[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[MonctonRad]

I too have noticed that some of the more active posters no longer live in the area. We may not have moved away by choice and are still genuinely interested in what's going on in our former home.

Some of us who no longer live in Halifax, moved away for economic reasons such as a lack of job opportunities in our field......

If there had been a job available at the VGH (or Infirmary) when I finished my residency, I would likely still be living in Halifax today.

If you don't want people to move away, then make sure that the city is progressive and economically viable and people would stay!! I think people like Bousquet don't comprehend this (or don't care). They would just prefer the small comfortable Halifax that they knew in their childhood. It must give them a warm and fuzzy feeling...

There are literally thousands of people who did move away who may have preferred to live in Halifax, but couldn't. Just imagine the lost opportunities due to this exodus.

This by the way doesn't mean that I don't like living in Moncton....

[sdm]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I do find it suspicious that he only has made 1 posting. But I think his posting is wrong.

We may feud sometimes but we do try to respect other people's opinions. I also agree with the comment about Fenwick's work on the stadium and echo Worldly's comment about DJ's dedication to this.

But I do have to say that when I saw the LOL - I took it as a joke.

But back to the subject of this thread - it's been about a week now since the money was announced. Anyone have a guess or news about what's going on? I know Rank is reconfirming things - I suspect we'll hear something in mid september.

My understanding is they are looking for tenants to commit now, which leads me to believe the tenants in the past where "interested" but had no formal arrangements in place.

Hopefully they are going to commit formally now, but i am nervous that with the economic uncertainties that are happening globally again that 2 months is not a whole lot of time to secure tenants.

Can they build it without the office tower? or are they required to build it all at once. If memory serves me correct i thought it was required to be done all at once because if it didn't the tax income to the city would be considerably less.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Plus my phone is still registered in Nova Scotia, so I pay HST.

Such a good point!

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Such a good point!

Not really - as I explain to everyone out here; I have technologically inept relatives. A cell phone is slightly above their comprehension.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by haligonia

I think eastcoastal was referring to this post by fenwick:



In stating that most of us like extraordinary highrises and skylines, he was (probably unintenionally) doing the same thing Bosquet does: assume that their opinion represents the opinion of the masses. People like Bosquet are in a minority, but this forum is also a minority group.

I don't wish to start a debate, but polls have indicated that the majority of people in the HRM actually are in favour of modern architecture and highrise buildings. I am not convinced that the people posting on this forum are in the minority. Here is a poll that indicates that a majority of residents favour buildings over 10 stories - http://www.greaterhalifax.com/site-ghp2/media/greaterhalifax/Myths_2008.pdf

There are very few people that I have met in my lifetime who are actually opposed to highrises. Most people actually seem to be impressed by buildings such as the Empire State Building, Sears Tower (or Willis Tower), Golden Gate Bridge, Pyramid Tower, Rogers Centre and other impressive buildings. Locally in the HRM, if you look at pictures posted on Flickr of Halifax, many are of Purdy's Wharf Towers.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I don't get that one??? Can you explain? Are you saying that you like generic highrises?

PS: I don't have a clue what you are stating, eastcoastal - you seem to interpret things in a very unique way ...

Well... when you state that some of US like extraordinary highrises and extraordinary skylines, you bestow superior taste upon yourself. I just thought it was funny to give yourself accolades. Although, maybe I should assume myself to be part of the US you describe as having superlative judgement in the area of tall buildings.

It is a little humourous to imply that because you believe something is extraordinary, it becomes a fact. One person's extraordinary is another person's ordinary.

I'm not implying that I like generic high rises... or that you do.

I'm also not implying that you are wrong (especially if I'm included in US).

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Well... when you state that some of US like extraordinary highrises and extraordinary skylines, you bestow superior taste upon yourself. I just thought it was funny to give yourself accolades. Although, maybe I should assume myself to be part of the US you describe as having superlative judgement in the area of tall buildings.

It is a little humourous to imply that because you believe something is extraordinary, it becomes a fact. One person's extraordinary is another person's ordinary.

I'm not implying that I like generic high rises... or that you do.

I'm also not implying that you are wrong (especially if I'm included in US).

To paraphrase my comment; I believe that most people prefer extraordinary highrises not generic highrises. And yes, I do believe that I and other non-architects can decide which highrises they consider to be extraordinary and which they don't. I didn't give examples of what I consider to be extraordinary in my initial comment. Probably that is why I couldn't understand your initial comment. Your indignation came from your viewpoint that I cannot decide what is extraordinary and what is generic. I won't pretend to have respect for your viewpoint, since I find your viewpoint to be pompous and repugnant.

Below is one of your other comments from the United Gulf thread that was directed at me (since you quoted one of my comments). Calling the general public "Joe Public" is just pure arrogance, in my opinion. A previous poll indicated that the majority of people in the HRM like highrises over 10 storeys - http://www.greaterhalifax.com/site-ghp2/media/greaterhalifax/Myths_2008.pdf. However, based on your opinion, the general public should be ignored.

(source of your previous comment: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5354882#post5354882 )

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Sorry I wasn't clear. I did understand that you didn't particularly favour this proposal, but that you were critical of the heights set by HRMbyDesign which you felt were arbitrary.

Why bother hiring professionals if you're going to let Joe Public make the rules anyway? I think the public workshops were held to get public opinion, but ultimately, it was the professionals who made recommendations (that council changed at will anyway). While I think the public is perfectly capable of stating its opinions, I do not believe it is educated enough to function as an urban planner or urban designer. Just does not have the education.

While I can only speculate on the reasons for establishing a height below the ramparts (not being an educated planner or urban designer myself), I have to wonder if the new height is any less arbitrary than the ramparts law. I know, the ramparts bylaw is based on not seeing buildings from 5 (or so) predetermined points in the parade square of the citadel. I'm sorry, but I think that's a pretty messed up way to guide the urban form of a city people actually live and work in - to make it feel like good-ole-scalping-indians-days from inside an old fort built by our former colonial masters?

So, HRMbyDesign is supposed to be guided by best practices of contemporary urban planning and design. Ostensibly, the heights are guided by the public workshops held, advice from real estate and design professionals, and the input from the (presumably) educated professionals hired to give advice. While I can't say they are absolutely the right heights now, I can't really say that they are better or worse than the ramparts laws. What I will say, is that the intended coherency of heights that relate from one block to the next (I know... doesn't always happen...) is important, and that height planned on a multi-block scale may be the right step.

I don't know if there is a realistic condo market for a building like this. Even if there was, I think something like this might put a serious pause on any other residential development downtown for some time.

[Jstaleness]

Is this still the Nova Centre Thread? I'm glad we can all debate. I'm wondering though if we shouldn't open another thread if we want to debate what we believe is extraordinary. I mean no disrespect by this, numerous threads have gone way off topic in the past.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Anyway, this development is going to happen, so the previous debates are somewhat moot.

To move this thread back in the right direction... any speculation on who the tennants will be? There are alot of financial institutions that could open offices down from Toronto, or the US, Europe.

I'm really suprised we don't have any major international banks with offices in Halifax given our strategic location for NYC (ahead by an hour).

[sdm]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Anyway, this development is going to happen, so the previous debates are somewhat moot.

To move this thread back in the right direction... any speculation on who the tennants will be? There are alot of financial institutions that could open offices down from Toronto, or the US, Europe.

I'm really suprised we don't have any major international banks with offices in Halifax given our strategic location for NYC (ahead by an hour).

Financial institutions are not going to move to Halifax from Toronto. Besides all the major banks have all recently, or are building new development in downtown Toronto.

You may get some back of house call centres for banks and hedge funds, but they typically don't pay the rent required of new builds.

[haligonia]

*Sorry for continuing the debate*

Fenwick, I think that eastcoastal was trying to say that every person has a different idea of "extraordinary". For example, some people love the Transamerica Pyramid, and others hate it. Whether or not a highrise is extraordinary cannot be determined by one person (architect or non-architect). It doesn't mean that one person's opinion doesn't matter or is invalid, it just means we all have different taste.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by sdm

Financial institutions are not going to move to Halifax from Toronto. Besides all the major banks have all recently, or are building new development in downtown Toronto.

You may get some back of house call centres for banks and hedge funds, but they typically don't pay the rent required of new builds.

I don't mean "move", I mean establish a branch office.

There are plenty of FIs and banks in western Canada that could be candidates as well.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I don't mean "move", I mean establish a branch office.

There are plenty of FIs and banks in western Canada that could be candidates as well.

I have a bit of a different take on this. I have to agree with SDM, there are already branch offices of the major banks in Halifax. What you might see happen is that one of them might move to this building because they are located in an older office tower and want newer/modern office space.

Where I think HRM might be suited for some professional office is in marine insurance. Lloyd's of London and other marine insurance underwriters that sort of thing. Considering the marine port and off-shore oil activites, it would seem a very suitable and logical thing to encourage. I'm not sure if such offices are in Halifax now, but considering it could be a maritime branch it might be worth while. I'm just not sure how you would go about encouraging such offices to locate in Halifax.

The other thing to consider is that with oil hovering (on average) around $90/barrel, off-shore oil has become profitable again. Although it's only been some time since the gulf oil spill, in about a year I suspect there will be more interest. So convincing some of the off-shore oil players to put branch offices in Halifax is another idea, although one of them moved to NFLD recently. I'd be interested to find out part of ther reasons for that (I have a suspicion they may have gotten some generous exemptions on property, business taxes and some grants to move there - something HRM or NS Economic Development could do).

[fenwick16]

Ok let's end the debates.

Regarding the Nova Centre office space. I personally don't think that the Nova Centre has an overwhelming abundance of office space. It has been stated in the local media that the Nova Centre will have 1,200,000 square feet of new space. However, there was an article about a year or two ago (time goes by quickly) that gave the impression that the two levels of underground parking were being included in that calculation. The underground parking area is probably close to 200,000 square (based on the site dimensions x 2 levels).

The convention centre has slightly more than 300,000 gross square feet of space (that includes everything, hallways, lobbies, kitchens, washrooms, etc. - source - https://conventioncentreinfo.com/about/overview/ ). It appears as though the hotel will have approximately 250,000 square feet (this is a guesstimate based on the lot size and number of storeys). There is also retail space which could be 100,000 square feet or so. Adding all these numbers up, I get 850K of space (including the parking space). So the remaining space, if office space, would be 350K square feet or so. The office space consists of a fairly slender 11-12 storey office tower on a large podium (14 storeys total), so it doesn't look like an excessive amount of office space.

Joe Ramia of Rank Inc. has stated in the past (in the media, and at an HRM televised meeting) that he would allocate some of the office space to residential if he didn't have sufficient office tenants lined up. So potentially the Nova Centre office space could only be 200K - 300K square feet (this is just my conjecture). This doesn't seem like an overwhelming amount as far as finding tenants goes. Some businesses will want to be associated with a convention centre that has an abundance of meeting rooms.

Having a hotel that is connected to a convention centre should make it easier to find a hotel operator. As far as parking goes, it is required downtown. Residential space in that area seems to be in demand (fairly close to Spring Garden Road). So Rank Inc. may not have too difficult of a time to find the necessary tenants (although 2 months seems like a very tight schedule to get all the commitments).

[Empire]

Originally Posted by sdm

Financial institutions are not going to move to Halifax from Toronto. Besides all the major banks have all recently, or are building new development in downtown Toronto.

You may get some back of house call centres for banks and hedge funds, but they typically don't pay the rent required of new builds.

It is possible that no one is lined up and the real marketing could only begin when the feds came on board? It will be interesting to see if joe applies for an extension on hunting down offshore reinsurers.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Empire

It is possible that no one is lined up and the real marketing could only begin when the feds came on board? It will be interesting to see if joe applies for an extension on hunting down offshore reinsurers.

I don't know if he'd really need that much time...some of the buildings that some of the banks are in are getting up there in age. The CIBC building office space isn't that great on the upper levels and the same with the Royal Bank building.

If he was able to score one of the banks out of the existing towers in the financial 'district' - then he'd have scored a good chunk of his office space filled, then we might see the redevelopment of an older office tower (or major renovation).

Fenwick also makes an interesting point that I forgot about. Joe Ramia did say he'd shift some of the commercial component to residential if the market still wasn't strong enough. Considering the downtown could use all the residential it could get; this may be a good thing. But I wonder if this might be why there is a delay (or part of it) - he's looking over the financials of what a greater residential component would look like and how much of a hit to his profit there would be?

[q12]

Group irked by convention centre opinion poll

Desiree Finhert Sep 13, 2011 05:26:04 AM

http://www.news957.com/news/local/article/276744--group-irked-by-convention-centre-opinion-poll

Even more money is being spent on the multi-million dollar World Trade and Convention Centre proposed for downtown Halifax and this time it's on an opinion poll.

At least one member of the Save the View conservation group was randomly selected to participate in the survey on Friday and asked questions which have now raised more questions of their own.

I find this funny how STV are such sore losers. They tried make the public think the convention centre was a bad idea, when all they wanted was to stop a tall building from being constructed.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I don't want to get into the whole "NDP" debate again... but I would bet money that these sore losers (STV and co.) generally voted for the NDP.

Now they don't trust Dexter (who is doing a pretty good job) just because he's pragmatic on this issue? Wow, they probably helped get him into office.

It doesn't get more democratic than that, so I don't want to hear any more bullshit from these clowns on how this is unfair. You lost and you can't push your fringe agenda on us any more. It sucks that the general public isn't educated on this issue, but ultimately the lies and misinformation did nothing but discredit each and every member associated with these groups. I won't forget who they are, especially the ones who try to take credit when this turns out to be a success.

I'm sorry, but these people are out to lunch... calling themselves a conservation group? We're not talking about killing whales here, we are talking about high density downtown development, that, regardless of what they say is viable and needed. And good for NS, our environment, our downtown.

Who are they going to vote for going forward? Provincial cons, libs, and new dems party lines were in support of this... The marijauna party wouldn't even let these folks in because they are for legalizing, not opposing!

[halifaxboyns]

Its one thing for preserving heritage because it was subject of a very ill conceived road plan (Harbour Drive) and even the viewplane argument back in the late 60's has some merits...but to be involved in this argument is purely and unabashedly obstructionist, pure and simple.

This group (and others like it) think they are doing a favour to the city by doing all this. This begs the question: Have they ever asked people in a formal, statistical pole? I suspect most people would tell them to get stuffed if they really knew the truth...

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I don't want to get into the whole "NDP" debate again... but I would bet money that these sore losers (STV and co.) generally voted for the NDP.

Now they don't trust Dexter (who is doing a pretty good job) just because he's pragmatic on this issue? Wow, they probably helped get him into office.

It doesn't get more democratic than that, so I don't want to hear any more bullshit from these clowns on how this is unfair.

Or, to paraphrase: you don't want anyone responding in the NDP's defence after you bash them, because a serious stance of not desiring a debate would require you 'backspacing' all of that... and not saying anything to begin with.

I have voted NDP before, and shall in the future.
I support the Convention Centre.

I know people of all political parties that are against this development; it's not just the 'clowns'. Regardless, the centre will be built, likely starting next spring.

These sore losers will get over it. Now it's your turn.