Canadian Retail Thread

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When Loblaw's bought Zehrs, they not only retained the name but I think opened additional supermarkets in central southwestern Ontario under the Zehrs name. On the other hand, when Sobeys took over the old Dutch Boy supermarkets in Kitchener, they eventually rebranded them as Sobeys. That was a bit of a risk as the common perception at the time was that K-W shoppers would not patronize a grocery that was not "local" (there was a long history of national chains trying unsuccessfully to penetrate the local market). It seems that perception was not entirely accurate, as the Sobey's continue to operate here (although Zehrs dominates the local market, it seems to me).

In the case of Safeway, I wonder Sobeys won't be obliged to change the name, given the Safeway name in the States? I guess it will depend on what they negotiated in the purchase. Where both Sobey's and Safeway already exist, I suppose stores could be rebranded with some of Sobeys other company banners.

Interesting read regarding Zehrs. Re-branding is always a tricky thing to get right. You risk alienating your customer base in an attempt to create a strong uniform brand across all regions. I still miss 'Dominion'. That brand was one of my earliest images of Canada when I landed in Halifax aged 11.

I still associate that brand closely with Canada although my association is not one others will have. Massey-Ferguson and Consumers Distributing are 2 others I continue to miss.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Sounds like executives of Loblaws failed 'Business 101': know your market, never assume what works at home will work everywhere.

Except that Quebec is a province like all the others, doncha know. We've been told that repeatedly since 1990-92. It's a mindset that has penetrated even some corporate boardrooms it seems!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Sobeys is affiliated with Aeroplan, not air miles. They have crazy promotions for Aeroplan points!

Sobeys is very definitely associated with Air Miles in Atlantic Canada. If they are not associated elsewhere, it must have to do with some exclusivity clause in the contract that they signed with the travel miles partner. If Air Miles was already associated with Safeway in the west, then perhaps Sobeys was barred from having the same program in their own stores in that particular market area....

[vid]

In the West, Safeway has exclusive rights to Airmiles, so Sobeys uses Aeroplan as an alternate.

[Loco101]

Northern Ontario is sort of where the Eastern and Western influences meet.

In Timmins we have Quebec influences in a lot of businesses:

-two Metro stores back in the 1980s. They got renamed to Loeb but then the former A&P and a former Loeb became Metros.

-a Super C for awhile but it is now Food Basics.

North Bay:

-has had a Sobey's since the 1990s.

Sault Ste. Marie:

-had a Safeway during the 1980s and early 1990s.

Thunder Bay, Fort Frances, Dryden and Kenora

-still have Safeway stores

Thunder Bay and Kenora

-have the only Wholesale Club in the province (western based Loblaws owned chain)

T-Bay:
-also has Real Canadian Superstore

-westernmost Metro stores

Dryden, Marathon and Geraldton

-have Western based but Loblaws owned Extra Foods

Sudbury

-has a Real Canadian Superstore (Only Loblaws corporate owned store that I know of in NE Ont unless you count the National Grocers Cash and Carry Wholesale locations)

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Except that Quebec is a province like all the others, doncha know. We've been told that repeatedly since 1990-92. It's a mindset that has penetrated even some corporate boardrooms it seems!

It's all relative. Canadian provinces are very similar from one to the next compared to a US state or another country; you know you're in Canada instantly. That said, there's bound to be variation from region to region in a nation wider than the Atlantic Ocean.

Even within a province one finds variation when it comes to brands people are loyal to.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's all relative. Canadian provinces are very similar from one to the next compared to a US state or another country; you know you're in Canada instantly. That said, there's bound to be variation from region to region in a nation wider than the Atlantic Ocean.

Even within a province one finds variation when it comes to brands people are loyal to.

I would have thought that most of what makes the Quebec market different had been pretty well identified over the years. Maybe it was just one of the (many) memos that Loblaws didn't seem to be getting for a while there.....

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I would have thought that most of what makes the Quebec market different had been pretty well identified over the years. Maybe it was just one of the (many) memos that Loblaws didn't seem to be getting for a while there.....

And the Maritime market is different from the Ontario market, and the Western Canadian market is different again.

[Loco101]

The Northern Ontario market is different than the market in Southern Ontario.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The Northern Ontario market is different than the market in Southern Ontario.

In what regards? I wonder whether there aren't differences between Northeastern and Northwestern Ontario as well?

[SpongeG]

COSTCO TO OPEN 25 MORE CANADIAN STORES

Costco plans on opening as many as 25 more Canadian stores. New stores will open in Ontario and several Western Canadian provinces. Metro areas targeted for new stores include Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg. Selected communities in Alberta and Saskatchewan will also be considered.

....

http://www.retail-insider.com/

SEARS CANADA SELLS ITS YORKDALE AND SQUARE ONE STORE LEASES

Update: Oxford Properties purchased the Yorkdale and Square One leases for $191 million. Stores will close in March, 2014. Oxford also paid Sears $1 million for the option of buying-out the 230,000+ square foot Scarborough Town Centre Sears lease for $53 million. That closure could happen within the next 5 years. [Press Release]

...

http://www.retail-insider.com/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's all relative. Canadian provinces are very similar from one to the next compared to a US state or another country; you know you're in Canada instantly. That said, there's bound to be variation from region to region in a nation wider than the Atlantic Ocean.

Even within a province one finds variation when it comes to brands people are loyal to.

It's the classic Canadian debate - is Quebec really *more* different? My sense after living more than half my life in the ROC (almost like an anglo) and close to the other half in Quebec is that it is quite a bit *more* different.

There are even little things that are apparent when living in a two-province metro. If you go for breakfast in Ottawa all of the baskets with jam, etc. will have marmelade. Like they will in Red Deer and Glace Bay. In Gatineau they don't. But in Gatineau they all have Grenache Caramel, just like they do in Montreal, Baie-Comeau and Gaspé. But in Ottawa they don't.

OK, in Shawville, Quebec they probably have marmelade, and in St-Quentin, New Brunswick I betcha they have Grenache Caramel. But these are only minor exceptions that confirm the rule.

Another example, some time ago on a day that was a holiday in Quebec (all grocery stores closed) but not in Ontario my wife went grocery shopping in Ottawa. Among other things she was looking for was stuff for a Swiss-style raclette. Well, she couldn't find the requisite cheese anywhere in Ottawa grocery stores. In Quebec, you can even get it at Costco and Wal-Mart. Same goes for merguez North African sausages - nope. She had to go to specialized international cheese and butcher shops to find them. Whereas in Quebec even most small-town grocery stores have this stuff. (Of course, there is stuff in Ottawa grocery stores you can't find in Gatineau as well - like Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup for some reason...)

Other interesting examples:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547758/posts

http://www.radio-canada.ca/actualite/v2/lepicerie/niveau2_5435.shtml#

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's the classic Canadian debate - is Quebec really *more* different? My sense after living more than half my life in the ROC (almost like an anglo) and close to the other half in Quebec is that it is quite a bit *more* different.

There are even little things that are apparent when living in a two-province metro. If you go for breakfast in Ottawa all of the baskets with jam, etc. will have marmelade. Like they will in Red Deer and Glace Bay. In Gatineau they don't. But in Gatineau they all have Grenache Caramel, just like they do in Montreal, Baie-Comeau and Gaspé. But in Ottawa they don't.

OK, in Shawville, Quebec they probably have marmelade, and in St-Quentin, New Brunswick I betcha they have Grenache Caramel. But these are only minor exceptions that confirm the rule.

Another example, some time ago on a day that was a holiday in Quebec (all grocery stores closed) but not in Ontario my wife went grocery shopping in Ottawa. Among other things she was looking for was stuff for a Swiss-style raclette. Well, she couldn't find the requisite cheese anywhere in Ottawa grocery stores. In Quebec, you can even get it at Costco and Wal-Mart. Same goes for merguez North African sausages - nope. She had to go to specialized international cheese and butcher shops to find them. Whereas in Quebec even most small-town grocery stores have this stuff. (Of course, there is stuff in Ottawa grocery stores you can't find in Gatineau as well - like Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup for some reason...)

Other interesting examples:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547758/posts

http://www.radio-canada.ca/actualite/v2/lepicerie/niveau2_5435.shtml#

Quebec has always had a sweeter tooth and a greater appetite for fats than most of the rest of the country (although growing up in Waterloo County, that is hard for me to accept!). The preference for ale over lager used to be another distinction, as was the preference for gin over whiskey, in both cases for historical reasons going back to the original brewers and distillers. The interest in ethnic foods will vary across the country for obvious reasons. I think you can get cookies in Latin America with "manjar" (dulce de leche?) spread between two unsanctified hosts. As a lapsed Presbyterian, I don't know whether to laugh or to be horrified at the thought of the Catholic host being peddled as a snack food. It sure has shock value!

The jam vs caramel thing reminds me of how often in the USA I've received grape jelly with my breakfast. How can they!?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In what regards? I wonder whether there aren't differences between Northeastern and Northwestern Ontario as well?

Different lifestyles in most of Northern Ontario means different meals and tastes. We tend to not have locally grown food in large quantities and agriculture exists is only in certain regions for example Temiskaming. People here tend to not eat the wide variety of things you see in Southern Ontario. I realize our market size is much smaller but even small Southern Ontario towns tend to have more than our cities.

Northern Ontario has different cultural influences. Southern Ontario has more British and American influences compared to here and of course more recent immigrant influences in some cities.

Is there a difference between Northeastern and Northwestern Ontario? I'd say somewhat but overall not too much. The French-Canadian culture is more influential in the Northeast of course. Can't really speak for the Northwest because I rarely go there.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's the classic Canadian debate - is Quebec really *more* different? My sense after living more than half my life in the ROC (almost like an anglo) and close to the other half in Quebec is that it is quite a bit *more* different.

There are even little things that are apparent when living in a two-province metro. If you go for breakfast in Ottawa all of the baskets with jam, etc. will have marmelade. Like they will in Red Deer and Glace Bay. In Gatineau they don't. But in Gatineau they all have Grenache Caramel, just like they do in Montreal, Baie-Comeau and Gaspé. But in Ottawa they don't.

OK, in Shawville, Quebec they probably have marmelade, and in St-Quentin, New Brunswick I betcha they have Grenache Caramel. But these are only minor exceptions that confirm the rule.

Another example, some time ago on a day that was a holiday in Quebec (all grocery stores closed) but not in Ontario my wife went grocery shopping in Ottawa. Among other things she was looking for was stuff for a Swiss-style raclette. Well, she couldn't find the requisite cheese anywhere in Ottawa grocery stores. In Quebec, you can even get it at Costco and Wal-Mart. Same goes for merguez North African sausages - nope. She had to go to specialized international cheese and butcher shops to find them. Whereas in Quebec even most small-town grocery stores have this stuff. (Of course, there is stuff in Ottawa grocery stores you can't find in Gatineau as well - like Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup for some reason...)

In Timmins, ON it really depends who is running/managing the store for what the store carries.

And as I've said before, the vast majority of people in Timmins are from French-Canadian background or partly from it.

Raclette cheese has become more popular but is only available consistently at Lévis' Foodland and sometimes at Metro and Independent Grocer. The other 4 or 5 grocery stores don't carry it.

I don't recall seeing marmalade in Timmins restaurants recently but maybe a few have it but I doubt it. But I have definitely seen Grenache at a bunch and it sells well in grocery stores.


Some other observations about grocery shopping here:

-Pepsi outsells Coke (just like in QC and Atlantic provinces)

-Vachon cakes are big sellers

-you see Chinese/meat fondue products for sale

-you see Sugar Pie (Tarte au sucre) and tourtière (meat pie) for sale everywhere and often made in store

-St-Hubert grocery store products are big sellers

-les cretons are available at most grocers

-cheese curds are popular (especially to make poutine) and are also made in NE Ontario by Thornloe Cheese.

-we can get many Quebec brands of cheese

-pea soup is very popular


One thing I never knew about growing up here is what Peameal bacon (or backbacon) is. I ate it for the first time when visiting relatives in London, ON.

[SpongeG]

back bacon aka Canadian bacon wasn't that common out here growing up, i still don't know many places that would serve it other than on pizza

[Boris2k7]

I've had Canadian bacon on a burger once, but that's about all I've ever seen of it. It's like bagged milk... one of those weird things I only ever see when I'm in Ontario.

...

Slow news week, but Save-On is moving back into the Calgary market (note: not the first time we've had Save-On here) and Mountain Equipment Co-op changing their name to MEC (AFAIK, everyone called it that anyways) and removing the mountain from their logo in favour of a green box (oh my!).

[Monctoncore]

You can get the Grenache Caramel in Moncton and surrounding areas with your breakfast, I have had it at 5 different restaurants locally owned and chains and the Irving Big Stops also have it with breakfast.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

You can get the Grenache Caramel in Moncton and surrounding areas with your breakfast, I have had it at 5 different restaurants locally owned and chains and the Irving Big Stops also have it with breakfast.

It's also available in most grocery stores in eastern Ontario including Ottawa but for some reason it's rare at breakfast restaurants in Ottawa, even in the east end in places like Orleans which have more francophones.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I don't recall seeing marmalade in Timmins restaurants recently but maybe a few have it but I doubt it. .

Our Timmins relatives who are Franco-Ontarians (most of them older folks) all have marmalade on their toast for breakfast. They actually get teased about
it by their Quebec relatives who find this odd and say it's a British trait that has rubbed off on them from living so long in Ontario.