VIA Rail network developments

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

CN recently made major concessions to Metrolinx over the track through Brampton and Georgetown (disputes over this track was the primary obstacle to GO RER service to Brampton/Kitchener) reportedly because Queen's Park worked behind the scenes to lobby the federal government to put a lot of pressure on CN.

???

"The province will be seeking support from the Government of Canada to construct the new rail corridor and enable transformational changes in shifting freight rail operations to allow for increased transit choices."

The major concession is they agreed to have new infrastructure built for them at the Government's expense.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

???

"The province will be seeking support from the Government of Canada to construct the new rail corridor and enable transformational changes in shifting freight rail operations to allow for increased transit choices."

The major concession is they agreed to have new infrastructure built for them at the Government's expense.

And CN was very heavily opposed to the 407 freight bypass for many years due to the way it would change access routes to their railyards & PU/DO points, even though public funding has always been on the table for it. Notably, CP is still opposed to Mississauga's "Missing Link Proposal" for a second 407 corridor for CP trains to divert freight traffic off the Milton route.

CN will be more than happy to move to a brand new track with sidings, built at public expense, that shifts all kinds of maintenance and operations liabilities off their books. It's getting CN & CP to share the Belleville Sub between Belleville and Pickering that's going to be hard.

[Norman Bates]

There's a report of a freight derailment at smiths falls that is preventing via to reach Ottawa.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...ment-1.3692033

No idea how this could happen as I thought via owned the track from Brockville to côteau.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

No idea how this could happen as I thought via owned the track from Brockville to côteau.

No.....VIA must still pass through a short section of CPR owned track in CP’s Smiths Falls yard between the VIA owned track from Ottawa and the former CP now VIA Brockville Subdivision.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZsMiRgz4M142

(Trivia: A VIA train westbound from Ottawa to Toronto is actually running eastbound on CP track passing through the former Smiths Falls Station)

[acottawa]

I finally found some information about the proposed route:

http://transport-action-ontario.com/...rt-2015-12.pdf

Transport Action seems to think the proposal follows the CP track for a while and then connects to the line through peterborough (which I believe LRTfriend has been suggesting).

[1overcosc]

^ That is the most definitive statement about routing we've yet seen, albeit not straight from VIA's mouth.

Contrary to what some may have gathered from my previous posts, I actually do support the Peterborough option, as it offers the fastest potential travel time as well as an easier upgrade path to full HSR; I've just doubted that VIA would actually plan to use it given the higher costs and more lead time to develop.

[canabiz]

On the topic of VIA, the Greenbank underpass is partially open to traffic (2 lanes). I believe the rest should be open by the end of the year or early next year.

Next up is Strandherd underpass and it's about time as I see incredible growth in this area in the new couple of years.

[eternallyme]

Is there an old railway corridor roughly paralleling Highway 15 between Smiths Falls and Kingston? It would help ease the time issue while serving some of the key communities along the lakeshore.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by canabiz

On the topic of VIA, the Greenbank underpass is partially open to traffic (2 lanes). I believe the rest should be open by the end of the year or early next year.

Next up is Strandherd underpass and it's about time as I see incredible growth in this area in the new couple of years.

I think that starts next year? And isn't it an overpass with Strandherd rising over the tracks?

I'd say Merivale would be next after that (and I believe it will be a virtually identical underpass on a similar skew), since that is a fairly straightforward underpass on a high-speed section of track (and Merivale could use widening there too). Fallowfield, Woodroffe and the Transitway are badly needed for grade separations but they have logistical challenges.

Jockvale Road would be the remaining urban at-grade crossing on the Nepean section and IMO it is the lowest priority, since it isn't a major arterial.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Is there an old railway corridor roughly paralleling Highway 15 between Smiths Falls and Kingston? It would help ease the time issue while serving some of the key communities along the lakeshore.

I don't think so. The K&P Rail Trail follows the old railway between Kingston and Pembrooke, but that went pretty far west of Ottawa.

[canabiz]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I think that starts next year? And isn't it an overpass with Strandherd rising over the tracks?

I'd say Merivale would be next after that (and I believe it will be a virtually identical underpass on a similar skew), since that is a fairly straightforward underpass on a high-speed section of track (and Merivale could use widening there too). Fallowfield, Woodroffe and the Transitway are badly needed for grade separations but they have logistical challenges.

Jockvale Road would be the remaining urban at-grade crossing on the Nepean section and IMO it is the lowest priority, since it isn't a major arterial.

You are right, it will be an overpass for Strandherd and the work is expected to commence between 2020 and 2025, according to this article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...o-close-monday

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Is there an old railway corridor roughly paralleling Highway 15 between Smiths Falls and Kingston? It would help ease the time issue while serving some of the key communities along the lakeshore.

Nope.

Every HSR study has noted the need to build such a railway corridor. The idea even has a name; it's called the "Gananoque cutoff". It would be expensive and difficult to build as it would pass through territory that is both environmentally sensitive (full of wetlands, lakes, forests...) AND full of cottages (thus raising NIMBY anger). It's probably the single most difficult part of the entire hypothetical Windsor-London-Toronto-Kingston-Ottawa-Montreal HSR route.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by canabiz

On the topic of VIA, the Greenbank underpass is partially open to traffic (2 lanes). I believe the rest should be open by the end of the year or early next year.

Next up is Strandherd underpass and it's about time as I see incredible growth in this area in the new couple of years.

One thing I've noticed about the Greenbank underpass is how wide it is. It could easily accommodate a second track.. in fact, it looks like it could accommodate as many as 3-4 railway tracks. This is an important thing to protect for, as if we ever want to build rapid transit into Barrhaven on the VIA corridor, we'll need at least 3 tracks.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

One thing I've noticed about the Greenbank underpass is how wide it is. It could easily accommodate a second track.. in fact, it looks like it could accommodate as many as 3-4 railway tracks. This is an important thing to protect for, as if we ever want to build rapid transit into Barrhaven on the VIA corridor, we'll need at least 3 tracks.

I believe most of the rail crossings of the central corridor (and the lightly used corridor going west) can accommodate 2 tracks, with the exception of the Prince of Wales underpass and the Rideau River bridge. The former is likely to be replaced soon, and the latter would be quite expensive to reconstruct. That bridge would likely need 3 tracks if it is going to be used for commuter purposes as well.

Inside the Greenbelt, there are only three at-grade road crossings of the VIA track (plus a couple pedestrian crossings) - at Merivale, Pleasant Park and Michael Street. Pleasant Park would likely need to be closed to remove that crossing, since there is no reasonable grade separation possible, and Michael could probably be closed as well with traffic diverted to St. Laurent as traffic volumes likely don't warrant the cost. Pedestrian bridges could remain in those two locations though.

[eternallyme]

The Greenbank underpass structure is only one track, but it would be very easy to twin for additional tracks given the space available and structure type.

Now that I look at it, there is only room for one track on the crossings of Prince of Wales (to be replaced), the Rideau River (may need replacing?), Walkley Road, Airport Parkway, Heron Road, the Southeast Transitway and Bank Street.

Heron and Bank would likely be the toughest to twin/widen, as both are in fairly constrained settings with concrete structures that cannot easily be widened. Both are in good condition as well (I believe they were both built in the early 1990s concurrent with the Southeast Transitway - the Bank underpass replaced one similar to Prince of Wales, while Heron I believe was a level crossing previously) so that would really be a big throw-away if they need to be replaced...talk about short sighted planning!

[eternallyme]

As for the Merivale underpass, most likely (I would think) Macfarlane will have to be used as the detour routing, with a temporary level crossing about 30m east of where it is now. Capital Drive would likely need to be closed permanently (access from Grenfell) and the entrance to Eastway and the car wash relocated permanently as well (a small part of their property would need to be used for the detour route as well).

Given the alignment of the temporary Macfarlane intersection, left turns from SB Merivale to EB Macfarlane would need to be prohibited, with buses on revised routes (157 in reverse, 116 via Amberwood). Once the underpass is built, Macfarlane would be able to come back to where it is now.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't think so. The K&P Rail Trail follows the old railway between Kingston and Pembrooke, but that went pretty far west of Ottawa.

The Kingston and Pembroke Railway ran from Kingston to Renfrew via Sharbot Lake and Calabogie. The still present station on the waterfront in downtown Kingston was the southern terminus of this railway when it was active. It crossed the CP line between Perth and Peterborough at Sharbot Lake and the active CP Main line at Tichborne, which isn't a lot south of Sharbot Lake. Of course, the entire line is abandoned. I don't know how much of the right of way is still present in Kingston although as far as I know, Highway 401 still has an overpass at the old rail crossing.

[waterloowarrior]

I thought the Cataraqui Trail follows an old rail line to Smiths Falls. It connects to the K&P just north of Kingston in Harrowsmith.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I thought the Cataraqui Trail follows an old rail line to Smiths Falls. It connects to the K&P just north of Kingston in Harrowsmith.

Yes, that is true as well. Just checking the K&P right of way and a small section near Highway 401 and Sir John A MacDonald Blvd is no longer in tact. It appears that an industrial park and the Sir John A. MacDonald interchange were built over the right of way. This is where the K&P line used to connect up to the current VIA rail line and not far from the Kingston VIA station. However there is an wide open area between the right of way and the active VIA line just east of the station that could be used to reconnect the line.

I do see advantages of operating two completely separate lines otherwise some cities will inevitably be cut off from VIA service completely. If the higher speed route goes through Kingston, it will render service east of Kingston along the St. Lawrence through Brockville and Cornwall unviable.

[1overcosc]

The former K&P route is mostly intact through Kingston's urban area. The route is protected for a planned parkway-like road that's been the books for decades but never seems to get built (kind of like that Alta Vista corridor in Ottawa...). Notably, because this route is protected and owned by the City of Kingston, it remains possible to restore passenger service into the downtown core of Kingston with a station at Doug Fluhrer Park.

If HFR/HSR ends up using the Peterborough route and the Lakeshore route is left as a local service, VIA should pursue moving the Kingston station downtown, IMO. Would dramatically increase the utility of the station here and only add a few minutes of travel time.. and thanks to the preserved corridor, would not be expensive to build at all.