Saskatoon Construction III

[roryn1]

I think the increased development is due to two things:
-Developers at competition with one another (i’d argue Baydo is trying to beat North Prairie’s College/Clarence development to the punch)
-Downtown projects starting up that will rejuvenate it and make it unimaginable different in the next decade (library and arena/convention center)
-general sentiment of millennials being ok with living in smaller spaces.

It was stalled the last 20 years from:
-any joke of a resident that voted for an arena out of town 30 some years ago
-bad city policies around parking, and the city’s general sentiment towards collecting so much parking revenue downtown (i have ONLY had friends not want to visit me downtown because of the pain in the ass garbage parking app and general expensive cost of parking)
-disgusting city council members trying to push the social housing issue to the provincial government, when they know the province isn’t interested in that type of funding.

I don’t give our current city council for a long overdue library or arena. I personally give them an F for restoring downtown. It’s time to shake up city council. Don Atchison sucked for the downtown but man what had Clark done?

[YXE]

Interesting comments about what has changed. I think you are spot on that developers see the future direction of downtown. Some out of town developers would be smart to (dare I say it) purchase some land downtown to sit on for 5-10 years while we build these large capital projects. At that point the downtown could be ready for MORE larger scale projects.

I disagree with your comments about Clarke. Charlie has been a strong advocate for the downtown and progressive beliefs. He has been very outspoken about redeveloping our downtown into something people on this thread all want (i.e. more urban). Unfortunately there's only so much one can do in one term and I worry he's not going to run for re-election. As a young person living outside the province who intends on coming back for my professional career, Clarke has given me optimism for Saskatoon's future.

Should the city vote in some old-school thinker like Dayday, for example, I promise you we will never see progressive decisions made.

[YXE]

On a random note - How many pigs would need to fly for the city to move the Lighthouse operation into some mixed-use building on top of a new Fire Hall?

[Ricopedra]

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[NotToScale]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

I'm not sure anyone on here or in the burbs knows what the Lighthouse is. The city doesn't own it. It's not going anywhere and it shouldn't move.

I think most people do know where it is, mainly because they can plainly see what goes on outside and around the building. It's pretty visible. I am one that thinks it should be moved, if its an unpopular opinion i'm sorry but I don't want that block to turn into a DTES of Saskatoon.

[Ricopedra]

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[Ricopedra]

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[roryn1]

1. No one has a name for their house, so we shouldn't label The Lighthouse as a negative stigma is associated to any place like it (they even have t-shirts. Let's put an end to branding a halfway house/homeless shelter - waste of time and resources and we want people to treat it as a last resort and hopefully, people can leave it from the services offered).
   
2. The lighthouse is too big. People were making negative comments about the social housing above the police station photo, both the esthetics and the lack of height - stop that social housing needs to remain as cheap as possible and studies show we don't want to have too much density. Social housing should be spread around the entire city or else "groupthink" occurs between groups. Countrless studies and success stories should that social housing spread throughout the community remove stigma, help the users of the social housing aclimate better, and most importantly which is the no1 issue of saskatoon's Lighthouse, reduce illicit drug trade because of less networking. This is one case where density is shown to be a massive drag. This is why The Lighthouse has so many issues.
   
3. There is no security at the Ligthouse and this is not common for this type of shelter. There wouldn't be a need for security if it wasn't so large.
4. The city is trying to push priority of these issues to the provincial government, and the provincial government is pushing it to the city, and this cycle has been continuing since the Sask Party took power.
   

[YXE]

Thanks Roryn for your informed post. I think we need to avoid name calling here and accept that we all good intentions, informed or not. More thoughtful dialogue and educating each other, as you just did, will get us a lot further than the aforementioned.

Your post makes me even more sure that social housing with a police station would be great to provide more resources in our city for those in need. No one should be left on the streets.

[Echoes]

I have chatted with people working in this sector who have a lot of concern and empathy for the folks that the Lighthouse serves, and they too have questioned the efficacy of the Lighthouse model for being just too big and all in one spot. So I don't think the Lighthouse should be moved wholesale, but I think it should be re-thought. A de-concentration of its services may help their clientele while also helping the Downtown. But I don't know enough to declare that with certainty - but it's time that the Lighthouse, government agencies, and their partners take a close look at what the right model is. Perhaps the Fire Hall No. 1 replacement offers opportunities for partnerships. Perhaps there are other opportunities. But without impugning the important and necessary mandate of the Lighthouse, I will say that it has become an anchor to Downtown's forward momentum.

[Ricopedra]

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[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Looks like a root problem will have to be addressed some day.

I personally don't think we will address the problem until we have a new provincial government or a boom that would allow for increased funding on projects, which could be another ten years away.

Disclaimer: I am not a hardcore Sask Party or NDP supporter. I'm very close with watching what both the city government and provincial government are doing, and trying to hand this issue back and fourth until people stop talking about it is exactly how they're "addressing" the issue.

I have also heard that the current team at the lighthouse doesn't want to release the reigns of their monster building to a more saturated model throughout the city with smaller buildings and classes. So much greed happening everywhere with this issue.

[LittleBoy]

Originally Posted by Echoes

I have chatted with people working in this sector who have a lot of concern and empathy for the folks that the Lighthouse serves, and they too have questioned the efficacy of the Lighthouse model for being just too big and all in one spot. So I don't think the Lighthouse should be moved wholesale, but I think it should be re-thought. A de-concentration of its services may help their clientele while also helping the Downtown. But I don't know enough to declare that with certainty - but it's time that the Lighthouse, government agencies, and their partners take a close look at what the right model is. Perhaps the Fire Hall No. 1 replacement offers opportunities for partnerships. Perhaps there are other opportunities. But without impugning the important and necessary mandate of the Lighthouse, I will say that it has become an anchor to Downtown's forward momentum.

You make a really good point. Saskatoon seems to have focused on one facility to address the services whereas Regina has multiple smaller facilities spread throughout a few central neighbourhoods. I would anecdotally say that this leads to a significant difference in street feel between the two downtowns

[prairieguy]

I have acquaintances in both social services and police. Their views are very similar on the issue of the Lighthouse. First...the issue is not the 'clients'. It goes without saying that these are people that need supports, programs and access to help steady their living situation. However...there ARE issues with The Lighthouse. The perspective of both of my friends is that the location was not likely a great choice, but was an opportunity taken rather then planned and therefore the scale of the building itself and number of clients causes issues.

There is also some agreement that the services need to be where the greatest need is and both mentioned area around Station 20 West. The concern from the social worker friend is you don't want to create a "ghetto of concentrated services" which can then just move a perceived 'problem' elsewhere. This is where they disagree....the police friend thinks "policing" and linking clients to the services and supports they need would be easier around Station 20. My social work friend supports the idea of a few satelite sites providing services.

It is complex with no simple answer. This is probably far to much of a philosophical and social commentary for a construction thread. I guess we should just stick to do we like design and aesthetic of Lighthouse (sarcasm!).

I do think it has had a very negative impact on "perception" of safety for that area of downtown. People are uncomfortable and that translates into fear.

I have no answer.

[NotToScale]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

NotToScale, with all due respect, looking at your post, I took you as a white male suburban Saskatoon dweller ignoring the plight of the hundreds of local folks trying to survive abuses and prejudices that inhibit their growth that with this facility have finally found a place that gives them a bit of hope. In fact, many are thriving and turning their lives around.

NotToScale, best thing here is that you're not a white suburbanite. If you are, just stay there and preen your lawn. Life goes on without you, and me, too.

You should make a $50 donation to the Lighthouse, though. Just because. Maybe we could ask the Sheepdogs to be judges. I don't know what I'm saying now but just trying to find balance between good Saskatoon folks and the ignoramuses.

Guess I'll fade away.

Yes fade away and be quiet, your rants are cute at times but you overstepped. That's all I am going to say about your assumptions with me. Lets leave it at that.

All I said is I don't want it to turn into the DTES of Saskatoon, which is a mess because services are centralized nearby and people there are not truly helped. As many have already mentioned, decongesting the lighthouse would be a good step so overcrowding can hopefully reduce issues and the image it is beginning to take on.

[Ricopedra]

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[Arts]

My opinion on the Lighthouse, FWIW (I'm no expert I just think about these things often). Currently it offers all these different services:

Assisted living (for people trying to get back on their feet)
Affordable housing (for people on their feet but can't find affordable rent)
Mens and Womens shelters (absolutely needed for people that are homeless and don't want to be)
Soup Kitchen (for people that don't need shelter but need food I guess)
Stabilization Unit (for addicts)

This is too many different things to be all in one place. IMO they should pare it down to be assisted living and emergency shelter only, the other functions should all be served at other sites. Affordable housing should truly be spread across the entire city really shouldn't blend in at all with people that need a lot more support, no reason for it to be downtown at all, let along where homeless people and drug addicts hang out. Soup Kitchen doesn't really make much sense to me for people that don't also need a shelter, IMO the food provisions should be exclusively for those whom they are sheltering, a community kitchen makes more sense to be located in a more residential area and/or closer to a place like Station20W or the food bank - I get that they are trying to stretch their resources as much as possible but it's causing more issues than it's solving. The stabilization unit has no business being downtown, it is a medical issue and should be handled at a purpose built clinic or ward at a hospital, and those patients transported there it should fall under provincial health and be administered by provincial health.

I suppose there will be some people, maybe even those with more understanding of social welfare system we have, that disagree with me but I suspect more who see it the same way I do if they were to do a little research.

[ToonTownRob]

The thing about the lighthouse, it must be remembered, is that once upon a time it was on the periphery of downtown. The hotel that it used to be, and which always had a particular element of society around it, could be avoided for the most part. There was little in that area that most ‘regular’ people ever needed or wanted to frequent, so it was simply a part of town where you just didn’t go. With a lack of mixing and interaction, it had little effect on most people’s view of downtown Saskatoon.

But then the movie theatre downtown got gutted and turned into a bribery... whoops! engineering office, and a swanky new theatre got built (and later expanded) across the street, on the ‘wrong’ side. And then two blocks south, the entire downtown ‘backside’ of Saskatoon got renovated and beautified and turned into a place where most folks wanted to be.

An arts centre was built, then a 100 million dollar gallery, a nice smaller office building, and then all of a sudden in one of the most dramatic examples of urban renewal in the country; four (count em! FOUR) brand new towers got built one after the other with an investment of a third of a Billion dollars, and the entire economic epicentre of the city moved, expanded and changed.

Meanwhile, the seedy hotel morphed into a well intentioned service for a particular clientele, amongst a number of others, and grew in size right where it had started. But now it finds itself not on the periphery of downtown, but right smack dab in the middle of it! With far more people in need of what it provides as well, and unfortunately SOME of those folks aren’t just looking for a hand up, but rather choose or engage in negative activity harmful to others.

There is no longer an easy way for these various groups to avoid each other. And the inevitable clashes result, and downtown Saskatoon no longer feels safe. That used to be the case on 20th west of Idylwyld, but it’s actually not so bad there anymore, and the ‘problem’ has been moved right smack dab in the centre of where all the action is, which has also moved as well.

It’s like two rival gangs trying to take over the same territory; only one can have it. Both have a need and a right to exist, and they always will, but the turf war will continue until one gets moved out. They can’t peacefully coexist no matter how pollyanna well intentioned people want to be about it.

The thing about wars, of any kind, is that they distract and consume resources that would be better spent by both sides building and serving their respective societies. It’s really hard to successfully build yourself up while you are trying to tear someone else down.

It is completely unrealistic to expect that these rival gangs will share their territory. They will inevitably continue to clash, with casualties on both sides, until one side wins and the other moves on.

In a turf war like this, guess who wins? The side with the most money.

What this really is, honestly is an urban design problem. You don’t zone for bars and strip joints right next to elementary schools either. Both want to be away from each other.

There simply is no other solution than the lighthouse moving on. There is no point in denying or delaying it. Design/build problems only get fixed when you bite the bullet, go in and tear out the mistake and fix it right. The lighthouse is too big as it is, does not integrate into mainstream society but instead alienates it, which really shouldn’t be happening for most of the people it serves. As it is, it is in the wrong location. It must either change or move on.

The other ‘side’ is not going anywhere now.

[ToonTownRob]

So how do you afford to move the lighthouse? Tear it and the entire block it is on down, and build the new arena/convention centre right there, along with integrated indoor parking for thousands of cars (sorry all you car haters, but they aren’t going anywhere either), add climate controlled overhead walkways to connect the Alt hotel, Renaissance, Remai arts buildings, and Mid-Town plaza, and everything in between, and create one of the most dynamic, multifaceted, 20 hour per day hubs of interest and activity, even during the dead of winter when people in Saskatchewan need it most, that the country will ever see.

The moving of the lighthouse and breaking it up into better integrated bite-sized pieces will simply become a small part of the cost of creating such a beautiful dream.

[Ricopedra]

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