UBC/UEL Updates Discussion

[mr.x]

But is a Regional Growth Strategy enforceable? Metro Vancouver has little power to regulate what municipalities do...municipalities have a priority and need to build up their tax base by promoting and allowing growth, and the regional competition between municipalities expands this growth even further. The only way any regional plan can be enforced is if the entire region amalgamates as one.

I say good on UBC, though I am quite concerned at what this housing development will do to future space availability for academic/school facilities. And we've also seen how market housing has affected school activities - the massive Arts County Fair was canceled partially because of residents in new nearby condos complaining about the noise from an event that happens once every year! And I also suppose that UBC's endowment is a bit limited, and it would rather increase its endowment by building vertical on the space it has today rather than resorting to cutting down more of Pacific Spirit. AND it's also another reason to build SkyTrain to the campus!

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Good on UBC, the other cities are continuously ignoring the Metro plan when it's in their convenience. Not surprised that Vancouver doesn't like increased traffic cutting thru it to get to somewhere else, ask New West about that.

Agreed. I'm glad that at least one municipality (ish) is doing the sensible thing responding to high prices by allowing lots of housing supply.

[andcarne]

Originally Posted by quobobo

Agreed. I'm glad that at least one municipality (ish) is doing the sensible thing responding to high prices by allowing lots of housing supply.

Except the problem is most of the housing they want to build is highly expensive market housing. Despite repeated requests from students, UBC refuses to set higher student housing targets, refuses to discuss the market housing slated for right next to the SUB (which arguably would have huge conflict in terms of noise and student activities), and in general ignores community input.

While increasing Faculty and student housing on campus is a great thing, that isn't whats being proposed.

Unfortunately there is no accountability mechanism at UBC, with meaningless consultation sessions where none of the input is actually used if it disagrees with Nancy's visions. It will be interesting to see how Metro's ministerial order plays out.

[golog]

How about this proposal:
- City of Vancouver agrees/supports UBC's proposal
- UBC merges with City of Vancouver
- Vancouver gets a bigger vote with Metro Vancouver / Translink
- Broadway-UBC grade separated transit line gets the green light

All of it goes ahead or none of it will

[whatnext]

Uh, welcome to Canada. Providing care to the sick here isn't bad luck, but you're always welcome to leave.


Angry Asian UBC condo owners to protest 'bad luck' hospice

[I]Dozens of angry Asian residents of a posh, University of B.C., highrise building aim to stage a placard-waving protest rally to protest a 15-bed hospice being planned next door.

“We cannot have dying people in our backyard,” said rally organizer Janet Fan, Wednesday “It’s a cultural taboo to us and we cannot be close to so many dying people. It’s like you open your door and step into a graveyard.”..

...Fan said 80 per cent of the residents of her 18-storey building are Asian and are strongly opposed.

“Units here are worth $1 million,” she added. “We put our life savings into this.”...

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/...#ixzz1AyNloHiV

[nova9]

Mod Edit: Let's not jump to labeling things without taking pause to consider the possible reasoning behind things like this.

[dreambrother808]

From a North American perspective, it's really hard to understand those kind of beliefs. It comes across as superstitious, as well as unfeeling and lacking in empathy.

[geoff's two cents]

I would expect a counter-protest by UBC students - Asian and otherwise - if this movement gains any traction. Fortunately, it's hard not to portray this in a demonizing light, so I doubt this will prompt any change in plans.

"She said residents are worried the hospice will have a negative impact on their property values": I would say that more or less dooms the protest from a media relations standpoint.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/...#ixzz1AyeFUv5q

[teriyaki]

This is a huge deal in the asian community at the moment.

IMO is not simply a matter of cultural differences, but the underhanded ness of the whole approach to the process.

Property values and/or cultural superstitions aside, I find it slightly dishonest that they revealed the plans to build this after all the deposits and buyers had been found (with no information on this whatsoever).

I am both a UBC student and of Asian descent so i've definitely heard rumblings on both sides of the fence already.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

This is a huge deal in the asian community at the moment.

IMO is not simply a matter of cultural differences, but the underhanded ness of the whole approach to the process.

Property values and/or cultural superstitions aside, I find it slightly dishonest that they revealed the plans to build this after all the deposits and buyers had been found (with no information on this whatsoever).

I am both a UBC student and of Asian descent so i've definitely heard rumblings on both sides of the fence already.

Maybe because here in Canada its a non issue. They can pack up and leave, they have plenty of money to enjoy their homeland where they can live among other people with similar views and beliefs. Personally I find their views disgusting and think this is perfect example of why immigration policies in this country need to be revamped to allow a more balanced influx of people and better assimilation. Canada is also one of the very few countries left in the world that allows people to buy their way in and does a poor job of keeping control on the amounts and origin of money flowing in for personal use. Foreign income is to be taxed but there is no system in place that can determine the origins of money coming in from the outside, this needs to be changed, and at the same time anyone immigrating to Canada needs to be taxed on what they bring in, its disgusting that this isnt done yet.

What the issue is with our immigration standards is that it has skewed the types of people coming in, there is a big difference between poor to low middle class and high middle class to rich, people part of the later group dont assimilate and dont build strong bonds in the country, among other problems. As a result you get problems such as this.

Canada needs to diversify its immigrant sources(countries and cultures it takes from), keep the immigration rate at a manageable level, put a hard and low cap on wealthy immigrants(investors), make it harder to obtain a citizenship and better differentiate between residents and citizens. Also marriage sponsorship and family sponsorship in this country is a joke the way it is handled by the government, there were some revisions in the last few years but they are far from enough. There needs to also be strict laws and enforced laws on immigration/sponsorship fraud and foreign income and the sources of foreign capital being brought in. This needs to be taxed and fraud needs to be punished criminally, and property seizure and deportation needs to be a norm not a exception. That means dont give out citizenship's like candy, give people time to live here, 10 years is pretty standard number out in the rest of the world(and you should be here for a minimum 6months of the year every calendar year during that time and have a valid explanations for any extended absences). There should also be enough of a budget to be able to properly check every immigrants and especially citizenship applicants background completely without leaving a rock unturned.

We will only start to see the problems of today's lax policies later in the future, this although not significant is a small glimpse in to the future of Canada. There are simply too many new immigrants not assimilating and building strong enough bonds to the country, the main cause of this is what I have described above.

And I say this as someone not born here and with a girlfriend who is not a citizen.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

This is a huge deal in the asian community at the moment.

IMO is not simply a matter of cultural differences, but the underhanded ness of the whole approach to the process.

Property values and/or cultural superstitions aside, I find it slightly dishonest that they revealed the plans to build this after all the deposits and buyers had been found (with no information on this whatsoever).

I am both a UBC student and of Asian descent so i've definitely heard rumblings on both sides of the fence already.

You'll find plenty of residents in Metro who have bought condos/homes only to find out later something they personally didn't like is going in beside them. When its a new highrise they're called NIMBYs, and there's no "culturally aware" reason these people should be called any better. If this kind of future development interferes with the superstitious claptrap someone chooses to cling to, all I can say to them is "suck it up cupcake"

Hopefully these disgusting people never have need of hospice care.

[Millennium2002]

I wish the residents didn't have to publicize their place of origin as a reason. It really sucks... for the rest of us now have to mop up the mess and straighten the matter out.

Now maybe it should be pointed out... I don't live near a "place of death", I'm somewhat assimilated or "westernized", I'm of a lower middle class family and my grandmother lives in Chinatown away from us (which I can't really understand myself as she's needs assistance)... but the main point is... for a person born here in Canada to Chinese parents, I see this as a non-issue. Yes it may be bad luck and all, but are people really willing to throw away their ancestors to avoid death like they vigorously claim? I doubt so. Heck, the communist PRC government is trying to make it a rule that grandparents must be visited by grandchildren... so wouldn't it be easier to pay your respects to them in that case? (shrug)

In addition, there's no completely conclusive proof that hospices will create "ghosts" which will indefinitely haunt the lot and therefore cause a decline in property values. Maybe the people inside have been watching too many documentaries on Discovery Channel about the phenomena occurring in other people's homes... but that only happens in a minority of cases and shouldn't happen here as long as everything is handled properly (and in most cases it is).

The only reason why I can see them bringing this up is because they want to defend their property values and feel that their voice would be better heard if they played the ethnicity and religion card as well.... both of which are despicable reasons for opposing a hospice. Unfortunately what was done has been done and the same method has now tarnished the reputation of people of Chinese and Asian descent and has increased the hatred against immigrants and their descendants like me.

Therefore, I should stress that the views of the residents do not necessarily represent everyone's (Chinese and other places of origin) views on the project, and criticism towards what they think should be directed only at them and them alone.

[paradigm4]

Canada does immigration better than anywhere else in the world. These are relatively minor issues in the entire scheme of things. The problem will be solved, people will settle down, and everyone will go back to living their regular lives. Blowing this out of proportion only intensifies an ethnic debate that we seriously do not need to be having.

All Canadians, except for Aboriginal peoples, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Don't forget that.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

Canada does immigration better than anywhere else in the world. These are relatively minor issues in the entire scheme of things. The problem will be solved, people will settle down, and everyone will go back to living their regular lives. Blowing this out of proportion only intensifies an ethnic debate that we seriously do not need to be having.

All Canadians, except for Aboriginal peoples, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Don't forget that.

If caving into hocus-pocus beliefs, whether they are Confucian, Islamic, or Catholic is "solving the problem", then this is very much a debate Canada needs to be having.

[Millennium2002]

Actually, most of the immigration tweaks proposed by cornholio seem reasonable to implement if not off-topic in this discussion. However, assimilation sticks out a bit like a thorn to me for some reason. Maybe more emphasis should be put in promoting an all-encompassing national identity that allows people to still retain some sense of diversity and uniqueness, much like say Singapore or something. In fact I think Canada used to do this before a lot but the government's efforts have seemingly waned considerably over the years.

[SpongeG]

it was on tv news wednesday they interviewed a few residents of the building all asian - and all said the same thing that its bad luck to live next to a building where people are dying in their culture

[Millennium2002]

(sigh)

well if that's something that should be forgotten... then I and others born here like me are leading the way already. It just takes some time and a bit of government intervention, much like when they tried to stop the death penalty (apparently before 2001 people still wanted it).

But again, I don't feel too great when people say that Asians do this and Asians do that... maybe the majority agrees, but a distinction still has to be made in my opinion for the minority that doesn't, especially in an issue as heated and charged as this.

[SpongeG]

no offense to anyone but the whole asian thing is bizarre to me they pay extra to live in a building that has an 8 in it, they leave the 4th floor in buildings, they follow these odd traditions - does it really make a difference to their lives?

does living in an 8 address really make em rich?

[Millennium2002]

There's just a lot of superstition out there. Even the Caucasian population has that... e.g. fear of the thirteenth and lucky dates in the calendar? (shrug)

The only thing that makes this stand out is that the people decided to publicize it in an an attempt to defend their lop-sided argument.

[SpongeG]

I get that

developers here have gone out of their way to appeal to many community beliefs/superstitions to sell so i don't see the big deal here when the residents say what they say in regards to the hospice

I myself would raise a stink if they said they were building a school next to me i for one hate kids and their noise