Downtown Vancouver Updates

[AlexYVR]

This is what holds Vancouver back, New York, Toronto, Montreal, Osaka, Tokyo, Paris, etc... are all cities i have been to that all have huge populations in their downtown cores and the downtown cores also never sleep!

I'm in total agreement with Jlousa - the great thing about Vancouver is that it isn't one of these cities. If you want a 'city that never sleeps' in that way - go move to one of the above. Vancouver isn't in Europe, and it isn't east coast, and it isn't in Asia.

It sort of fits in with that 'global city' ranking - Vancouver didn't make the top 60. This is good news! We don't need to be another city that vies in the rankings for human capital, politics, etc. If you want to clone Toronto, Paris, London, Tokyo, you're doing a disservice to the unique (sometimes sleepy) feel Vancouver has.

It's like if people were looking at Apple and saying 'well shit, if they would just start making PCs and using Windows, think of the market share they'd have! It works for the other 85% of the industry! Think of how rich they'd be!'

It's kind of missing the point. . .

[officedweller]

But did you expect 250 peering eyes (actually 500 peering eyes) into your bedroom or living room on the 8th floor?

I could see JLousa's suggestion of tall planters or a tall wall providing visual separation. I agree that the rooftop restaurant is just the hotel going for more of a cash grab given that it already has two restaurants at ground level. The hotel could convert its penthouse suites' interior space and wrap around balcony into a restaurant and then convert the suites one level down into penthouse suites - that would provide some noise containment but still have some outdoor space.

[Metro-One]

well those are good solution ideas, which could be a good compromise. I have no problem with reasonable compromises, but not all out bans.

As for you AlexYVR there are many people who love this city who feel the way i do in that we need to beef up our entertainment and commercial districts, so what is the problem with having variety? If you want a sleepy feel then don't buy a condo near the activity areas. There are plenty of areas that should remain as dosile as they are right now, but does everywhere need to be dosile? Vancouver was not always this sleepy, and i guess with your mentality then we should allow the nimbys to win on everything, we don't need the fire works, gone, those night clubs are too loud, gone, who needs new office towers if we are so sleepy and don't like to work? gone, who needs to expand the airport, thats for only busy cities like Toronto, gone, a new train line - that will bring people near my house! forget that, gone, the olympics! i think not! gone, interesting architecture? nope etc... Why do you want to turn vancouver into the densest suburb in the world? Many cities throughout the world have the same relaxed feeling Vancouver does, but they also have more exciting districts than vancouver does, because variety is the spice of life. Why is food so good in vancouver, because of the variety! Why are the outdoors so amazing in Vancouver, because of the variety! there is nothing wrong with loving your city and also believing that as it grows it can improve in a few areas, such as night entertainment and business. Do you want vancouver to become just a vacation city for the super rich? I forget who said it but one forumer once stated the looks fade but dumb stays forever, which i worry could happen to the city i love.

I am 5th generation Vancouverite by the way and so i have heard a lot about the old days on how Vancouver use to have quite a vibrant atmosphere, which slowly faded during the 80's and 90's. Well i for one want to bring that aspect back to Vancouver.

PS If i am ever the owner of a large coorporation i am placing my office tower right in the heart of downtown vancouver, and it is going to be lit up like a christmas tree, and those lights will be powered by one of my companies wind turbines on a local mountain

Or maybe by that time my tower will have to be in bustling surrey, but i will still live in the Suburb of Vancouver.

Also i just want to say what is wrong with looking at aspects from the past and those of other metro areas that work, that create fun and inviting environments? Can't doingso bring positive changes to a city you love? Isn't vancouver looking at other cities on how to properly design or rail system? Aren't other cities looking at vancouver on how to create residential density? Why is it so wrong to look at others and then wish to bring some of those aspects home?

[SpongeG]

how can you say vancouver isn't vibrant and bustling?

have you been downtown on a weekend evening? robson is usually wall to wall people - the cafes that are open are packed - bread garden at 1 am off robson is always busy, blenz everywhere are packed, until starbucks closes at midnight its packed etc etc

things aren't that dead and boring

we don't need to be bombarded with buy me buy this wear that signage to be lively and vibrant

[Yume-sama]

I don't know.

As someone who is not originally from Vancouver, I think you guys could use a couple of nights in Downtown Pittsburgh, Calgary, Edmonton to value what Vancouver has And as someone who lives on Robson / Richards with a view towards West Georgia Street and the Northshore Mountains, I just love to be able to look out my window and see PEOPLE, and CARS, at any time of day. Makes you feel a whole lot less alone...

[Canadian Mind]

being to cities like montreal toronto, and especially New York makes me feel that vancouver could improve nightlife wise.

[Yume-sama]

All of those cities have anywhere from 3 - 13x the population, though.

[SpongeG]

but BC has always had this weird liquor thing - up until expo 86 i don;t think they could sell liquor on sundays - hence why everyone went to breakers in point roberts or down to bellingham

a lot of the gay bars and I assume other bars couldn't sell you a drink but you could bring your own liquor and they could serve it to you - a weird work around the bizarre licensing

i can remember going to places in the mid 90's where they couldn't sell me a beer unless i bought food - so i would buy a cookie and i could get a beer

its changed for the better now for the most part in some ways

but i know for myself i much preferred when the bars and clubs were spread out throughtout the downtown and yaletown instead of consolidated on granville as they are now - at least it got people to walk between places a little more - and there were some better alternatives - like all the old pool halls which are now condo towers

[flight_from_kamakura]

not sure how worthwhile it is continuing this conversation, but seriously, vancouver will probably never ever have a nightlife anything like the smallest of these towns, montreal (which is actually not very big, despite the population numbers since they amalgamated something like 24 suburbs into the city). for that to happen, the provincial government would have to plough a massive amount of money into festivals and found 2 more large universities and put them right downtown as well as several smaller colleges and institutes dedicated to design, dance, theatre, etc; the city would have to institute retroactive rent controls, change dozens of bylaws and retrain all of the vpd so that vancouver is far less strict on everything from noise bylaws to harassing people who carouse in the streets (incidentally, vpd are among the harshest cops i've seen outside of the u.s. and egypt); there would need to be a totally different population living in the core, there would need to be much denser entertainment district, and so on.

and most importantly, in terms of nightlife, there's a rhythm to vanada, it's a yuppie kind of place, with a hard dose of suburban folks, a smattering of hipsters, some nouveau trendies downtown, old canadians in the south and west, the boba set in the south and southeast, etc. montreal's a grungy, fairly wild east coast city, with loads of students, etc. toronto's a quirky, office worker sort of place, a mecca for the suburban and rural type with biggish dreams. and of course, new york is a world capital with a super rich history, so there's no real comparison. these are things that even the best planning won't really do much to address.

[SpongeG]

yah and thats why vancouver is what it is

no point trying to clone it

people would rather get out during the day and do the grind than do granville street clubs

[Metro-One]

Then why do i often hear many people in Van wish we had more night venues and market style street shopping? And how did Vancouver have a more vibrant night life and festival life 30 years ago with a smaller population? The demand is there. Also do not compare Vancouver to Calgary and Edmonton, which are less than half the population of Vancouver. Montreal is a more fair comparison because it is maybe 1.4 times the size of vancouver (many of the areas included in its population stats would be equivalent to vancouver including Abbotsford and Chilliwack etc...) Sapporo is actually a smaller metro area than Vancouver but much more vibrant.

Vancouver is a great city, but don't be so smug, we can improve in many ways, and the city has doubled in the past 40 years, but many policies don't seem to realize this.

I feel Richmond is starting to have more of an urban sense and i think in 20 years Richmond could become quite an interesting place, along with "downtown" Surrey.

I just fear, as do others i know, that downtown Vancouver residential is going to squeeze the business and life out of the core one club/festival/office/industry at a time, making it a giant bedroom community.

I just say in the news people complaining about a nightclub downtown (i forget which one) and one residence was quoted saying "The night club has been here for decades, but now this area is residential, maybe it is time for the club to close." I personally feel the club should not close and the people who moved there should have realized they are moving next to a night club. What about the woman asking to have the float planes removed? Does anyone remember the up side down church anymore? Am i the only one who sees a trend emerging? Downtown as the next north shore?

[flight_from_kamakura]

listen pal, i think almost everyone on these boards agrees, a vibrant urban centre is essential, the nimbys can be annoying, and people who live in the downtown shouldn't be complaining about the very things that make their real estate investments so valuable. and the cov people aren't fools, despite how little experience they may have on paper (ahem, head of planning, ahem). but you can't expect vanada to take the same approach that you might see in a san francisco, a town that's had an 80 year head-start on vancouver in the domain of dense/vibrant/livable or montreal, which has had a 300 year head-start.

on the other hand, i used to live on geary street in said city of san francisco and i know all about what it's like to be woken up in the night by lunatics screaming at each other, or by the rattle of shopping carts, or by police sirens, or drunken carousers, etc. and i can tell you, it just makes you crazy after a while. so yeah, even there, you've got problems.

the rule of thumb: the city of vancouver is generally conservative, but fair. the developers or business owners will push one way, the nimbys and other stakeholders will push back and the city will work to find a mean, if not a consensus. on the bylaw side, the city of vancouver often brutally and senselessly punishes and oppresses (see licenses: liquor; deep fry; dancing; etc), but on the built form side, they're pretty good, aside from a few blaring absurdities (sfds in the core; obsessive high street development; etc). so yeah, if you're starting a movement, that would be the place to start: wholesale bylaws reform.

[Metro-One]

listen pal, haha, sounds like you are taking this a little personal. What is this a bar fight? It doesn't not take a genius to know that we have lost something we had 30 years ago. No one loves this city more than me, i am one of the few who truly have no attachment to any other country, i am Canadian, members of my family were some of the original civic boosters in Vancouver pre CPR days. My family once owned major land plots in the west end when it was still forest, my family opened the first car dealership in greater vancouver. My whole life growing up i lived its history through my great grandparents and grandparents and parents, all Vancouver born and raised. Vancouver is the great city it is today because they all felt it could be better, people in the past built this city through vision because they loved the city.

I love this city too, it is the best city, so to criticize it does not mean otherwise, i criticize because i know it is a growing area, and a growing area has potential to diversify, and my god i am going to help it do so. People who just pat themselves on the back for a good job done do not move forward, they become smug. So lets not keep patting the city on the back, lets not let it become smug, because it can still improve.

Every year i more seriously consider getting involved in the Vancouver political realm. And if i do it will be my job to take many of those out of date by laws down. If you don't want loud nights then don't move near the entertainment areas, i hate people who want it both ways. This city also does need more business, homegrown business especially.

Don't pal me next time pal, you are in my city now, and i am going to continue pushing my ideals for creating a more enjoyable urban landscape, as i am sure all of us here who love this city will.

[SpongeG]

i can see why newly arrived immigrants might complain - the influx from hong kong is rightfully complaing - from one of the most vibrant cities on the planet to a sleepy town in the trees on a wilderness coast

i have noticed most of the late night people I see are usually asian and they seem like they like to go and hang out all hours of the night compared to north americans

thats why they started the richmond night market

either way I've never found Vancouver lacking for what I want to do

[vansky]

you can't have a forest and a vibrant night life. If you are stuck in the big cities long enough you'll know you'd want a forest. Treat this city as a global village, this is its true identity. why dont we all drink beer under the trees, it's a feel too.

[Hong Kongese]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I don't know.

As someone who is not originally from Vancouver, I think you guys could use a couple of nights in Downtown Pittsburgh, Calgary, Edmonton to value what Vancouver has

You've better watch out! Yume, those cowboys don't like to hear that even though it is a fact.

Originally Posted by Metro-one

Don't pal me next time pal.

I'm with you pal.

[fever]

At this point in time, the bulk of the Vancouver's urban built form is less than 20 years old. The city's urban districts only recently emerged from a long period of decline and they weren't terribly substantial to begin with, especially compared to those in the other cities mentioned here. The newer districts are only beginning to acquire a distinct character. The older districts often have a more suburban character, South Granville and the West End being the best examples, while Gastown and Chinatown, the two that have an urban character, have hopefully reached bottom. The CBD having no character, life or interesting spaces, fills and will continue to fill a functional role that is neither urban or suburban in character. The transition between the CBD and the surrounding districts, especially on Robson, has become the centre of civic life and should be the focus for facilities and events that are noisy and disruptive. Maybe Hastings or Main or Abbott or Carrall could also play a similar role in the future.

There is nothing particularly attractive about noise in the middle of residential districts, no matter how dense. Between any primarily residential district and its adjacent primarily commercial districts, there is a transition where moderately noisy activities belong, bars and whatnot, markets maybe. I was hoping the empty space between BC Place and Yaletown might be able to accommodate more noise, and maybe that's still possible. The retail strips in streetcar suburban neighbourhoods would do this well enough without overly restrictive bylaws, on dancing for example. This city has no shortage of edges, really.

There will be new forms emerging as well, and SEFC is maybe a glimpse of that. The cost of living there pretty much guarantees a sterile character to begin with. Its surroundings might develop a more interesting character though, one that we don't see in Vancouver currently, both in the transition to industrial and transition back to the more affordable Mount Pleasant and also in the transition to the post-secondary institutions planned to the east. This would be the first large group of students in an urban setting, hopefully, or it could be research-oriented and utterly dead.

I'll stop rambling now...

[jlousa]

As someone old enough to remember the so called "better years" I can assure you that they were not. There were more clubs spread out all over the core but they were constantly changing names and closing down as they couldn't make a go of it. Downtown was literally a ghost town after 5pm (outside the West End). Granville St has been crappy since well before the pedestrian mall was put it, in fact part of the reason it was put in was to try and turn it around. The reason alot of people (some of my friends included) have such fond memories of the era is because they were young, going out and partying back then, and now they've grown up and aren't into that scene anymore. I can assure you though that D/T is much much more vibrant today then it has ever been. Between Davie St, Granville St, Yaletown and Gastown you can find whatever you're into.

[Metro-One]

I think you would have to admit that there is no doubt that the East Hastings area was a lot more friendly and lively in decades past, during those years that was the vibrant area, not Granville or Robsons. Gastown is much better today, but it always feels to me that it is too close to the edge, as if it is constantly trying to pull itself out of the cesspool called East hastings. That is a big shame on the city and province allowing such rot to occur. Why don't we just hand over one of the nicest districts with the richest history to organized crime so they can make mountains of money by slowly killing the ill and the weak, many of whom should be hospitalized and properly taken care of. East hastings was where my Grandpa ran a boxing gym during his olympic days, back then it was vibrant, i have seen the pictures and the old videos. Those do not lie.

[Metro-One]

On a different note, does anyone know how West Pender Place, Jameson House, Capitol Residences and Hotel Georgia are doing? these are all projects i hope do not encounter serious problems with the current markets.