The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Have you read urbandreamer's posts over the years?

He once referred to Calgary's Bow River, which gets its source from Bow glacier in the Rockies, as a sewage canal

Oh I know, he's up there with the most insane takes. He's probably won the award 5 years running.

[Nouvellecosse]

I feel like the Micra is good in some ways but I was always disappointed that its fuel economy wasn't better given its small size and modest power output. Autotrader.ca has it as 8.7/6.8/7.9 L/100 km cty/hwy/combined which is poorer than not only many small hatchbacks but even larger non-hybrid cars like the Toyota Camry. They have the 4 cylinder non-hybrid Camry at 8.4/6.0/7.3 L/100 km cty/hwy/combined. Sure a sedan has a more aerodynamic shape which would affect highway economy, but come on.

[urbandreamer]

The enemy of fun is weight. Since electric vehicles and SUVs are heavy, they'll never be much fun to drive outside of a straight line acceleration. The Micra uses older engines from Renault so fuel economy may not be as good as a $50,000 Camry. Considering the initial base price for the Micra S (I got mine used with under 40,000km for $5900), and the fact I've driven on many amazing yet empty roads across Canada and the US, most SUV/sportscar/luxury drivers are wasting their money, as they spend most of their time on a tedious commute or in the driveway.

I compared the aesthetics of the concrete and lack of landscaping of the Bow River through central Calgary to a sewage canal - compared to the attractive central design of Vancouver or Montreal, Calgary is a dump lol.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

The enemy of fun is weight. Since electric vehicles and SUVs are heavy, they'll never be much fun to drive outside of a straight line acceleration. The Micra uses older engines from Renault so fuel economy may not be as good as a $50,000 Camry. Considering the initial base price for the Micra S (I got mine used with under 40,000km for $5900), and the fact I've driven on many amazing yet empty roads across Canada and the US, most SUV/sportscar/luxury drivers are wasting their money, as they spend most of their time on a tedious commute or in the driveway.

I compared the aesthetics of the concrete and lack of landscaping of the Bow River through central Calgary to a sewage canal - compared to the attractive central design of Vancouver or Montreal, Calgary is a dump lol.

The base model of the 4-cylinder Camry starts mid $30k, but that's kind of irrelevant. Unless you're talking about special technologies such as hybrids, being more expensive doesn't usually make for better fuel economy. In fact, the opposite is true. The most fuel efficient non-hybrid is the Mitsubishi Mirage which competes with the Micra for being one of the cheapest new cars recently sold in Canada. The Micra just isn't very efficient for its size. No need for excuses, it just is what it is. Every vehicle has its strengths and weaknesses and efficiency isn't its strength.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

The enemy of fun is weight. Since electric vehicles and SUVs are heavy, they'll never be much fun to drive outside of a straight line acceleration. The Micra uses older engines from Renault so fuel economy may not be as good as a $50,000 Camry. Considering the initial base price for the Micra S (I got mine used with under 40,000km for $5900), and the fact I've driven on many amazing yet empty roads across Canada and the US, most SUV/sportscar/luxury drivers are wasting their money, as they spend most of their time on a tedious commute or in the driveway.

I compared the aesthetics of the concrete and lack of landscaping of the Bow River through central Calgary to a sewage canal - compared to the attractive central design of Vancouver or Montreal, Calgary is a dump lol.

I guess it depends on one's idea of fun. This looks like fun to me:

• Video Link

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

The enemy of fun is weight. Since electric vehicles and SUVs are heavy, they'll never be much fun to drive outside of a straight line acceleration.

I'm not sure where this view comes from. Centre of Gravity is a bigger factor in nimbleness than weight. And EVs are better on that than their gasoline counterparts most of the time.

What makes small cars fun to drive is usually the lower CG, a driver position closer to the Centre of Gravity and a static margin where the Centre of Mass is closer to the centre of gravity. With the exception of the driver sitting closer to the centre, a lot of the rest should be similar for BEVs with floor mounted batteries. So like for like the the BEV version should usually beat the gas version on manoeuvrability. Of course, if you're comparing a Hummer EV to Micra, the latter will probably fare better.

Not a direct comparison, but the Moose test should prove useful here:

• Video Link

[WarrenC12]

Somebody going hard on the Nissan Micra is absolutely hilarious.

[urbandreamer]

And I've turned mine into a MicraRV. Anyways, mostly the saying goes "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."

I wouldn't even pay $100 for a new Camry: dull taxicab styling. I didn’t mind the 1992 sedan and especially fondly remember the 1983 Camry advertised in National Geographic.

[Wigs]

speaking of moose tests, I miss Saab. The Swedish brand, like Volvo, was designed with a safety first mentality.

Saab was designed to withstand a head on impact with a moose! How many sedans/4 door passenger vehicles could say that?

• Video Link
skip to 1:50

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

And I've turned mine into a MicraRV. Anyways, mostly the saying goes "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."

I wouldn't even pay $100 for a new Camry: dull taxicab styling. I didn’t mind the 1992 sedan and especially fondly remember the 1983 Camry advertised in National Geographic.

photos, please. we gotta see this!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A strong contender for most ridiculous statement of 2023.

I was honestly questioning if I was totally off base on what a Nissan Micra is.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

The enemy of fun is weight. Since electric vehicles and SUVs are heavy, they'll never be much fun to drive outside of a straight line acceleration.

Anything is fun, if you drive it in a fun fashion. It's finding the limits, whatever those limits are. Unless you're trying to do it faster than somebody else, it doesn't really matter if it's a Micra, Corolla, Silverado, or a lawnmower.

Got a little sideways + muddy in a freshly harvested wheat field in my Silverado this weekend. THAT was fun

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Somebody going hard on the Nissan Micra is absolutely hilarious.

While it maybe a bit over the top it highlights that cheap new cars models on offer are disappearing fast. And there will be a downstream effect of that in the used market.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by whatnext

While it maybe a bit over the top it highlights that cheap new cars models on offer are disappearing fast. And there will be a downstream effect of that in the used market.

Yes, students in particular will have a tough go of it when looking for an inexpensive first car.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

While it maybe a bit over the top it highlights that cheap new cars models on offer are disappearing fast. And there will be a downstream effect of that in the used market.

A broad reflection of growing wealth inequality, with new car sales going to a smaller and smaller part of the population. Automakers are catering to who buys their cars.

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Yes, students in particular will have a tough go of it when looking for an inexpensive first car.

There's a reason fewer and fewer young people are getting their licenses or buying cars.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A broad reflection of growing wealth inequality, with new car sales going to a smaller and smaller part of the population. Automakers are catering to who buys their cars.

Almost seems like there is a good business opportunity to manufacture and sell low-cost compact cars to the large segment of the population unwilling or unable to spend $75,000 on a Silverado. At some point Chinese manufacturers well-versed in small, cheap cars will start selling their product here...

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A broad reflection of growing wealth inequality, with new car sales going to a smaller and smaller part of the population. Automakers are catering to who buys their cars.



There's a reason fewer and fewer young people are getting their licenses or buying cars.

I think it's more so a reflection of cars becoming more reliable than it is wealth inequality.

Car ownership rates in themselves continue to be at record high levels and continue to grow.



The rising average cost of new vehicles is a result of the average age of cars increasing as reliability increases. Between 2000 and 2017, the average age of vehicles on the road increased by over 30% from about 9 years to 12 years.



As reliability increases, so does the portion of the car market which is represented by new vehicles. They being the top end of the vehicle market, mean that they naturally progress to being proportionately more expensive.

Think about it - the average model year of a car on the road today in the US is a 2011 model year. Half the cars on the road are older than that.

The new car market has become a small fraction of the car market, and it's not because people can't afford cars. People own more of them then they ever have before.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by esquire

Almost seems like there is a good business opportunity to manufacture and sell low-cost compact cars to the large segment of the population unwilling or unable to spend $75,000 on a Silverado. At some point Chinese manufacturers well-versed in small, cheap cars will start selling their product here...

The reality of the modern car market is that those with only a budget for a new-build compact car are more likely to look at the used market to get a 3-5 year old larger vehicle.

Automakers stopped making small, cheap cars as nobody buys them. It's not like they aren't on the Canadian market - The Mitsubishi Mirage is still sold today for $14,400 brand new, and the Kia Rio starts at $19,900.

Mitsubishi sold just 911 Mirages in Canada in 2021. Kia sold 5,200 Rio's. Combined they represent 0.3% of the new vehicle market.

Comparatively, Ford sold 116,000 F-150s in 2021.

Even within the compact car market, the Civic, which is generally the most expensive model in the segment, sells the best, selling about 70,000 units a year before Honda ran into supply problems through the pandemic. Budget isn't generally a major concern for new car buyers.

[WarrenC12]

Interesting stats on vehicles per capita, I'm shocked it's growing like that TBH.

I'm curious if this has to do more with demographic shifts than anything else. Is "per capita" everybody or 16+ or something else?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The reality of the modern car market is that those with only a budget for a new-build compact car are more likely to look at the used market to get a 3-5 year old larger vehicle.

Automakers stopped making small, cheap cars as nobody buys them. It's not like they aren't on the Canadian market - The Mitsubishi Mirage is still sold today for $14,400 brand new, and the Kia Rio starts at $19,900.

Mitsubishi sold just 911 Mirages in Canada in 2021. Kia sold 5,200 Rio's. Combined they represent 0.3% of the new vehicle market.

Comparatively, Ford sold 116,000 F-150s in 2021.

Even within the compact car market, the Civic, which is generally the most expensive model in the segment, sells the best, selling about 70,000 units a year before Honda ran into supply problems through the pandemic. Budget isn't generally a major concern for new car buyers.

Interesting stats. I can't believe that only 911 Mirages sold in 2021. I'd bet my bottom dollar that many of those 116,000 F-150 buyers are taking on more debt than they should. It is amazing to me that people value large vehicles so much... in the 90s, smaller cars were a huge seller (Civic, Cavalier, etc.). The power of effective marketing.