Zibi (Domtar Lands Redevelopment) | U/C

[citydwlr]

^ My question is why did these 47 delegates from the community voice their concerns now instead of over the past year. I think 98% of the people there were against the project. At least one person wanted the islands to be turned into parkland. Here's an image of what, I'm assuming Douglas Cardinal, has envisioned (bird's-eye view):


[Source]

This might be a dumb question, but they mentioned a few times in this meeting that they (NCC and/or the Asinabka) did not have the money to purchase the islands; but if it's unceded land that rightly belongs to the Asinabka, then why do they need to "purchase" it?

Also, another interesting comment from one of the delegates:

“You ought to really listen with your heart today,” Tico Medina tells planning, “because it will affect race relations in years to come.”

... no doubt. Things will get pretty heated if this passes at council...

[J.OT13]

Because another big ass park is what we need.

The lands in question are privately owned. They have been for over 200 years. The redevelopment will restore some of OTTAWA's history. You know, the history of how the area went from a small lumbering town, to the undisputed capital of timber to the Federal Capital. It will finally connect the downtowns of Ottawa and Hull.

As for the indigenous people who seem to think everything is "sacred"; the feds should give them Victoria Island to do with what they please (even throw in federal money for the indigenous centre if need be) and have them sign something that says they are not allowed to "claim" anymore land or dispute anymore developments in the Federal Capital Region.

[rocketphish]

Planning committee approves Chaudière, Albert islands rezoning despite objections

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 2, 2014, Last Updated: October 2, 2014 6:57 PM EDT

Windmill Development’s much-anticipated project for the old Domtar lands cleared a major hurdle after council’s planning committee unanimously approved the rezoning of the Chaudière and Albert islands, despite dozens of public delegations asking the city to preserve the lands as open space.

Over a period of four hours, more than 45 people — many of aboriginal descent — invoked Algonquin Chief William Commanda’s vision of a Circle of All Nations for the islands in asking councillors to keep the lands undeveloped. However, the contaminated property was recently sold to Windmill, which is planning an eco-friendly development of 1,200 homes, offices and retail spaces along with parkland on the islands.

Sylvia Hardy travelled from St. Marys, in southwestern Ontario, specifically for the planning committee.

“Why on Earth would I do that when I live so far away?” she said. “I was hoping (Windmill) would incorporate Grandfather (Commanda’s) vision.”

Many delegates made emotional pleas not to rezone the land.

“You ought to really listen with your heart today,” Tico Medina told the committee, “because it will affect race relations in years to come.”

The project was characterized as “presumptuous” and “invalid” because it is located on unceded Algonquin territory, which includes 36,000 square kilometres in eastern Ontario. Land claim negotiations between the Algonquins and the federal and provincial governments appear to be stalled. As well, Chaudière Falls is considered sacred by Algonquins and other First Nations peoples.

“We have 5,000 years of history on this site we have to consider,” says Jerry Longboat.

Windmill has been engaging with the Algonquins of Ontario (which did not send a spokesperson to Thursday’s planning meeting) as it moves ahead with its development.

“There are multiple voices here today,” said Jonathan Westeinde, Windmill’s managing partner. “As we’ve expressed, our door is open and we’d like to continue to have dialogue. But who we engage with, how we engage, is a difficult process and we’re engaging with the groups that we know are the quantified bodies that have a legitimate land claim on this property.”

Westeinde pointed out that the Algonquins of Ontario “aren’t fully onside,” but the two groups are talking about how to recognize the Algonquin’s heritage “and exactly what that means.” Other ideas being discussed include youth employment and small-business opportunities, said Westeinde. “It’s multi-pronged what that (vision) looks like — more so than just the physical features of what it looks like in recognizing their history.”

Victoria Island is not part of the redevelopment.

A number of councillors appeared reticent to approve the rezoning.

Coun. Diane Holmes, whose Somerset ward encompasses the islands and who has met Chief Commanda on a number of occasions, said that the eco-sensitive development would be “an exciting place, but not the place Grandfather Commanda dreamed of and so many others bought into for good reason.”

There was always a belief the federal government would take over those lands, said Holmes, but that never happened — instead the government sold the property.

Innes ward Coun. Rainer Bloess recognized this was much more than simply a construction project.

“I try to be pragmatic, I try to be realistic,” said Bloess, who said he was worried that if this project didn’t move ahead, nothing would happen on the lands for 20 or 30 years. “All around the world, cities are struggling with how to reconnect with the past.”

The rezoning will be considered by full council on Wednesday. The rezoning for the Gatineau side of the project will be considered at the end of the month. And it’s the less controversial northern shore of the lands — on the Quebec side — that will be redeveloped first, perhaps as early as next year, said Westeinde.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/1003-windmill

[waterloowarrior]

Over 300 pages of historical research and analysis in these development reports for those interested

Archaeological Resource Assessment (14 M)
http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Im...Assessment.PDF

Cultural Heritage Impact Statement; (5 M)
http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Im...0Statement.PDF

[1overcosc]

I'm not familiar with the Algonquin culture but I can say that in the Mohawk culture such a thing like Windmill is doing would be welcomed, because it's taking a contaminated industrial site and creating a sustainable site, thus bringing the place back into harmony with nature. The Mohawk were semi-sedentary and built villages, as opposed to the Algonquin who were nomadic, so it's possible that the Algonquin would not share this view as their culture might place higher value on total naturalization as a result.

[Urbanarchit]

I don't know if this has been said, but Windmill has partnered with Algonquin College on this project. They want to use it as a learning opportunities in the construction/ technology/ engineering programs, and have recommended students can get involved in this project.

For my program, this might involve us doing drafting and helping with design of buildings in class or with the company involved. I volunteered but haven't heard back from the co-ordinator, as this would be a perfect opportunity for me.

[S-Man]

I echo the poster who asked why, if every square inch of this site is sacred, are we only hearing protests at this point, so late in the game.
This project has been touted in the media for a year. There has been ample opportunity to approach Windmill, the city, the NCC, etc to voice concerns.

I used to believe that it was just Victoria Island (currently barely occupied, soon to be more culturally-sensitive than ever before) that was the sacred place. In fact, I never heard that it was sacred, just 'important'. If anything, the aboriginals (First Nations?) historically just used the falls as a wayfinding marker and maybe had a pow-wow once a year. Tribal warfare was such that you'd be sticking your neck out if you lingered around there for long.

Now the Island and everything near it is sacred? Is the Toilet Paper plant lands on the Hull shoreline sacred? Is the War Museum/Claridge condo sit sacred? What abut the Hydro Quebec and Hydro Ottawa dams/generating stations? How far away from Victoria Island do we have to go to not be in sacred land?

Victoria Island (which Theresa Spence and supporters were allowed to occupy for weeks during which time she retired to the Delta City Centre at night) will still be a gathering place for all cultures, especially aboriginals, under this plan. And, it will open up the falls to all residents of the country. Currently, there's a fence and guards.

What is being destroyed here?

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I echo the poster who asked why, if every square inch of this site is sacred, are we only hearing protests at this point, so late in the game.
This project has been touted in the media for a year. There has been ample opportunity to approach Windmill, the city, the NCC, etc to voice concerns.

I used to believe that it was just Victoria Island (currently barely occupied, soon to be more culturally-sensitive than ever before) that was the sacred place. In fact, I never heard that it was sacred, just 'important'. If anything, the aboriginals (First Nations?) historically just used the falls as a wayfinding marker and maybe had a pow-wow once a year. Tribal warfare was such that you'd be sticking your neck out if you lingered around there for long.

Now the Island and everything near it is sacred? Is the Toilet Paper plant lands on the Hull shoreline sacred? Is the War Museum/Claridge condo sit sacred? What abut the Hydro Quebec and Hydro Ottawa dams/generating stations? How far away from Victoria Island do we have to go to not be in sacred land?

Victoria Island (which Theresa Spence and supporters were allowed to occupy for weeks during which time she retired to the Delta City Centre at night) will still be a gathering place for all cultures, especially aboriginals, under this plan. And, it will open up the falls to all residents of the country. Currently, there's a fence and guards.

What is being destroyed here?

I agree with your sentiment that it seems like this is just an excuse to oppose this development. But I can understand why they might consider the islands sacred - mostly because of the falls.

I don't know about Native religions and reverence of nature, but it might be similar to Japan's autochthonous religion - Shinto. Most things, animate or inanimate, have a spirit. Many, such as forests, mountains, rivers, have guardians or gods, which people revere. They build shrines or little monuments where they can pray and give offerings of food to please or thank them.

I wonder if there's a similar reason to that regarding the falls.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I echo the poster who asked why, if every square inch of this site is sacred, are we only hearing protests at this point, so late in the game.
This project has been touted in the media for a year. There has been ample opportunity to approach Windmill, the city, the NCC, etc to voice concerns.

This isn't last minute opposition. The groups involved have been speaking up over the last while http://asinabka.com/documents.htm and at all the previous meetings
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=117
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=239

The meeting today was the official public meeting to have all these concerns on the record.

[S-Man]

So, what does the city/Windmill do?

What is everyone on this forum willing to do to appease/oppose the protesters?

I'm curious, given what exists there now, and what has existed there for the past 160 years, what the final solution should be.

[J.OT13]

In "Le Droit" today, they were mentioning how the aboriginals view the Domtar Lands as their "Church, Synagogue, Temple, Mosque" and that it would be a shot against their religious rights to redeveloped. I'm not gonna go to say, Montreal and protest against a development at the site of a church that was torn down 200 years ago. No one has been doing sacred dances (if ever) in front of a paper mill in the past 160-200 years I'm sure.

They were also arguing that if money is an issue, Commanda's vision of a giant park would bring huge economic opportunities in the form of tourism, as opposed to a billion dollar development that will give everyone access to the long blocked off waterfront and restore our industrial relics.

Oh, and get this; Commanda's vision could make way for a UNESCO World Heritage Site. Anyone ever seen a historic industrial area demolished and replaced with trees become a UNESCO site? Didn't think so.

We have enough bland green space with trails. This is our opportunity for a game changing visionary urban project. They can do whatever they want with Victoria Island (as long as the Carbide Mill is preserved), but the E.B. Eddy lands should be an urban experience, not another park.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We have enough bland green space with trails. This is our opportunity for a game changing visionary urban project. They can do whatever they want with Victoria Island (as long as the Carbide Mill is preserved), but the E.B. Eddy lands should be an urban experience, not another park.

I Could not agree more!

You summed it all up quite well.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by S-Man

So, what does the city/Windmill do?

What is everyone on this forum willing to do to appease/oppose the protesters?

I'm curious, given what exists there now, and what has existed there for the past 160 years, what the final solution should be.

I am willing to buy a condo there

[waterloowarrior]

Approved

[bikegypsy]

This will be a huge game changer for downtown Ottawa and downtown Gatineau as well. It will pave the way for riverfront development and will help raise the profile of LeBreton as Ottawa's new downtown district.

[J.OT13]

I'm a little worried though. The timeline for this seems very ambitious considering how slow the market currently is. Plus, the heritage buildings are near the end of the redevelopment list which makes me fear we might loose a few of them (though I understand they need to generate revenue with new, large scale buildings before working on the heritage ones, which will likely end up as a break even at best).

[OTSkyline]

Have they ever announced the "official" name of this development yet? I remember there was a contest this summer to name the project. I entered... and would kind of like to know my prize

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Because another big ass park is what we need.

As for the indigenous people who seem to think everything is "sacred"; the feds should give them Victoria Island to do with what they please (even throw in federal money for the indigenous centre if need be) and have them sign something that says they are not allowed to "claim" anymore land or dispute anymore developments in the Federal Capital Region.

Ya, "those people" are so annoying and always seem to get in the way of a good condo development. Yikes.

What you're conveniently forgetting is that the white man is the foreigner on this land (and that means ALL the land) whose only claim to it was through brute force and genocide. While we can't undo the horrors of the past, we can at least be respectful. (From a non First Nations citizen.)

[Temperance]

If the islands were traditionally used by indigenous peoples then they absolutely have a moral (and possibly legal) right to meaningful consultation. Of course many people now live in Canada and there is a balancing of rights and interests which must occur. Nonetheless the perspective of indigenous people on the development must be taken into consideration.

Ultimately I do think the Windmill plan is a good one which should go forward. I hope that Windmill will make a contribution towards the establishment of an aboriginal centre on Victoria Island and also ensure adequate public access to the falls.

Given the relative high density of development occurring Chaudiere and Albert I think it makes sense to emphasize green space and lower density development on the other islands. Perhaps the central and eastern halves of Victoria could have parkland, an indigenous centre, and a conflict resolution centre (as called for in Commanda's proposal), while the western parts of Victoria could have a main street with some smaller scale condos and retail? There is a bit of condo/construction fetishization on SSP. But development should be thoughtful and balanced.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Temperance

Ultimately I do think the Windmill plan is a good one which should go forward. I hope that Windmill will make a contribution towards the establishment of an aboriginal centre on Victoria Island and also ensure adequate public access to the falls.

Given the relative high density of development occurring Chaudiere and Albert I think it makes sense to emphasize green space and lower density development on the other islands. Perhaps the central and eastern halves of Victoria could have parkland, an indigenous centre, and a conflict resolution centre (as called for in Commanda's proposal), while the western parts of Victoria could have a main street with some smaller scale condos and retail? There is a bit of condo/construction fetishization on SSP. But development should be thoughtful and balanced.

Unless it's a section 37 thing, Windmill won't be the ones building the centre on Victoria Island because they don't own that land, as it's the NCC who possesses it. If the Native Centre is built it'll be through the federal government.

And this project has been given a lot of thought and is quite well-balanced.