Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

That sounds crazy. The economy needs stimulating not austerity measures.

Maybe the latter's a better option. They will make Pallister so unpopular that he's for sure out come election. Maybe the NDP will get things built. Granted, they have the reputation of making people pay more for less due to unionized wage. However, with PTH-100 already twinned, they sort of have no choice but to actually build the interchanges. Thankfully, Headingley Bypass is still only a concept so they can't half-bake that. Things may work out.

Thoughts? I finish my rants.

[Wpgstvsouth94]

Hey guys, was driving by st Mary’s and the perimeter tonight and noticed they are putting an acceleration lane for westbound traffic. This would explain the street lamps I’ve noticed them moving these past couple weeks. I don’t get the point of this when they are starting the interchange in 2021???

[esquire]

^ Better late than never?

Adding proper merge lanes at that intersection is super low hanging fruit in terms of cheap but meaningful improvements. Makes you wonder why it wasn't done 5 or 10 or 40 years ago...

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Better late than never?

Adding proper merge lanes at that intersection is super low hanging fruit in terms of cheap but meaningful improvements. Makes you wonder why it wasn't done 5 or 10 or 40 years ago...

Definitely a low hanging fruit that didn't cost too much. It's worth adding that the new interchange will not be exactly where the current intersection is right now, so the acceleration lane will still be used for the greater part of this construction project.

The new interchange will be to the east a little bit (~300-400m based on the boards for the South Perimeter Design Study)

[bomberjet]

Hey we're $2.9 billion in debt. Let's borrow more money to see if we can stimulate people to spend money. I'm no economist but it doesn't really make sense to me.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Hey we're $2.9 billion in debt. Let's borrow more money to see if we can stimulate people to spend money. I'm no economist but it doesn't really make sense to me.

Getting traffic free flowing (hence improving flow of goods and quality of life?) on PTH 100 might. I’m no economist either, so I’m curious if my points are valid.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Hey we're $2.9 billion in debt. Let's borrow more money to see if we can stimulate people to spend money. I'm no economist but it doesn't really make sense to me.

The notion is that when private money stops flowing, the government can prop up demand by spending more during recessions. During a recession, people spend less because either they lost their job or because they're afraid they will lose their job. Because they spend less, stores sell less and factories produce less, so they lay off their workers. You end up in a positive feedback loop of job loss. Government spending can break the loop by creating demand so companies need to hire and those hired employees spend money, etc.

The cost of extra interest payments is less than the effects of an unmitigated recession/depression.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Hey we're $2.9 billion in debt. Let's borrow more money to see if we can stimulate people to spend money. I'm no economist but it doesn't really make sense to me.

If the return you get on the money from direct and indirect taxation due to the increased economic activity is higher than the cost plus interest, then this makes perfect sense.

[bomberjet]

I understand stimulus spending. But like 3 bil in debt. We're not going to stimulus spend our way out of that in Manitoba.

I see the covid impacts as a temporary thing and we will eventually get back to a decent level of activity at some point. Likely not pre covid levels, but something decent.

Like I said, I'm no economist lol

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I understand stimulus spending. But like 3 bil in debt. We're not going to stimulus spend our way out of that in Manitoba.

No, but interest rates are low and the need is there. Governments look at this stuff on a 20, 30, 40 year basis.

Maybe there will be less happening than usual over the next few years as a result of what's going on now, but that doesn't mean that everything's going to stop, either... unless there is some kind of massive fiscal crisis that completely paralyzes the province, which I suppose is always a possibility.

[bomberjet]

Such as a 3 billion dollar deficit! That's massive for the Province. haha

Anyways, we'll see what happens. I'll be pretty happy if we get the St. Mary's interchange going and the floodway bridges at the same time. Just not expecting anything more substantial than those 2 projects for a long time to come.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Such as a 3 billion dollar deficit! That's massive for the Province. haha

Anyways, we'll see what happens. I'll be pretty happy if we get the St. Mary's interchange going and the floodway bridges at the same time. Just not expecting anything more substantial than those 2 projects for a long time to come.

The current situation is not ideal, but I doubt the lenders have cut off the province... that's what I mean by 'massive fiscal crisis'.

That said, I think you may be right... plans for a bigger overhaul of the South Perimeter may be out the window, I could see it being just spot improvements like the ones you mentioned, plus a couple of other things like that.

[Winnipeg Grump]

Come for the updates on the Perimeter projects - stay for a discussion on Keynesian economic theory! :-D

[Biff]

So the St Mary's interchange is progressing along. They have made some changes for the short term (20 years). They are only putting 2 lanes + active transportation over the Perimeter with traffic circles at either end. When capacity dictates they will add another bridge to make St Mary's 4 lanes.

I like that they are making these cost savings to make the project work. Right now we don't need a full systems or even a 4 lane road (St Mary's) at that point. What we need is Grade Separation which is what we will get. I hate saying it, but smart move.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Biff

So the St Mary's interchange is progressing along. They have made some changes for the short term (20 years). They are only putting 2 lanes + active transportation over the Perimeter with traffic circles at either end. When capacity dictates they will add another bridge to make St Mary's 4 lanes.

I like that they are making these cost savings to make the project work. Right now we don't need a full systems or even a 4 lane road (St Mary's) at that point. What we need is Grade Separation which is what we will get. I hate saying it, but smart move.

I get that one thing we have a lot of is land around here, but geez, for a simple diamond interchange with a couple small roundabouts, they're certainly taking up as much land as they can, or so it seems. I've had the fortune to travel all around the world, and much more efficient designs in terms of land use are common in the rest of the world, including the US, but especially on the major motorways in Europe.

What makes us so different? Is this a cost thing?

[plrh]

What happens to St. Mary's south of the structure? Does it make a hard westward turn? Or does it imply a new future N/S route? See Sheet 3...

[Biff]

Part of the problem is that Hydro substation in the NE corner of the interchange.

It should go up quite quickly as they are using MSE walls rather that earth approaches.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by plrh

What happens to St. Mary's south of the structure? Does it make a hard westward turn? Or does it imply a new future N/S route? See Sheet 3...

It connects to St Mary's Rd south of St Mary's nursery....between Viking Rd and Paul Blvd.

[roccerfeller]

Is construction expected to start in the spring?

Grade separation there is long over due and Im sure will be welcomed

[esquire]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I get that one thing we have a lot of is land around here, but geez, for a simple diamond interchange with a couple small roundabouts, they're certainly taking up as much land as they can, or so it seems. I've had the fortune to travel all around the world, and much more efficient designs in terms of land use are common in the rest of the world, including the US, but especially on the major motorways in Europe.

What makes us so different? Is this a cost thing?

Yeah, I'm grateful that they're finally moving ahead with the grade separation, but man, that is such a sprawling beast of a diamond with so many twists and curves including that beloved Manitoba quirk, other roads intersecting with on/off ramps. How did nobody think ahead when Hydro put that substation there? I guess the layout is intended to eventually accommodate a diverging diamond layout, but it's still so weird.

What is the final stage plan? Will there be any other grade separations beyond the basic NB/SB over 100? I can't quite tell from the shaded gray lanes showing in the diagram.