The US Census Bureau thread

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Is your wife bothered that many people don't get it right, or does she like that she "passes" for "white" in the US? If I were to look at her and her body language and listen to her Spanish, would she be bothered if I told her that I got right away that she's Mexican? She's a Chilanga, right?

She doesn't care. It's all good. Her father's side immigrated to Mexico from Genoa, Italy, and her mother's side is from the Canary Islands (Spain) so not surprising that people think she looks Mediterranean.

She can "pass" for white in NYC, with all the Jews, Italians, Greeks, etc. but maybe not so much in Kansas. If we lived in SoCal I could see people guessing she's Armenian.

Also, a lot of Americans think that everyone in Mexico looks indigenous or at least Mestizo. Granted, most Mexicans are Mestizo, but there are also plenty of Europeans, some Middle Easterners, and even some African-Mexicans.

And, yeah, if you know Mexico well, you'd know she's from Mexico City. She has a (light) Chilanga accent and mannerisms.

[sopas ej]

Oh yes, in my now 27 years of being a full-time worker at various places, I've worked with enough Mexicans/Mexican-Americans to know that they have all kinds of different looks. Pale ones, dark ones, really tall ones, ones with green eyes and blue eyes... A majority of them are indeed mestizo, and of course some of them are more pure indigenous.

[memph]

Pretty impressive growth for Dearborn and Hamtramck.

[the urban politician]

The utter collapse of East St Louis, Gary, IN, and Flint, MI is just amazing.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The utter collapse of East St Louis, Gary, IN, and Flint, MI is just amazing.

At least the suburbs are doing well. Same with Chicago from what I hear.

In which densification of the burbs is ideal.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by ITB495

While it's possible Detroit will begin to tick up this decade, the opposite is more probable. Population growth usually doesn't turn on a dime. For decades Detroit has had population losses, as we commonly know. It lost a stunning 25% between 2000 and 2010. Between 2010 and 2020, the percentage loss was significantly pared to only 10.5%. Some would say that's a success. Considering the bankruptcy, it could have been much worse. The remarkable endeavors of Dan Gilbert and other like him helped stem the loss, but their efforts only reached so far.

Sadly, a shrinking population usually engenders more shrinkage, as schools are consolidated, fire stations closed, and less people are needed to staff government. Detroit's always been more working class city than not. Its working class jobs are now largely gone ... long gone! And, in all likelihood, they're never coming back. The people who had those jobs have either left the city for better opportunities elsewhere or are aging in place and eventually passing.

People need a reason to live in Detroit. Cheap housing might be a draw for some, but, so far, it hasn't nudged the needle all that much. Again, it comes down to jobs. If the jobs aren't there, if people see few opportunities to better their lives for themselves and their children, they won't be coming back.

At some point Detroit will bottom out. When exactly that will happen remains to be seen.

I don't know why some of you write these comments, clearly knowing nothing about the current state and trajectory on the city proper. The by far main stressor for population loss (tax foreclosures) is now completely gone. Households with property tax burdens are literally having them paid for by philanthropy for the next ten years at least. Nobody is getting kicked out anymore.

People have plenty reason to live in the city besides cheap housing, this is total nonsense. If anything central Detroit is seeing the most expensive real estate prices in all of Michigan, that ain't cheap.

There's tons of new white collar jobs and company relocations from the suburbs into downtown. Just Rocket alone is tens of thousands of new jobs that happened this decade and they hire about a thousand new people every year or so. Those are very well paid jobs, mortgage bankers at Rocket make multiples of six figure incomes. Everybody already knows about the 5,000+ engineer and tech related jobs coming to Corktown at the train station. That's also coming with an affordable housing boom in that area.

But that's not all either, there's still blue collar jobs coming to the city too. Probably more of those opening now than in many decades. Like the Fiat Chrysler plant that just finished up. That's 5,000 blue collar jobs from that project alone, and they start at 17 dollars and hour with benefits.

None of this happened overnight, obviously. This is a transition that took literally ten years and huge transformational investments from big players.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by benp

Here is your 2015 list and 2020 updates with 2020 population gains in GREEN and cities with 2020 population losses in RED:


City................................Peak..........2020......Percentage Drop

Highland Park, MI.............52,959..........8,977.......83.0%
East St. Louis, IL.............82,366...........18,469......77.6%
Johnstown, PA................67, 327..........18,411......72.7%
McKeesport, PA...............55,355...........17,727......68.0%
Detroit, MI.....................1,849,568.......639,111.....65.4%
St. Louis, MO..................856,796.........301,578.....64.8%
Youngstown, OH..............170,002.........60,068.......64.7%
Gary, IN.........................178,320.........69,093.......61.3%
Cleveland, OH.................914,808.........372,624......59.3%
Flint, MI.........................196,940.........81,252.......58.7%
Wheeling, WV..................61,659...........27,052......56.1%
Pittsburgh, PA.................676,806.........302,971.....55.2%
Saginaw, MI....................98,265..........44,202.......55.0%
East Chicago, IN..............57,669...........26,370......54.3%
Niagara Falls, NY..............102,394.........48,671.......52.5%
Buffalo, NY.....................580,132.........278,349......52.0%
Chester, PA......................66,039............32,605........50.6%
Hamtramck, MI................56,268...........28,433.......49.5%
Wilkes-Barre, PA..............86,626..........44,328.......48.8%

Thanks for updating the numbers. Just to be complete, the 50% club has a new member: Chester, PA which I've inserted.

Altoona looks to be the next to hit 50% down. 47% drop now and still in the grips of the west Pennsylvania downturn.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, there's tons of good stuff happening in/around downtown Detroit, but this isn't really relevant to a discussion of Detroit population trends. The city isn't gonna grow because of some young, highly paid professionals living in core housing.

Detroit is a black city. The population trends are largely fueled by black migration trends. Detroit is surrounded by cheap, working class white ethnic suburbs with aging populations. As these grannies die out, the home is often sold to a young black household from Detroit. This is why southern Macomb county is shifting majority black, when the black population was basically 0, 20 years ago. There are tons of safe, decent suburbs, very close to Detroit, that are generally no longer desirable for white suburbanites, and that are rapidly transitioning to black (and in S/SW directionals, Arab or Mexican).

A good example is Eastpointe. This town was all white a few years ago. I remember playing them in high school sports, and all the kids had Polish or Italian last names. Now Eastpointe is majority black.

Out of curiosity, I remember to read somewhere, way back in the 2000's, that Grosse Pointe was very wealthy. Still is?

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

From California News Times:

Multiracial boom reflects US racial, ethnic complexity


Link: https://californianewstimes.com/mult...ntinel/485822/

Originally Posted by Crawford

Some of this "multiracial boom" is just cultural/social evolution rather than demographic change. I'm in a "nonwhite" household even though I'm a dirty blond of full German descent, bc my wife is Mexican and our son is Hispanic per Census.

None of us look particularly "nonwhite". Most people guess my wife is from Italy, Spain or Southern France. If she's been in the sun we might get Greece or Lebanon. My son just looks like a typical white 4 yo. He's brown-eyed/haired due to his mom, but barely even tans.

The 2020 multiracial boom is pretty much a Hispanic phenomenon. I guess they've changed the Census forms, and Hispanic were induced from check to "Multiracial" instead of "White".

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Detroit is a black city. The population trends are largely fueled by black migration trends. Detroit is surrounded by cheap, working class white ethnic suburbs with aging populations. As these grannies die out, the home is often sold to a young black household from Detroit. This is why southern Macomb county is shifting majority black, when the black population was basically 0, 20 years ago. There are tons of safe, decent suburbs, very close to Detroit, that are generally no longer desirable for white suburbanites, and that are rapidly transitioning to black (and in S/SW directionals, Arab or Mexican).

They shifted black because black Detroit was literally kicked out of their homes and there was no new rental housing in the city available in wake of the great recession that they could go to. You have some pretty bizarre armchair theories (as usual). But clearly the granny industrial complex is something the census should be considering with it's supposed great influence on population trends.

I doubt the black population in the city will grow but I don't see it continuing to fall at a rate that outpaces all other demographics in the city. Which are all growing (White, Asian, Latino, etc.). Contrary to the suburban belief, black Detroiters are not desperate to leave the city. They're firmly planted in their communities, ya know if you actually speak to them. They're not leaving unless they're literally stripped of home ownership like they were in the early decade. Also the neighborhoods that held out the storm are doing better than ever. The city is investing millions in updating infrastructure and building housing in those areas, they have no reason to leave.

What's happening in the central core is absolutely relevant. It's important for the city to keep as much white collar job growth in the city as possible. Downtown being the dominate job center is great for growing the city population and makes excessive sprawl a lot more difficult.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

The 2020 multiracial boom is pretty much a Hispanic phenomenon. I guess they've changed the Census forms, and Hispanic were induced from check to "Multiracial" instead of "White".

Not necessarly.

My partner, who is white... was a total towhead as a kid, blond (now graying hair like me hehe), blue eyes, sunburns easily... both his parents were blond/blue-eyed... after doing his 23andme a few years ago, found out he has some Sub-Saharan African/Angolan and Congolese ancestry. He's now connected with other African-Americans that he shares a common but yet unknown ancestors with. It's all so fascinating, we think it's really cool.

So on this census, he put down that he's multi-racial. After all, in the US, "traditionally," even if you had a few drops of black in you, you were considered black/not considered white. It was a matter of trying to pass as white during the Jim Crow era.

I'm sure that there are probably other white people who've done the same... or don't accept their DNA ancestry and probably want to hide that they're part black or anything else.

Myself, through 23andme, I found out that I'm part south Indian/Sri Lankan (I identify as Filipino-American), which surprised me and still fascinates me. I wasn't surprised to find out I have some Chinese ancestry... now I like to joke that I'm descended from Hakka pirates. But I guess that still makes me Asian, which is what I checked off on the census (and Filipino).

[The North One]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Out of curiosity, I remember to read somewhere, way back in the 2000's, that Grosse Pointe was very wealthy. Still is?

Yes it's still very wealthy.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by The North One

They shifted black because black Detroit was literally kicked out of their homes and there was no new rental housing in the city available in wake of the great recession that they could go to. You have some pretty bizarre armchair theories (as usual). But clearly the granny industrial complex is something the census should be considering with it's supposed great influence on population trends.

I doubt the black population in the city will grow but I don't see it continuing to fall at a rate that outpaces all other demographics in the city. Which are all growing (White, Asian, Latino, etc.). Contrary to the suburban belief, black Detroiters are not desperate to leave the city. They're firmly planted in their communities, ya know if you actually speak to them. They're not leaving unless they're literally stripped of home ownership like they were in the early decade. Also the neighborhoods that held out the storm are doing better than ever. The city is investing millions in updating infrastructure and building housing in those areas, they have no reason to leave.

What's happening in the central core is absolutely relevant. It's important for the city to keep as much white collar job growth in the city as possible. Downtown being the dominate job center it's great for growing the city population and makes excessive sprawl a lot more difficult.

The city is pulling up hard on the yoke. I think even at the current loss this decade (if it's even truly a loss given the very likely undercount), being on the ground tells a very different story than what the numbers show, and is cause for celebration. Few places in America have had a tougher time, but its future looks brighter all the time, particularly with the diversification of its economy. The number one issue for working/middle class families will always be schools, and those people of modest means who still have the ability to move will most times look for opportunities for their children attend better schools...usually in the burbs. I think violence is loosely correlated to that.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Not necessarly.

My partner, who is white... was a total towhead as a kid, blond (now graying hair like me hehe), blue eyes, sunburns easily... both his parents were blond/blue-eyed... after doing his 23andme a few years ago, found out he has some Sub-Saharan African/Angolan and Congolese ancestry. He's now connected with other African-Americans that he shares a common but yet unknown ancestors with. It's all so fascinating, we think it's really cool.

So on this census, he put down that he's multi-racial. After all, in the US, "traditionally," even if you had a few drops of black in you, you were considered black/not considered white. It was a matter of trying to pass as white during the Jim Crow era.

I'm sure that there are probably other white people who've done the same... or don't accept their DNA ancestry and probably want to hide that they're part black or anything else.

Myself, through 23andme, I found out that I'm part south Indian/Sri Lankan (I identify as Filipino-American), which surprised me and still fascinates me. I wasn't surprised to find out I have some Chinese ancestry... now I like to joke that I'm descended from Hakka pirates. But I guess that still makes me Asian, which is what I checked off on the census (and Filipino).

I have a similar story myself. When I was a kid, my hair was practically white and I had very blue eyes. Now, my hair is a dark brown and my eyes are blue-green. When I did 23andme it came back with a small amount of Senegambian ancestry. Interestingly, my brother's came back with Congolese ancestry, no Senegambian.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by The North One

I don't know why some of you write these comments, clearly knowing nothing about the current state and trajectory on the city proper. The by far main stressor for population loss (tax foreclosures) is now completely gone. Households with property tax burdens are literally having them paid for by philanthropy for the next ten years at least. Nobody is getting kicked out anymore.

People have plenty reason to live in the city besides cheap housing, this is total nonsense. If anything central Detroit is seeing the most expensive real estate prices in all of Michigan, that ain't cheap.

There's tons of new white collar jobs and company relocations from the suburbs into downtown. Just Rocket alone is tens of thousands of new jobs that happened this decade and they hire about a thousand new people every year or so. Those are very well paid jobs, mortgage bankers at Rocket make multiples of six figure incomes. Everybody already knows about the 5,000+ engineer and tech related jobs coming to Corktown at the train station. That's also coming with an affordable housing boom in that area.

But that's not all either, there's still blue collar jobs coming to the city too. Probably more of those opening now than in many decades. Like the Fiat Chrysler plant that just finished up. That's 5,000 blue collar jobs from that project alone, and they start at 17 dollars and hour with benefits.

None of this happened overnight, obviously. This is a transition that took literally ten years and huge transformational investments from big players.

I've never been to the US, but just by visiting "Detroit Construction" thread or just by checking the Street View, you can tell easily that the city's core is developing at a very fast pace.

I really don't get all this negativism about Detroit. The city is arguably under its first positive trend since the late 1960's.

It's obvious Detroit will never count 1.8 million people in the city limits again, but things are promising. MSA once again growing, CSA once again growing, lots of developments in the city, no reason whatsoever to be negative about it.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

I've never been to the US, but just by visiting "Detroit Construction" thread or just by checking the Street View, you can tell easily that the city's core is developing at a very fast pace.

I really don't get all this negativism about Detroit. The city is arguably under its first positive trend since the late 1960's.

It's obvious Detroit will never count 1.8 million people in the city limits again, but things are promising. MSA once again growing, CSA once again growing, lots of developments in the city, no reason whatsoever to be negative about it.

Perceptions/headlines are a helluva drug. It's just hard for people to change their mindsets. My Italian grandmother grew up in the city until the race riots and then turned her back on it and moved to Livonia until she died. She died a racist and it was super sad to see. I know it was traumatic for her and others, but still hard to see her mindset so rigid. Those ideas permeate the region and the nation, especially in those old granny neighborhoods where she lived.

Interestingly, the people moving out of Portland to the suburbs have similar complaints about violence, needles, garbage and graffiti as happened in Detroit and other places in the 60s, fueled by the covid WFH situation. Not at all to the same extent, but fear all the same.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Not necessarly.

My partner, who is white... was a total towhead as a kid, blond (now graying hair like me hehe), blue eyes, sunburns easily... both his parents were blond/blue-eyed... after doing his 23andme a few years ago, found out he has some Sub-Saharan African/Angolan and Congolese ancestry. He's now connected with other African-Americans that he shares a common but yet unknown ancestors with. It's all so fascinating, we think it's really cool.

So on this census, he put down that he's multi-racial. After all, in the US, "traditionally," even if you had a few drops of black in you, you were considered black/not considered white. It was a matter of trying to pass as white during the Jim Crow era.

I'm sure that there are probably other white people who've done the same... or don't accept their DNA ancestry and probably want to hide that they're part black or anything else.

Myself, through 23andme, I found out that I'm part south Indian/Sri Lankan (I identify as Filipino-American), which surprised me and still fascinates me. I wasn't surprised to find out I have some Chinese ancestry... now I like to joke that I'm descended from Hakka pirates. But I guess that still makes me Asian, which is what I checked off on the census (and Filipino).

Sopas, Americans like to explore their ancestry and I guess people are more opened to explore their non-European ancestry and even induced some Whites to check multiracial. Many NZ Whites do that, claiming being multiracial for having only a tiny % of Maori background.

However, in terms of stats, there were a massive change on the way Hispanics identify in this Census. In the past, for some reason, 50%-60% checked "White", which is clearly does represent the reality of US Hispanics. In 2020, however, this number suddenly dropped to 20% or so. That's clearly due some changes they made on the forms that made Hispanics to change on how they checked the racial box.

P.S. The life insurance negotiated where I work has one of those genetic tests for free. Aside not been that much interested on this subject, mine would be quite bland. It would probably be 100% Iberian, so it's not that exciting.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by subterranean

The city is pulling up hard on the yoke. I think even at the current loss this decade (if it's even truly a loss given the very likely undercount), being on the ground tells a very different story than what the numbers show, and is cause for celebration. Few places in America have had a tougher time, but its future looks brighter all the time, particularly with the diversification of its economy. The number one issue for working/middle class families will always be schools, and those people of modest means who still have the ability to move will most times look for opportunities for their children attend better schools...usually in the burbs. I think violence is loosely correlated to that.

Luckily it seems there's positive trends for DPS too. The highest starting wages for new teachers in Michigan will help bring in good talent. The district also just got a billion dollars in federal aid, so that'll help a lot.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

I've never been to the US, but just by visiting "Detroit Construction" thread or just by checking the Street View, you can tell easily that the city's core is developing at a very fast pace.

I really don't get all this negativism about Detroit. The city is arguably under its first positive trend since the late 1960's.

It's obvious Detroit will never count 1.8 million people in the city limits again, but things are promising. MSA once again growing, CSA once again growing, lots of developments in the city, no reason whatsoever to be negative about it.

This site is obsessed with Detroit. It's always the number one topic and it's always randomly brought up out of nowhere. It used to be even worse. Americans are typically a miserable bunch of people, they like to kick other places down to ignore their own problems, justify the cost of their own rent. But also there's a lot of long time trolls here who have always had it out for the city on a personal level, which is sad. Most eastern US city propers will never reach their peak populations in a lifetime, so there's plenty company there.

[craigs]

I finished my count.

Some 1,761,372 residents of Los Angeles County live in Census tracts with population densities of 20,000+ persons per square mile.

I've got a 57 page Google doc with the number, density, tract population and land area of each tract. Tedious!