The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[Truenorth00]

To be clear, I don't think China building more coal plants is wise. For the environment or their own finances (future stranded assets). But, it's pretty rich for fossil fuel exporters like Canada, who don't do much domestically, to criticize the country that is building the most renewables, electric vehicles, etc. (With decent stats even per capita). They are at least trying to somewhat transition, while developing their economy. Meanwhile in Canada, paying a few cents more on gas is controversial, even when most of it is rebated....

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They are at least trying to somewhat transition, while developing their economy. Meanwhile in Canada, paying a few cents more on gas is controversial, even when most of it is rebated....

Though 2 of the posters who mentioned China, provoking a strong response, come from the land of $1.60/L gas and people who take transit or walk a lot while using hydro power and living in tiny condos. It's pretty likely I've been lectured by people who have much more emissions-intensive lifestyles than I do. I don't think we should lecture people or judge them for their lifestyle (e.g. having kids or needing to drive to work), or require them to establish "cred" to share their opinions. If that became less common on SSP the discussion quality would go up.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

Though 2 of the posters who mentioned China, provoking a strong response, come from the land of $1.60/L gas and people who take transit or walk a lot while using hydro power and living in tiny condos. It's pretty likely I've been lectured by people who have much more emissions-intensive lifestyles than I do. I don't think we should lecture people or judge them for their lifestyle (e.g. having kids or needing to drive to work), or require them to establish "cred" to share their opinions. If that became less common on SSP the discussion quality would go up.

Not sure what this has to do with national policy....

In any event, in my experience, the folks who love to point out supposed climate hypocrisy are always the folks least sincere about the issue, who love to use it as some sort of "gotchya!" Just take a look at all the complaints about attendees flying to any climate conference.....

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I don't think the West is to blame for China's emissions. It's not a helpless sweatshop economy like Honduras where Western corporations run the plants and exploit local people and resources purely for their own interests. The CPC and China's business elite obviously had almost all of the agency in shaping how China developed.

It’s a two way deal. Western corporations and economies know what they’re signing up for outsourcing everything to China. The watered down regulations cater to cheap consumers back home.

[ssiguy]

Besides the devastating human toll and hardship these floods have called, we must also look at the financial and economic impacts.

Not only is this going to cost tens of millions to repair the infrastructure damage but also will cause yet more inflation. Not only is Vancouver effectively cut off from the rest of the country by roads but also by rail. CN & CP have closed down their service due to flooding and risk of landslides in the Fraser Canyon. This means that nearly every export and import Canada does with Asia is now come to a halt and it will not be reopened for at least 2 days. This effects not only BC locally but also all of Canada's exports to Asia.

Added to the above stress on our economy is what is happening in China. On Friday & Saturday the big ports of Shanghai, Tianjin, and Harbin were shut down due to the smog being so bad that it was too dangerous for people to go outside and vision was down to a miniscule 200 meters. All this adds up to yet higher levels of inflation due to scarcity of products but also backups in our own rail network as the ships from our West Coast have to stop or be delayed because they have no point of entry when they get to China.

[esquire]

^ What about Prince Rupert? Can it pick up some of the slack?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by someone123

They will both fill the landfill at the same rate, for a while. You can decide which of those garbage bags are virtuous responsible garbage and which are evil I guess. Though if those 6 kids go on to have a similar lifestyle, in the end the family with more kids will generate far more garbage.

Exactly.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ What about Prince Rupert? Can it pick up some of the slack?

It would only benefit CN. also they would need to divert all of their rolling stock north. Don't know how the shipping companies would work around it, but it is doable. PRs tonnage is down so far this year.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Added to the above stress on our economy is what is happening in China. On Friday & Saturday the big ports of Shanghai, Tianjin, and Harbin were shut down due to the smog being so bad that it was too dangerous for people to go outside and vision was down to a miniscule 200 meters. All this adds up to yet higher levels of inflation due to scarcity of products but also backups in our own rail network as the ships from our West Coast have to stop or be delayed because they have no point of entry when they get to China.

Weird that China gets so much flak on here when India is having identical issues:

https://www.ft.com/content/7192e384-...3-4abc7b2893e5

India closes coal-fired plants as New Delhi is smothered in toxic smog
Amy Kazmin in New Delhi 6 HOURS AGO

Indian regulators have closed six of the 11 coal-fired power plants within a 300km radius of New Delhi, as the capital has been blanketed by toxic smog for nearly two weeks.

The Commission for Air Quality Management also closed schools and colleges until further notice, banned private construction work and restricted the entry of trucks into the city until November 21.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Weird that China gets so much flak on here when India is having identical issues:

https://www.ft.com/content/7192e384-...3-4abc7b2893e5

India closes coal-fired plants as New Delhi is smothered in toxic smog
Amy Kazmin in New Delhi 6 HOURS AGO

Doesn't suit the narrative of, "But China...."

Pollution in the Delhi area (closest megacity to Agra) is so bad, they had to give the Taj Mahal a mud bath to get the grime off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/w...-cleaning.html

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Weird that China gets so much flak on here when India is having identical issues:

I don't think it's that weird. Rightly or wrongly, India is generally viewed as a struggling developing country while China is viewed as an industrial superpower ruled by a ruthless communist government.

Generally, I think that's why people tend to cut China less slack. That, and the contentious relationship they've had with Canada over the past several years...

Regardless, I don't think there are many who don't believe that China is/will be the next empire who will have the most control over other nations in this world as the west goes into decline, so it's hard for most to think that they are being treated unfairly and being kept down...

That said, support for China is strong on SSP.

[Truenorth00]

Somebody should send the folks in Merritt, this memo from Joe Oliver.

[Peggerino]

Lol, that article's definitely going to not age well in the coming years

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Peggerino

Lol, that article's definitely going to not age well in the coming years

It wasn't good the day it was released.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Somebody should send the folks in Merritt, this memo from Joe Oliver.

Merritt, and Lytton too.

There are certain areas of Canada especially vulnerable to climate change:

Lower mainland - sea level rise
Interior BC - wildfires
Southern prairies - desertification.
Southern Ontario - heat stress
Atlantic coast - sea level rise, storm intensification (hurricanes)

The areas of Canada where most people live are the areas most at risk for climate stress. The mid latitude areas of the country may benefit, but these areas are not as amenable to farming. Add in the stress of environmental refugees from elsewhere, and Canada would be screwed - climatologically, ecologically, economically and politically screwed.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't think it's that weird. Rightly or wrongly, India is generally viewed as a struggling developing country while China is viewed as an industrial superpower ruled by a ruthless communist government.

Generally, I think that's why people tend to cut China less slack. That, and the contentious relationship they've had with Canada over the past several years...

Regardless, I don't think there are many who don't believe that China is/will be the next empire who will have the most control over other nations in this world as the west goes into decline, so it's hard for most to think that they are being treated unfairly and being kept down...

That said, support for China is strong on SSP.

I agree about India getting more slack for being developing vs China being a Superpower. It is a nuclear power though.

As for support for China being strong on SSP, I don't think that's the case. People who trot out the tired "But China" whataboutism get called out for it because it's meant as nothing more than an excuse to do nothing to fight Climate Change. I oppose China on most issues but it's completely hypocritical to hear the same people that want to sell them hydrocarbons whining about their GHG emissions and pretending that per capita emissions don't matter.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Somebody should send the folks in Merritt, this memo from Joe Oliver.

Ah yes Oily Joe!! One of Harper's greasiest hydrocarbon salesmen.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Peggerino

Lol, that article's definitely going to not age well in the coming years

Originally Posted by JHikka

It wasn't good the day it was released.

But wait. There's more!

Just yesterday:

Joe Oliver: How much green pain will Canadians tolerate?
Canada can indulge in costly virtue-signalling and moral gestures — up to a point. But it cannot afford to live beyond its means indefinitely

https://financialpost.com/opinion/ho...dians-tolerate

I'm not sure if this is just trolling at this point.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Merritt, and Lytton too.

There are certain areas of Canada especially vulnerable to climate change:

Lower mainland - sea level rise
Interior BC - wildfires
Southern prairies - desertification.
Southern Ontario - heat stress
Atlantic coast - sea level rise, storm intensification (hurricanes)

The areas of Canada where most people live are the areas most at risk for climate stress. The mid latitude areas of the country may benefit, but these areas are not as amenable to farming. Add in the stress of environmental refugees from elsewhere, and Canada would be screwed - climatologically, ecologically, economically and politically screwed.

I wish more conservatives were like you.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Just yesterday:

https://financialpost.com/opinion/ho...dians-tolerate

I'm not sure if this is just trolling at this point.

Don't forget that media totally has a Liberal bias and Conservative voices are always silenced in our national outlets.