Atlantic Canada airport thread

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Well, I guess the next obvious question is what would you call this airport shared by both Saint John and Fredericton that would clear up confusion on which airport to fly to?

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Right. Back on topic.

Saint John and Fredericton should probably share an airport one day in the not too distant future. Not only would sharing an airport located midway result in cheaper, more frequent flights, it would alleviate a lot of the Saint John/St. John’s confusion when it came to booking flights.

NB-7 would need to be fully twinned first to allow quick road access from both cities to this new airport. Welsford Int'l Airport I presume!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Well, I guess the next obvious question is what would you call this airport shared by both Saint John and Fredericton that would clear up confusion on which airport to fly to?

Perhaps just New Brunswick International Airport? (New Brunswick, NJ doesn’t have an airport)

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Well, I guess the next obvious question is what would you call this airport shared by both Saint John and Fredericton that would clear up confusion on which airport to fly to?

I have conceptual plans for such an airport and research done as part of my undergrad, if you want to see it. It would be realigned west of the base and have initial passenger numbers in the 500K range annually, comparable to Moncton or Waterloo Regional.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

I have conceptual plans for such an airport and research done as part of my undergrad, if you want to see it. It would be realigned west of the base and have initial passenger numbers in the 500K range annually, comparable to Moncton or Waterloo Regional.

Sure we’d all like to see. It seems like such an obvious, logical solution to lower ticket prices and increase the amount of flights, for both cities!

Lessening the airport confusion between Saint John and St. John’s is just the icing on the cake. I’m sure St. John’sers would love to stop having to tell people “MAKE SURE NOT SAINT JOHN YSJ” anytime they have friends booking flights to come visit them.

The only question is does it make more sense to locate it west of the base, or east of the base? East of the base would make it a more viable option for the Moncton market. In theory, a more direct competition between the province’s two largest airports could lower costs further and result in even more routes for New Brunswick as a whole. Within the base might actually make the very most sense, if the military and government could ever come to an agreement to locate the airport directly midway between SJ and Fredericton, which is around a 35-40 minute drive for both Saint John and Fredericton.



It wouldn’t exactly be "fair" to the rest of southwest NB, but population density ↑ matters more to airlines than regional fairness. Plus, they are still the closest part of NB to the Bangor Airport.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Sure we’d all like to see. It seems like such an obvious, logical solution to lower ticket prices and increase the amount of flights, for both cities!

Lessening the airport confusion between Saint John and St. John’s is just the icing on the cake. I’m sure St. John’sers would love to stop having to tell people “MAKE SURE NOT SAINT JOHN YSJ” anytime they have friends booking flights to come visit them.

The only question is does it make more sense to locate it west of the base, or east of the base? East of the base would make it a more viable option for the Moncton market. In theory, a more direct competition between the province’s two largest airports could lower costs further and result in even more routes for New Brunswick as a whole. Within the base might actually make the very most sense, if the military and government could ever come to an agreement to locate the airport directly midway between SJ and Fredericton, which is around a 35-40 minute drive for both Saint John and Fredericton.



It wouldn’t exactly be "fair" to the rest of southwest NB, but population density ↑ matters more to airlines than regional fairness. Plus, they are still the closest part of NB to the Bangor Airport.

I've never had an issue with people not knowing the difference between St. John's and Saint John. If anything, it was the spelling of Saint John as St. John. And I come from a unique perspective; born in Saint John and grew up in St. John's!

Don't think there would be much of an issue from Fredericton folks if a new regional airport was further south; given YFC is located in Lincoln. It would be another 15-20 minutes further. Saint John folks may not be too happy with location around the base; especially those living in the KV.

Would there be more flights at a combined YFC/YSJ? Or would the airlines simply consolidate flights with larger aircraft?

[DyAm00394]

An interesting new article:

Airport, airline officials react to WestJet CEO’s comments about one major N.B. airport

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/more/air...port-1.6871458

"From an airline perspective, WestJet CEO Alexis von Honesbroech says having three major airports all within two hours of one another isn’t helping land more flights.

“Right now you are splitting the traffic across three different airports, and I understand why the cities want to have their own airport, but this also means that the demand is subcritical in all three of them to many destinations,” von Honesbroech told CTV News Atlantic lead anchor Todd Battis in a sit down interview on Wednesday during a visit to Atlantic Canada. “Consolidating them all into one would certainly improve the connectivity for New Brunswick. On the other hand I fully understand why this is not happening at this point in time, but in the long run maybe there is an opportunity.”

The discussion of the need for three major airports in the province (located in Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton) is nothing new to New Brunswickers.

Some of the province’s airports offer no more than a handful of flights per day. In comparison, Halifax Stanfield International Airport (the region’s largest airport) is slated to see roughly 100 flights arriving and departing each day this week.

Former Air Canada COO Duncan Dee agrees with the WestJet CEO, and says slicing New Brunswick’s small market across multiple airports isn’t helping attract airlines.

“The only time of year that any of those airports make sense on their own is probably the two, maybe three months in the summer peak when virtually every flight that is operated in Canada on the domestic market is full,” Dee believes.

Dee also points out the nation’s larger airlines no longer fly the small turbo prop aircrafts New Brunswickers used to fly more regularly.

“It’s a recipe for disaster in terms of air services to the province,” he said.

The former COO also notes New Brunswick has put more of an effort into tourism in recent years, but says the province’s air service approach is counterproductive. The focus of airports has been on winter flights to sunny destinations, says Dee, which is great for locals, but not for getting tourist into New Brunswick.

While airlines support the idea of a central major hub, airport officials have a different take on the matter.

Nadia MacDonald, executive director of the Atlantic Canada Airports Association, says the airports in the province are doing a great job in boosting tourism and moving and serving passengers in New Brunswick.

“In 2023 the province moved over 1.1 million passengers,” says MacDonald. “Air service is essential to this region. We move cargo, goods, perishables, as well as passengers and cities around these airports have established businesses that have been there for years.”

MacDonald also highlighted the growth seen in New Brunswick and Atlantic Canada as a whole. She says the population growth is just another example as to why these airports are important to their communities, on top of the jobs they create for their region.

In 2022, New Brunswick released a five-year Air Sector Strategy, which determined closing any of the province’s existing airports (including the small airport in Bathurst) in favour of one centralized hub wasn’t the answer to any travel related issues.

“New Brunswick’s airports are operated as non-profits,” reminds MacDonald. “They are community-based corporations and they support the communities in which they serve. They do an excellent job of maintaining their high-quality facilities and servicing their communities. The economic benefit to the communities that they serve, there is a huge value in keeping them separate.”

MacDonald says the province is seeing roughly 84 per cent of the travel numbers seen before the pandemic".

[Justanothermember]

Three cities; one airport.

I didn't realise that concept was being taken seriously.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Three cities; one airport.

I didn't realise this was being taken seriously.

It isn't.

The idea of a single new airport in Sussex to service the entire province would easily cost at least a couple of billion dollars (in construction costs alone).

You're talking land acquisition/expropriation, site preparation, construction of runways and taxiways, hangars and support services and a new terminal, as well as access roads and parking. Then you would have to provide subsidized shuttle bus service to all three cities from the airport.

And, then you would have three existing airports that presumably would have to be decommissioned (with their own inherent costs).

This is a financial millstone that no government, federal or provincial would touch with a 50 metre pole.

I think the WestJet president was suggesting that one of the existing airports be designated as the principal central airport for the province. I think you know which one that would be.

He wants the province to make the decision, but, really, there is nothing to prevent the WestJet President from making a presumptive decision himself. He could choose to conduct WestJet's business in NB from a single airport. There is nothing to prevent him from doing so.

This summer, Westjet will be providing service from YQM to Calgary, Edmonton and Toronto.

Hmmmm.......

[stephan.richard]

Here in New Brunswick this is how I would see it. All international and transborder flights plus transcontinental flights should be out of YQM, and YFC, YSJ and ZBF be given flights only as far as Toronto. In the province the traffic is too diluted between the three airports.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It isn't.

The idea of a single new airport in Sussex to service the entire province would easily cost at least a couple of billion dollars (in construction costs alone).

You're talking land acquisition/expropriation, site preparation, construction of runways and taxiways, hangars and support services and a new terminal, as well as access roads and parking. Then you would have to provide subsidized shuttle bus service to all three cities from the airport.

And, then you would have three existing airports that presumably would have to be decommissioned (with their own inherent costs).

This is a financial millstone that no government, federal or provincial would touch with a 50 metre pole.

I think the WestJet president was suggesting that one of the existing airports be designated as the principal central airport for the province. I think you know which one that would be.

He wants the province to make the decision, but, really, there is nothing to prevent the WestJet President from making a presumptive decision himself. He could choose to conduct WestJet's business in NB from a single airport. There is nothing to prevent him from doing so.

This summer, Westjet will be providing service from YQM to Calgary, Edmonton and Toronto.

Hmmmm.......

It might be taken seriously yet, but Fredericton and Saint John sharing a single airport should definitely be taken more seriously sooner than later.

SJ and Fredericton are way too close together for it not to be considered. If there could ever be agreement between the province, Feds, and military, we could have a shared SJ/Freddericton airport a 35-45 minute drive for people in both cities.

Blissville would be only slightly further than building within the base, and not require as much cooperation from the military.

To suggest Moncton Airport serve as the only real airport for the province would never be accepted by voters in Saint John and Fredericton.


Two major airports is better than 1 major and 2 minor ones. Arguably, it could even be better than one centralized in Sussex, as it could result in more competition for better fares and diversity in routes.

[sailor734]

I think we are way, way too far down the path of three airports to change now. Too much money spent and too much infrastructure created to walk away. The benefits from a single regional airport or even one just replacing YFC and YSJ wouldn't come anywhere near to justifying the huge costs involved.

I suspect what we will continue to see is YQM becoming the de facto major airport for NB with YFC and YSJ having mostly connector flights to Toronto or Montreal as well as some charter flights to sun destinations in the winter.

The wild card in all of this is what Porter looks like in 5-10 years. Will their North American expansion succeed or will Air Canada decide they are enough of a threat to take serious action?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I think we are way, way too far down the path of three airports to change now. Too much money spent and too much infrastructure created to walk away. The benefits from a single regional airport or even one just replacing YFC and YSJ wouldn't come anywhere near to justifying the huge costs involved.

I suspect what we will continue to see is YQM becoming the de facto major airport for NB with YFC and YSJ having mostly connector flights to Toronto or Montreal as well as some charter flights to sun destinations in the winter.

The wild card in all of this is what Porter looks like in 5-10 years. Will their North American expansion succeed or will Air Canada decide they are enough of a threat to take serious action?

Now or ever?

It’s very much worth considering a joint SJ/Fredericton airport in the not too distant future. Far more money has been pumped into YQM than YFC or YSJ. If NB’s population keeps growing at the current rate, it will make more and more sense.

Don’t know which provincial government decided to locate YSJ and YFC where they are, and why, but damn did they lack foresight!

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Now or ever?

It’s very much worth considering a joint SJ/Fredericton airport in the not too distant future. Far more money has been pumped into YQM than YFC or YSJ. If NB’s population keeps growing at the current rate, it will make more and more sense.

Don’t know which provincial government decided to locate YSJ and YFC where they are, and why, but damn did they lack foresight!

The planning for YFC dates to the 1940s. Don't think we can blame a lack of foresight for this situation.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by OliverD

The planning for YFC dates to the 1940s. Don't think we can blame a lack of foresight for this situation.

^This

YSJ's present location was chosen in the late '40's as well (opened in 1952)

You have to remember that intercity travel was a very different proposition in the 1940's

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

^This

YSJ's present location was chosen in the late '40's as well (opened in 1952)

You have to remember that intercity travel was a very different proposition in the 1940's

So we should keep the two under-served airports as is, based on decisions made in the 1940’s?

At some point, the province and Transport Canada need to seriously look at Fredericton and Saint John sharing a new airport.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

So we should keep the two under-served airports as is, based on decisions made in the 1940’s?

At some point, the province and Transport Canada need to seriously look at Fredericton and Saint John sharing a new airport.

It's not that long ago when NB had seven airports with commercial air traffic. The NB situation is similar to what happened on the West Coast of Newfoundland; with Stephenville and Deer Lake airports. At one time, Stephenville was the main airport in that region. Gradually, airlines moved service to Deer Lake and Stephenville today has no commercial air service.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

So we should keep the two under-served airports as is, based on decisions made in the 1940’s?

At some point, the province and Transport Canada need to seriously look at Fredericton and Saint John sharing a new airport.

What are you on about? We're just pointing out that blaming a lack of foresight for the current situation doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean we don't think a shared airport is a good idea.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by OliverD

What are you on about? We're just pointing out that blaming a lack of foresight for the current situation doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean we don't think a shared airport is a good idea.

Yes, that was my point too.

Politicians are notoriously shortsighted as they tend to think in 4 year election cycles. I think convincing them to spend billions on a new airport in NB would be a VERY hard sell......and even if you could do it I'm not sure the benefit would be worth the cost or worth the loss of other projects that would have be forgone.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Oh yes, the CEO of a major airline suggests an idea that costs billions of tax payers dollars and only make his company more money, I wonder why he would suggest such a thing? I am shocked!

Say we went all in with YQM, 10 years from now he'd be saying the same thing about YQM and YHZ, no point in having two major airports that have 1/10 of YYZ traffic so close together.

From my understanding, the federal government invests significantly more amount than the province, so why would the province handicap two of its major cities by closing their airports, which does help each city grow. Could you imagine this decision was made in the 80's when Saint John was the major city so it likely would have been the major airport, and you likely wouldn't be seeing Moncton growing like it is today.

Either way, there's only about 1M passengers/year currently through the 3 airports. With 1, we would likely just predominately go through Montreal/Toronto for any significant destinations, or would need to drive to Halifax. If you don't believe me, look at Abbotsford International Airport departure/arrival page, which reportedly has 1.3M passengers annually: Calgary, Calgary, Edmonton, Edmonton, Toronto Repeat.... At least now half of us would have longer drives while all of us will have the pleasure of longer security checks and a bigger waiting room, I'm just dying with excitement!

We're just too small of a population base to think our "major" airport would suddenly be supporting all these wonderful destinations at discount pricing.