Atlantic Canada airport thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

The problem with our "solid connection" to Toronto stems from AC being the only carrier operating out of YSJ. Fares on AC for flights to various destinations in North America are often double what they are out of Moncton. The reason is pretty simple. As long as Air Canada has a monopoly at YSJ they will charge what they like. In Moncton they compete with Porter and Westjet.

As for flight to US cities...Flights by major US carriers to US cities in the Northeast have been attempted out of both Moncton and Fredericton. In both cases the US airlines chose to discontinue them. In the case of Fredericton the flight was initially subsidized and was discontinued when the funding ran out.

Flair Airlines. They are our best hope at the moment. Air Canada doesn’t care about Saint John at all, and I think they cancelled those flights just to make sure their employees didn’t get full use of their flight benefits. There’s over 300 Air Canada employees in Saint John, far more per capita than most cities due to the call centre.

If we want flights to the US to work, we’re going to have to do more route sharing with Fredericton and other regional airports on selected routes. Pushing for a Fredericton-Saint John airport would be even better. Imagine flights from St. John’s, Halifax, Moncton, Sydney, that made a stop at New Brunswick International Airport on the way to Boston, New York, Atlanta, etc.

This bush league $500 round trip minimum flights to Halifax are the least thing Saint John needs to bring more tourists to the region, it’s basically exclusively aimed at business travellers and Saint Johnners/KVers that want to go to Halifax. Great for James Mullinger, mostly pointless for most people in SJ that would like to get to Halifax cheaply.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Flair Airlines. They are our best hope at the moment. Air Canada doesn’t care about Saint John at all, and I think they cancelled those flights just to make sure their employees didn’t get full use of their flight benefits. There’s over 300 Air Canada employees in Saint John, far more per capita than most cities due to the call centre.

If we want flights to the US to work, we’re going to have to do more route sharing with Fredericton and other regional airports on selected routes. Pushing for a Fredericton-Saint John airport would be even better. Imagine flights from St. John’s, Halifax, Moncton, Sydney, that made a stop at New Brunswick International Airport on the way to Boston, New York, Atlanta, etc.

This bush league $500 round trip minimum flights to Halifax are the least thing Saint John needs to bring more tourists to the region, it’s basically exclusively aimed at business travellers and Saint Johnners/KVers that want to go to Halifax. Great for James Mullinger, mostly pointless for most people in SJ that would like to get to Halifax cheaply.

We have discussed the issues with Flair several times and I won't go through them again. Suffice it to say they are not the answer to our problems at YSJ.

[sailor734]

It would be very interesting to see stats (if they exist in the public domain) on how much leakage occurs out of the various airport catchment areas.

How many people from Saint john fly out of Moncton, Fredericton or Bangor in the run of a year? Is it due to better selection of carriers, flight schedules or pricing?

[DyAm00394]

PASCAN Aviation excited to enter Maritime market

"The co-owner of PASCAN Aviation says they are excited to enter the Maritime market.

The Quebec-based airline is launching regional air service between Bathurst, Saint John, and Halifax.

Julian Roberts, who is also the company’s CEO, said they have been eying this route since 2012.

“Lots of things have happened in our lives, in aviation, that changed those things around,” Roberts told reporters on Wednesday.

“But once we were in a place where we could start a small expansion, the first people we got in touch with were Saint John and Bathurst.”

Officials said the new service, which will operate year-round on weekdays, will begin on Sept. 9.

The plane will depart from Bathurst early in the morning and return from Halifax in the late afternoon, with a stopover in Saint John each way.

Air Canada operated a Saint John to Halifax route pre-pandemic, which carried around 24,000 passengers per year".

Roberts said their company’s smaller size and 33-seat aircraft will make it easier for them to operate a regional route.

“Our aircraft is the right size. We’re going to be able to come in and offer frequency to the population densities that we see here. We really believe that’s going to be the success,” he added.

Fares will start at $445 return and can be booked starting June 1 online or by calling 1-888-313-8777.

Roberts said they hope this route will serve as a trampoline and allow his company to expand even further".

https://www.country94.ca/2024/05/09/...ritime-market/

[MonctonRad]

Pascan operated briefly out of the Moncton airport, perhaps 7-8 years ago.

I forget their routing, but, I think they flew to Bathurst and Montreal, and, perhaps somewhere else. All I recall is that they were very expensive, unpopular and didn't last a year.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

It would be very interesting to see stats (if they exist in the public domain) on how much leakage occurs out of the various airport catchment areas.

How many people from Saint john fly out of Moncton, Fredericton or Bangor in the run of a year? Is it due to better selection of carriers, flight schedules or pricing?

It would. Prior to covid we accepted that you had to transfer through Toronto or Montreal, but it didn't make a huge difference which airport you travelled through. We've used all three NB airports to fly overseas.

My last European trip I ended up using YHZ and slept overnight in London -- the once per day AC YHZ-LHR flight worked perfectly for this, and the hotel I used was pretty cheap. Flew out of Gatwick to my final destination.

Using LHR/GTW as a hub is pretty convenient, and will probably do the same either with AC or Westjet depending on timing of my trip. The epic amount of flights out of GTW using easyjet makes this strategy feasible. This would also work easily using Iceland Air in the summer, but using Keflavik as the hub.

I hate to say it, but the solution to NB's airport conundrum is the further establishment of YHZ as a hub for European travel -- where the feeder flights are from NB airports. YHZ has the advantage of being able to use the 737 variants (or Airbus equivalent...) to be able to get to European destinations; I wish the daily flight to LHR was overnight to preclude the hotel requirement in LHR.

[theshark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Pascan operated briefly out of the Moncton airport, perhaps 7-8 years ago.

I forget their routing, but, I think they flew to Bathurst and Montreal, and, perhaps somewhere else. All I recall is that they were very expensive, unpopular and didn't last a year.

It was Moncton - St-John’s if I remember correctly, they flew Bathurst -Wabush when the mining sector was strong

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by theshark

It was Moncton - St-John’s if I remember correctly, they flew Bathurst -Wabush when the mining sector was strong

Yes, that was probably it. PAL now flies Moncton-Wabush and Moncton-St. John's and it is pretty well received. The main thing I remember about Pascan is that the fares were exorbitant.

[sailor734]

AC did fairly well flying SJ to Halifax. I read something from YSJ that the passenger load was about 24,000 per year. They were flying those 18 pass Beech 1900's 3 or 4 times a day as I recall.

I think the difference is AC got passengers for Halifax PLUS people connecting on AC flights (St. Johns, Ottawa, London) or catching a flight to TO or Montreal if the SJ flight was full or the timing worked better for them. I connected through Halifax a couple of times flying on points when it was either all that was available or cost much less in terms of points.

I can't see Pascan getting much traffic except people whose final destination is Halifax. Not sure if that will generate enough traffic to sustain the service.

[theshark]

If the maintenance hangar gets built in Bathurst, I think Pascan might be serious about being the regional airline of the maritimes, meaning they might want to relocate part of their fleet in the maritimes. It was the most requested destination from the business community according to the Bathurst airport authority, for us it saves a 10 hour drive back and fourth to halifax and a 7 hours back and forth to Saint John.

[DyAm00394]

A new CBC Information Morning interview with YSJ CEO.
https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...ew-flights-ysj

In it he pretty much said this new service is more so for the business communities. He mentioned companies like JDI/Irving being able to more easily get their employees back and fourth. And that fares start at $445, (all fees included), which he said is actually cheaper than what Air Canada charged before they axed the service.

He said Pascan approached them and he made sure with Air Canada that they were not going to be reinstating the service, which he said Air Canada confirmed to him there are no plans in the foreseeable future. He said he wanted to make sure so that there was no competition of 2 airlines doing the same route making it unviable for both.

He also confirmed Pascan is in discussions on some interline agreements with other airlines and he said with any luck by mid-summer there may be another announcement that the Pascan ticket can be parlay into a ticket on another carrier out of Halifax. He said more is to come, he wanted to get this first announcement made.

[sailor734]

Well, business travel has always been bread and butter for airlines with leisure travel being the gravy so maybe this will work for them.

It still doesn't do anything for YSJ having pricing that is competitive with the other 2 NB airports....or to reduce passenger leakage to YFC and YQM

[theshark]

I say Porter, as they are building a terminal at the Saint-Hubert/Longueuil airport, where Pascan also has a terminal.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by theshark

I say Porter, as they are building a terminal at the Saint-Hubert/Longueuil airport, where Pascan also has a terminal.

That might actually be a bad thing for Saint John. Porter might figure that between YSJ passengers connecting into their network via Halifax and those driving to either YFC or YQM there is not enough upside to starting a YSJ service.

[Lobster chucker]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

PASCAN Aviation excited to enter Maritime market



https://www.country94.ca/2024/05/09/...ritime-market/

The Math doesnt add Up they say the route between YSJ and Halifax was 24K a year that means on EVAS air Beech, which sat 19, this would equate to approx 1250 flights a year or apprx 24 a week or a little over 3.5 per day based on 7 days a week . I may be wrong but i beleve most days were two a day with a few having three ( same out of moncton)

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Lobster chucker

The Math doesnt add Up they say the route between YSJ and Halifax was 24K a year that means on EVAS air Beech, which sat 19, this would equate to approx 1250 flights a year or apprx 24 a week or a little over 3.5 per day based on 7 days a week . I may be wrong but i beleve most days were two a day with a few having three ( same out of moncton)

I thought YSJ was 3 a day with 4 in the summer?
The Beech 1900 was actually configured for 18 I think......19 and up requires a flight attendant

[AGGUS]

Originally Posted by Lobster chucker

The Math doesnt add Up they say the route between YSJ and Halifax was 24K a year that means on EVAS air Beech, which sat 19, this would equate to approx 1250 flights a year or apprx 24 a week or a little over 3.5 per day based on 7 days a week . I may be wrong but i beleve most days were two a day with a few having three ( same out of moncton)

When I first saw that stat I had to wonder if that meant 12 K in each direction, or did they mean the service moved 24 K passengers a year from YSJ to Halifax?

24 K total passengers on the route, no matter the direction, is possible. But that still seems like a bit of a stretch...

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

We have discussed the issues with Flair several times and I won't go through them again. Suffice it to say they are not the answer to our problems at YSJ.

Can't disagree with you more on this one, every time. By no means do I think Flair is our only hope, but they are absolutely our best hope at the moment.

your misplaced belief that Porter coming back to save the airport is a little sad and based on nothing other than your personal hope they will come back (after leaving us once already )

I think your hope in Porter coming back and fundamentally changing the situation at YSJ is incredibly unrealistic, and mostly based around your personal desire for a connection to Ottawa.

btw, Porter's route from Fredericton to Boston is a flipping joke... it's a 7 hour journey that requires you to fly to Toronto first. They could have come up with a much better way to connect to Boston, by including St. John's or Halifax in the mix, instead of Toronto. So, I don't exactly see Porter as the airline to come in a change things for the better.

As I said before, we have a much better chance convincing Americans to come to Saint John on a vacation than we do Canadians West of New Brunswick, let alone Haligonians. Most Canadians west of NB don't even realize there is a Saint John, New Brunswick in addition to St. John's, Newfoundland, and most of them would rather take a vacation to the USA, Latin America, Europe, or Asia anyways. Getting Canadians from West of NB to visit the maritimes can be like pulling teeth.

Americans are the best hope for a boost to tourism, and directly relates to what West Jet's CEO said we were doing a bad job with with flights here in in NB... instead of having flights that facilitate people coming here for a vacation, we focus on sun destination flights to make it easier for NBers to go on vacations to countries with cheap currencies. No offence to Cubans, but I don't think their citizens are going to suddenly want to spend half their yearly income to take a vacation to Saint John for a week.

Americans on the other hand, they can be sold a lot more on the value in vacations to Canada, especially ones to smaller places like Saint John. They can escape the big city life and summer heat for a week or weekend with a quick affordable flight to Saint John.

While Saint John and Fredericton don't share an airport yet, there's still lots of opportunities for us to combine efforts on flights, and with other airports in the region too, like Moncton, St. John's and Halifax. "Fredericton->Saint John-> Boston" "Halifax>Saint John>New York"

These could be viable options if our provincial governments could effectively coordinate with airlines and provide subsidies for new routes.

If you polled people in Fredericton and Saint John, and the entire maritimes for that matter, I think you'd find Boston and New York would be among the top cities they are looking to visit, and for many Boston/NY would rank higher than Toronto and Montreal. I don't think Ottawa is exactly high up on many maritimers lists.

[stephan.richard]

Right now for us in the province of New Brunswick is that we are not on the B or C list for expansion at tha moment. If the province and business community is not willing to pony up 2-5 million of initial investment and upwards of 500k a year to operate the flight year round it will hard. Many carriers have aircraft and crew challenges and that could prevent expansion of new markets.
But only time will tell.

[Lobster chucker]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I thought YSJ was 3 a day with 4 in the summer?
The Beech 1900 was actually configured for 18 I think......19 and up requires a flight attendant

I can’t say for sure. But this evening I was chatting with a SJ person who travels who said. No way. At best it was 2 a day with the odd three and never full. But hey. If it gets traction, all the power to them