Burnaby Updates

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by vanman

I posted this before but I'll post it again. Not sure why everyone is wildy speculating about Metrtotown mall when Ivanhoe Cambridge itself has already stated the direction they will be going.

From a link posted earlier than yours on this very same thread:-

https://www.burnabynow.com/news/burn...ver-1.23988651


Relevant part in bold (emphasis mine):-

"The City of Burnaby is forging ahead with a plan to create a downtown core from scratch. The process will eventually see many new highrises, plazas, parks and streets built to replace the Metropolis at Metrotown shopping centre – but Canada’s third-busiest mall isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
.....

If approved, planning staff will begin working with developer Ivanhoe Cambridge on a plan that could take 80 years or longer to fully implement.
......
But that day is long off.

"Over the next 10 years, relatively little will change", says Graeme Silvera, Ivanhoe’s vice president of development and retail.

People talking about development starting in 5 years or even 10 years, I don't know where they're getting their information from.

80 years is a long time.
As in,... a (relatively healthy) person's entire lifetime, 'long time'.
I believe there's eventually going to be changes and upgrades to the site.
More residential towers; possible event centers; phased renovations and upgrades.....
But nothing to the degree that most people here are imagining or wishing for.
At least not within most of our lifetimes.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It was 3 malls. There's Station Square (which has always been separate and is being redeveloped) and then Eatons Centre and Metrotown Centre, which merged into one about 15 years ago (when the last major upgrade was done). Also about the only 'official' people talking about redeveloping the main section of the mall work for the city.

Sears also was a separate mall

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Sears also was a separate mall

That was Metrotown Centre - which is the old Sears warehouse. The 2nd phase added the diagonal wing with Hudson's Bay.

[giallo]

An interview with Burnaby's mayor on affordable housing.

• Video Link

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

From a link posted earlier than yours on this very same thread:-

https://www.burnabynow.com/news/burn...ver-1.23988651


Relevant part in bold (emphasis mine):-




People talking about development starting in 5 years or even 10 years, I don't know where they're getting their information from.

80 years is a long time.
As in,... a (relatively healthy) person's entire lifetime, 'long time'.
I believe there's eventually going to be changes and upgrades to the site.
More residential towers; possible event centers; phased renovations and upgrades.....
But nothing to the degree that most people here are imagining or wishing for.
At least not within most of our lifetimes.

There is also a heck of a lot of land and surface parking space near and or around the area of the mall that are easier and should be redeveloped before the mall gets redeveloped. I just hope to be alive to see some of this in action.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

There is also a heck of a lot of land and surface parking space near and or around the area of the mall that are easier and should be redeveloped before the mall gets redeveloped. I just hope to be alive to see some of this in action.

The entire idea of "making it like downtown vancouver" by adding streets and making it not a covered mall any more is insane.

There should not be ANY "Streets added", because all that removes the cohesiveness of the site. This is a wet climate, and people are not going to go to a destination that leaves them exposed to the elements.

Malls are dying in the US because they built too many of them with a lot of the same stores. Metropolis is not an American mall by any means, as the Ivanhoe Cambridge has said, it's a very productive asset.

Like the only thing that they could do to the mall that wouldn't render it completely useless and unattractive would be to move the "mall" towards the edges of the property by getting rid of the surface parking, and making the new mall sections the podium for office/rentals. There's nothing wrong with making better use of the outside surface area of the mall, which is the only aspect I liked from the development plan, but the way the plan was shown basically destroys the property entirely.

[SpongeG]

we'll all be dead by the time it's even close to being done in 80 years. A heck of a lot can change in 10 years, look how much our lives have changed since 2010 alone.

For all we know Vancouver in 80 years could have no rainy climate. Its predicted by 2050 Vancouver will have San Franciscos climate.

[phesto]

The rezoning app for Anthem's project at Central & Wilson in Metrotown shows the tower will be 44 storeys / 464 ft.

https://eagenda.burnaby.ca/sirepub/c...9101203367.pdf

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

we'll all be dead by the time it's even close to being done in 80 years. A heck of a lot can change in 10 years, look how much our lives have changed since 2010 alone.

For all we know Vancouver in 80 years could have no rainy climate. Its predicted by 2050 Vancouver will have San Franciscos climate.

That prediction assumes SoCal droughts in the summer and India monsoons in the fall - that's six months in need of climate control.

At any rate, planning a city centre based on a 30-year weather forecast doesn't seem like a good idea. Best to have a versatile mix of open and enclosed spaces.

[Vin]

Or they can just choose the new downtown somewhere else in Metrotown. It's a really simple thing to do.

[logan5]

The idea is to rid Burnaby of that giant tumor that is Metrotown Mall.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

The idea is to rid Burnaby of that giant tumor that is Metrotown Mall.

Wrong choice of wording there. Not a tumour, but rather, the Golden Goose of Metrotown. Even Ivanhoe Cambridge attests to that as per Kisai's comments:

Originally Posted by Kisai

The entire idea of "making it like downtown vancouver" by adding streets and making it not a covered mall any more is insane.

There should not be ANY "Streets added", because all that removes the cohesiveness of the site. This is a wet climate, and people are not going to go to a destination that leaves them exposed to the elements.

Malls are dying in the US because they built too many of them with a lot of the same stores. Metropolis is not an American mall by any means, as Ivanhoe Cambridge has said, it's a very productive asset.

Like the only thing that they could do to the mall that wouldn't render it completely useless and unattractive would be to move the "mall" towards the edges of the property by getting rid of the surface parking, and making the new mall sections the podium for office/rentals. There's nothing wrong with making better use of the outside surface area of the mall, which is the only aspect I liked from the development plan, but the way the plan was shown basically destroys the property entirely.

City of Burnaby must be receiving a windfall from the mall each year: stupid of the City to want to get rid of it.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by phesto

The rezoning app for Anthem's project at Central & Wilson in Metrotown shows the tower will be 44 storeys / 464 ft.

https://eagenda.burnaby.ca/sirepub/c...9101203367.pdf

Burnaby doesn't like direct linking to their stuff - it loads a page with "The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."

Major Development Projects lists it as "a single-high rise apartment building with street oriented-townhousing, as well as a non-market housing component" and an old council meeting agenda says "a single high-rise strata apartment building with townhouses oriented towards Wilson Avenue and a low-rise non-market rental apartment building oriented towards Central Boulevard".

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by logan5

The idea is to rid Burnaby of that giant tumor that is Metrotown Mall.

It's never going to happen.
In yours, mine or anyone else who posts on this forum's lifetime.

Our kids and grandkids may see the day, though.
Although I suspect by then, their pressing concerns and interests will have shifted to other more pertinent and important matters.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Vin

Wrong choice of wording there. Not a tumour, but rather, the Golden Goose of Metrotown. Even the Ivanhoe Cambridge attests to that as per Kisai's comments:



City of Burnaby must be receiving a windfall from the mall each year: stupid of the City to want to get rid of it.

The retail aspect will be retained, with some underground and some above ground.

Burnaby would make even more money from that property with it redeveloped, and Ivanhoe Cambridge would have an even more successful mall with 10's of thousands of people living right above it.

Metrotown is the next frontier for lucrative tower development. Metrotown will be fully redeveloped in 30 years. Book it.

[cairnstone]

As shopping trends change and markets change IC will evolve the property along with its co owners. If adding High street outside stores increases revenue per sqft you know IC will evolve that way. Park Royal outside stores are busier than the mall itself many days so I see that indicting change will come sooner than later.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

As shopping trends change and markets change IC will evolve the property along with its co owners. If adding High street outside stores increases revenue per sqft you know IC will evolve that way. Park Royal outside stores are busier than the mall itself many days so I see that indicting change will come sooner than later.

I'm sorry but this statement is simply not supported by fact.

Metropolis was the 2nd highest visited mall (as in, foot traffic) in all of Canada in 2017 and the third highest in 2018.

In fact, in 2017 when it was the 2nd highest trafficked mall in Canada it was receiving on average 1 million more visitors than West Edmonton Mall which is a bigger mall in square footage size.
(Toronto's Eaton was the highest for both years. Not surprising given the density of the GTA area in comparison)


Perception is not reality.
Park Royal stores may seem busier than the mall on most days but when you average out the total foot traffic per year, it barely begins to compare.

Source :
Retail Council of Canada
https://www.retailcouncil.org/wp-con...Final-Rev1.pdf
....and also:-
https://www.burnabynow.com/business/...ize-1.23932965

Also, logic would suggest that converting most of that mall space in to outside or external shopping space in this climate would reduce not increase their foot traffic visitors.
That's part of the appeal of visiting the mall for most people.
You can drive there, park underground walk around and shop in the mall for a couple of hours and head back to your car and home without once ever having to put on your rain jacket or open up a brolly. Even in the middle and coldest parts of January or the wettest parts of February or March.
And a skytrain visit is not that far from that experience either.

Make most of those stores outside stores and you lose a hell of a whole lot of that foot traffic.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

As shopping trends change and markets change IC will evolve the property along with its co owners. If adding High street outside stores increases revenue per sqft you know IC will evolve that way. Park Royal outside stores are busier than the mall itself many days so I see that indicting change will come sooner than later.

Source please? I don't think what you said is based on facts.

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Make most of those stores outside stores and you lose a hell of a whole lot of that foot traffic.

That's so true.

Originally Posted by logan5

The retail aspect will be retained, with some underground and some above ground.

Burnaby would make even more money from that property with it redeveloped, and Ivanhoe Cambridge would have an even more successful mall with 10's of thousands of people living right above it.

Metrotown is the next frontier for lucrative tower development. Metrotown will be fully redeveloped in 30 years. Book it.

Question is, will there be as much retail as is currently available in the mall? Coquitlam Centre next to the mall has a similar retail layout, and I don't think most shops are doing that well, although they are still much better than many of the street retailers along Vancouver's rundown retail streets. My point is, there is no guarantee that converting Metrotown into a street grid concept with ground level retailing will be as successful as it is right now. My suggestion is to leave something good instead of finding ways to destroy it for some dumb reasons (like trying to make the new Metrotown downtown feel more like Vancouer's downtown). This is the same kind of rationale as the removal of the Vancouver viaducts because "other big cities are doing it too".

[officedweller]

Streetfront retail in mixed use projects with condos above often do not have the wide open concept floorplans you can get in a mall where there is nothing above, because you'll have major support columns and service core for elevators and exit stairwells, etc. penetrating the space.
i.e. look at the podium retail spaces at the Amazing Brentwood compared to the shorter dedicated retail buildings.
Even Pacific Centre's larger tenants are in areas of the mall between towers.
You may also have office and residential lobbies and exit doors, etc. interrupting retail continuity along shopping high streets.

[SpongeG]

Metrotown could start with a new retail mall over multi levels, Tokyo has many of such places. And then move the mall tenants in so they can redo the mall. The big Box and Department stores if they are still around can be placed in their own podiums along the streets.

something like this for the first new build.