Atlantic Canada airport thread

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

New PASCAN regional air service with Saint John, Bathurst and Halifax launching September 9th.


Press Release: https://ysjsaintjohn.ca/saint-john-a...l-air-service/

PASCAN Website: https://www.pascan.com/en/

Pascan to Halifax and Bathurst? Well it's better than just another seasonal sun destination, but I wouldn't call it a game changer either, especially without any interline or codeshare possibilities for onward connections.

The YSJ flights don't appear to be loaded in their booking system yet. I'll be curious on the pricing - a cursory look at Pascan's Gaspé to Quebec City flight in September has one way fares - subsidized by the province of Quebec and with a litany of restrictions - starting at $250. Non-subsidized one way fares are $625 and up... yikes!

[theshark]

Article says that Pascan is planing to rent facilities at the Bathurst airport as the plane will be based here overnight. Long term is to build a new hangar to accommodate Pascan to store and maintain planes here. It will put the airport back in the black!

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

NB and NS aren’t exactly radically different in terms of population size. New Brunswick having two airports with 1 million+ passengers would be well in line with the demographic comparison to Nova Scotia.

I don't think your math holds up. NS population is almost 1.1M, with passengers through YHZ probably soon to equal the pre-pandemic levels of over 4M. That's a passenger:population ratio of 3.4:1.

NB population is just over 850K, so the NB ratio, per the figures in your post, would be 2M:850K = 2.3:1. That's a significant difference.

But the bare numbers really don't tell the story. Two airports in significantly smaller cities (Halifax is now over a half million) will never have the critical mass and synergies of the bigger city to compete in attracting carriers. It's not an apt comparison.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Pascan to Halifax and Bathurst? Well it's better than just another seasonal sun destination, but I wouldn't call it a game changer either, especially without any interline or codeshare possibilities for onward connections.

The YSJ flights don't appear to be loaded in their booking system yet. I'll be curious on the pricing - a cursory look at Pascan's Gaspé to Quebec City flight in September has one way fares - subsidized by the province of Quebec and with a litany of restrictions - starting at $250. Non-subsidized one way fares are $625 and up... yikes!

It talks more about fares and the airlines intentions more here:

https://www.country94.ca/2024/05/08/...ifax-bathurst/

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7198210

Sandy Ross is saying that it would be around 570.00 for a return trip to Halifax by car???? Not sure math is his specialty. Worth a read lol.

On the bright side of all this is YSJ is the only Atlantic airport that will have 5x weekly service to Bathurst.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I don't think your math holds up. NS population is almost 1.1M, with passengers through YHZ probably soon to equal the pre-pandemic levels of over 4M. That's a passenger:population ratio of 3.4:1.

NB population is just over 850K, so the NB ratio, per the figures in your post, would be 2M:850K = 2.3:1. That's a significant difference.

But the bare numbers really don't tell the story. Two airports in significantly smaller cities (Halifax is now over a half million) will never have the critical mass and synergies of the bigger city to compete in attracting carriers. It's not an apt comparison.

SJ and Fredericton have a combined metropolitan population of over 250,000 and would draw on at least 300,000 people.

Greater Moncton is inching towards 200k on their own, and draw upon even more people outside their metro area.

You’re right that it’s not an apt comparison, that’s why I stated a more realistic goal of 1 million passengers for each airport. What’s so unrealistic about those numbers?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by homebody

It talks more about fares and the airlines intentions more here:

https://www.country94.ca/2024/05/08/...ifax-bathurst/

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7198210

Sandy Ross is saying that it would be around 570.00 for a return trip to Halifax by car???? Not sure math is his specialty. Worth a read lol.

On the bright side of all this is YSJ is the only Atlantic airport that will have 5x weekly service to Bathurst.

His estimate is out to lunch. Although perhaps he is trying to get a big number by calculating vehicle depreciation, gas, wear and tear, maintenance etc to come up with a cost of 70 or 75 cents per kilometer.

I drive a mid size 6 cylinder SUV and would burn 75-80 litres of fuel to Halifax and back. So, at $1.80/litre I'd spend around $140 or so on fuel.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I don't think your math holds up. NS population is almost 1.1M, with passengers through YHZ probably soon to equal the pre-pandemic levels of over 4M. That's a passenger:population ratio of 3.4:1.

NB population is just over 850K, so the NB ratio, per the figures in your post, would be 2M:850K = 2.3:1. That's a significant difference.

But the bare numbers really don't tell the story. Two airports in significantly smaller cities (Halifax is now over a half million) will never have the critical mass and synergies of the bigger city to compete in attracting carriers. It's not an apt comparison.

I say it often but the other major facto that leads to such inflated numbers in NS vs NB is the remoteness. It does not look like much on a map but when I lived in Halifax the idea of driving to Montreal was ridiculous, but now that I am in Fredericton (and 8 hour round trip closer) I drive.

There is the added factor of competition with US cities as well. Sure Halifax snipes a few from NB and PEI but the majority of fliers are from NS and the flying is the best option for travel period.

If population equaled PAX numbers cities like London and Windsor would be above Charlottetown and Prince George but remoteness can really bump up your numbers.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

I say it often but the other major facto that leads to such inflated numbers in NS vs NB is the remoteness. It does not look like much on a map but when I lived in Halifax the idea of driving to Montreal was ridiculous, but now that I am in Fredericton (and 8 hour round trip closer) I drive.

If Nova Scotia and Halifax didn't exist New Brunswick would very likely have a busier airport because it is still remote.

But thanks to Halifax Stanfield I can be in Europe sitting in a restaurant while you are still driving to Montreal tired and exhausted from the long and boring drive.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by q12

If Nova Scotia and Halifax didn't exist New Brunswick would very likely have a busier airport because it is still remote.

But thanks to Halifax Stanfield I can be in Europe sitting in a restaurant while you are still driving to Montreal tired and exhausted from the long and boring drive.

Wow, you are starting to sound like a real cocky dick lol

[q12]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Wow, you are starting to sound like a real cocky dick lol

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

What a coincidence; I feel the exact same way about the City of Calgary, probably moreso

Peace out

Looks you were already given the boot recently from the Calgary airport thread.

Do you just go from one airport thread to another causing shit until they tell you to leave?

[homebody]

Originally Posted by sailor734

His estimate is out to lunch. Although perhaps he is trying to get a big number by calculating vehicle depreciation, gas, wear and tear, maintenance etc to come up with a cost of 70 or 75 cents per kilometer.

I drive a mid size 6 cylinder SUV and would burn 75-80 litres of fuel to Halifax and back. So, at $1.80/litre I'd spend around $140 or so on fuel.

Agreed. I just wonder who he is trying to fool. People are not stupid. He is trying to find a way to justify an airfare that is obviously too much. I would drive the 4hrs as opposed to paying four something for a flight to and from Halifax.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by q12

Looks you were already given the boot recently from the Calgary airport thread.

Do you just go from one airport thread to another causing shit until they tell you to leave?

LOL well at least I know you have the ability to search other poster's posts. Congratulations! And no, I wasn't given the boot from anywhere, so maybe get your facts straight before post lies about other members

[Justanothermember]

Anyway, I do feel like Porter will come to Saint John in the near future with flights to Toronto and Ottawa at a minimum. With a growing population there is a need to connect the city more than it currently is.

It's looks like a great city to visit, btw!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Anyway, I do feel like Porter will come to Saint John in the near future with flights to Toronto and Ottawa at a minimum. With a growing population there is a need to connect the city more than it currently is.

It's looks like a great city to visit, btw!

Why Ottawa?

Boston, New York, DC, Atlanta, they should all be higher on the food chain, as they are all far more useful airports than Ottawa.


We have a solid connection to Toronto as is, most Canadians have no reason to travel to our nations capital, especially not for connecting international flights. Scheduled flights to Ottawa might be good for Wayne Long and our next MP, but it’s not high on the list of places most Saint Johnners and NBers want to go.

A connection to Boston, Montreal, New York, and even Atlanta or D.C. would be far more meaningful. Moreover, I think we could sell American tourists to come here on a vacation far easier than fellow Canadians. Most Canadians west of NB refuse to even believe Saint John and St. John’s are not the same city.

Saint John is a far more interesting travel destination to Americans than Canadians I’ve found. It’s like pulling teeth to get people west of NB to actually come to the maritimes, and if they do, they likely pick Nova Scotia, or Newfoundland, which they believe is part of ther Maritimes (sand can you blame them?)


Saint John should be seeking connections to other huge airports other than YYZ. I’ve flown all over the world from YSJ, and I’ve found on many long haul flights Air Canada won’t overcharge you to get to Toronto or Montreal for the flight where they really make the money off you, they overcharge us on flights anywhere within North America, and make driving or taking the bus to Halifax sometimes worth the added hassle. Where our airport really lacks is direct connections places other than Toronto. We need connections to Montreal far more than we need connections to Ottawa. I’d argue we need connections to New York and Boston even more. The best way to do that is to combine airports with Fredericton. Otherwise, Moncton is going to just utterly dominate it travel to and from the province, which just simply doesn’t reflect the demographic reality of New Brunswick.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by homebody

It talks more about fares and the airlines intentions more here:

https://www.country94.ca/2024/05/08/...ifax-bathurst/

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7198210

Sandy Ross is saying that it would be around 570.00 for a return trip to Halifax by car???? Not sure math is his specialty. Worth a read lol.

On the bright side of all this is YSJ is the only Atlantic airport that will have 5x weekly service to Bathurst.

Ah the bastion of Journalism that is Country 94 FM.

They at least listed the prices… flights STARTING from $445 round trip.

I think most of us would sooner take the bus or drive than pay that… this caters to business travellers and the odd one way traveller between Saint John and Halifax.

We’d be better server with a bus from Digby to Halifax run in coordination with the ferry than this overpriced, Mickey Mouse flight.

I find it offensive that this was the big announcement they were building hype for, and all it turned out to be was an overpriced puddle jump to Halifax.

Haligonians aren’t interested in taking a vacation to Saint John… New Yorkers and Bostonians could be convinced. Instead of gallivanting around Europeans taking in tourist sites, Higgs should have been sending his Tourism Minster and Tsar to the US Northeast to negotiate new connections to NB airports.

This announcement is seriously weak now that we know it’s going to be around a $500-700 expense to go to Halifax and back. This is a clear cut example of our provincial government just not doing what they should be to boost tourism into New Brunswick by seeking out and subsidizing new routes to and from the province.

You really have to wonder, what the hell were two high ranking NB tourism ministers doing in Europe?

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Why Ottawa?

Boston, New York, DC, Atlanta, they should all be higher on the food chain, as they are all far more useful airports than Ottawa.


We have a solid connection to Toronto as is, most Canadians have no reason to travel to our nations capital, especially not for connecting international flights. Scheduled flights to Ottawa might be good for Wayne Long and our next MP, but it’s not high on the list of places most Saint Johnners and NBers want to go.

A connection to Boston, Montreal, New York, and even Atlanta or D.C. would be far more meaningful. Moreover, I think we could sell American tourists to come here on a vacation far easier than fellow Canadians. Most Canadians west of NB refuse to even believe Saint John and St. John’s are not the same city.

Saint John is a far more interesting travel destination to Americans than Canadians I’ve found. It’s like pulling teeth to get people west of NB to actually come to the maritimes, and if they do, they likely pick Nova Scotia, or Newfoundland, which they believe is part of ther Maritimes (sand can you blame them?)


Saint John should be seeking connections to other huge airports other than YYZ. I’ve flown all over the world from YSJ, and I’ve found on many long haul flights Air Canada won’t overcharge you to get to Toronto or Montreal for the flight where they really make the money off you, they overcharge us on flights anywhere within North America, and make driving or taking the bus to Halifax sometimes worth the added hassle. Where our airport really lacks is direct connections places other than Toronto. We need connections to Montreal far more than we need connections to Ottawa. I’d argue we need connections to New York and Boston even more. The best way to do that is to combine airports with Fredericton. Otherwise, Moncton is going to just utterly dominate it travel to and from the province, which just simply doesn’t reflect the demographic reality of New Brunswick.

I say Ottawa and Toronto because they are the hubs Porter herds people through to connections to points east, west and south, a classic hub and spoke model. The likelihood of Porter adding flights from Saint John to the US is slim to none. I wish it were different as it would give me hope for direct routes on Porter in my own city, but it won't happen for us either.

Montreal may be a possibility with Porter as well since it is also a hub.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Why Ottawa?

Boston, New York, DC, Atlanta, they should all be higher on the food chain, as they are all far more useful airports than Ottawa.


We have a solid connection to Toronto as is, most Canadians have no reason to travel to our nations capital, especially not for connecting international flights. Scheduled flights to Ottawa might be good for Wayne Long and our next MP, but it’s not high on the list of places most Saint Johnners and NBers want to go.

A connection to Boston, Montreal, New York, and even Atlanta or D.C. would be far more meaningful. Moreover, I think we could sell American tourists to come here on a vacation far easier than fellow Canadians. Most Canadians west of NB refuse to even believe Saint John and St. John’s are not the same city.

The problem with our "solid connection" to Toronto stems from AC being the only carrier operating out of YSJ. Fares on AC for flights to various destinations in North America are often double what they are out of Moncton. The reason is pretty simple. As long as Air Canada has a monopoly at YSJ they will charge what they like. In Moncton they compete with Porter and Westjet.

As for flight to US cities...Flights by major US carriers to US cities in the Northeast have been attempted out of both Moncton and Fredericton. In both cases the US airlines chose to discontinue them. In the case of Fredericton the flight was initially subsidized and was discontinued when the funding ran out.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by homebody

Agreed. I just wonder who he is trying to fool. People are not stupid. He is trying to find a way to justify an airfare that is obviously too much. I would drive the 4hrs as opposed to paying four something for a flight to and from Halifax.

Not to mention if Halifax is your final destination you can add $130-$160 to those costs for cab fare from YHZ to downtown and back......and you will have no transportation while you are there.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Anyway, I do feel like Porter will come to Saint John in the near future with flights to Toronto and Ottawa at a minimum. With a growing population there is a need to connect the city more than it currently is.

It's looks like a great city to visit, btw!

I agree Porter is our best hope. They are creating a hub at Montreal Metropolitan with a new terminal set to open next year. A flight that goes YSJ-YHU-YOW might be most likely when Porter's new terminal opens next year.

I have read on aviation sites that Porter has some excess aircraft capacity with the new E195's replacing Q400's on certain routes. The limiting factor right now is pilots.

[Taeolas]

YSJ should really be pushing hard for a US connection, if only to synergize with its cruise ship traffic. I doubt any Americans would fly up just to catch the boat, but having the options be available would probably help out a bit.