The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

When climate scientists talk about deforestation, they’re talking about burning forests - whether via wildfires or slash and burn clearance- and releasing carbon into the atmosphere through fires, not commercial logging of managed forests.

I know that Canada's forestry industry re-plants trees, but remaining Old Growth forest shouldn't be touched.

Also, wildfire season is starting to release more carbon than our forests sequester. There should be opportunity there to clear some of the dead wood I'd think. Though heat domes and pine beetles are more difficult to manage.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

A tree is not a tree is not a tree. Living in the maritimes we have often seen over the years the Iriving Forestery public relations ads on TV where the company pats itselfs on the back for planting tree seedlings after clear cutting. What they don't say is that they cut down oak and other broadleaf species and replace them with a fast growing spruce mono culture and annually spray the seedling forests with glyphosate to kill off anything but the spruce. They essentially farm the forest which on the surface doesn't seem like such a bad thing. What they don't say that these new forests are not suitable habitat for animals that once lived there. They don't say that mono cultures promote pests and desease or that they are, with every harvest, depleating the soil of nutrients or that when they clear cut older growth that they harvest the best trees and leave the sickly trees to breed and repopulate. In short, what I wanted to say is that when you hear the forest industry's claims about replanting seedlings, take their message with a grain of salt.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

A tree is not a tree is not a tree. Living in the maritimes we have often seen over the years the Iriving Forestery public relations ads on TV where the company pats itselfs on the back for planting tree seedlings after clear cutting. What they don't say is that they cut down oak and other broadleaf species and replace them with a fast growing spruce mono culture and annually spray the seedling forests with glyphosate to kill off anything but the spruce. They essentially farm the forest which on the surface doesn't seem like such a bad thing. What they don't say that these new forests are not suitable habitat for animals that once lived there. They don't say that mono cultures promote pests and desease or that they are, with every harvest, depleating the soil of nutrients or that when they clear cut older growth that they harvest the best trees and leave the sickly trees to breed and repopulate. In short, what I wanted to say is that when you hear the forest industry's claims about replanting seedlings, take their message with a grain of salt.

Thanks for articulating this point. About the glyphosate, that appears to be a major cause of wildfires now too. In AB and BC they eliminate aspen forests which are natural fire breaks and only farm the preferred, much more flammable pine trees. I shudder to imagine the long term implications of spraying the landscape with glyphosate. Think of that ending up in the water, how it effects amphibians and fish.

Edit: This also makes me think of that asshat Patrick Moore (formerly of Greenpeace now a corporate shill) who proclaims there are more trees today than when he joined Greenpeace. He fails to mention anything about industry monocultures such as with our forestry sector or worse yet palm oil plantations. The epic loss of biodiversity is a tragedy.

[O-tacular]

Canada's forestry industry likes to pat itself on the back the same way the O&G industry does. They both love to call themselves ethical and contrast their practices with third world countries with no regulations. But in the end the devastation to the landscape and the atmosphere is the same over the long term. It astounds me how industries are still allowed to police themselves to such a degree. I guess lobbyists come in handy.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Canada's forestry industry likes to pat itself on the back the same way the O&G industry does. They both love to call themselves ethical and contrast their practices with third world countries with no regulations. But in the end the devastation to the landscape and the atmosphere is the same over the long term. It astounds me how industries are still allowed to police themselves to such a degree. I guess lobbyists come in handy.

You have such a dim world view.

Canada's forest industry is world class. It's a shame that anything doesn't line up with your ethos must be corrupt.

[O-tacular]

Mayor Gondek to make motion to declare climate emergency in Calgary

CALGARY - Making good on her campaign promise, Calgary Mayor Jyoti Gondek is taking an initial step toward declaring a climate emergency in the city.
The notice of motion, which will be Gondek's first as mayor, is expected to be submitted when the executive committee meets Tuesday.

Vancouver and Halifax are among several other Canadian cities to have taken similar steps.

Speaking with CTV's Question Period, Gondek said Calgary needs to take the action that's expected to attract international investment and talent to the city.

She says Calgary has the potential to be a leader in energy transition beyond the goals the city previously laid out, especially as several resource producers with office towers in Calgary have announced their own plans to be net-zero by 2050.

Premier Jason Kenney called Gondek's motion to declare a climate emergency a peculiar priority, stating his belief that the mayor of Calgary should be focused on bringing jobs to the city.

If the motion passes, it will be debated next week during a regular council meeting.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mayor-gon...gary-1.5658007

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

You have such a dim world view.

Canada's forest industry is world class. It's a shame that anything doesn't line up with your ethos must be corrupt.

My world view is tempered by reality. It is a fact that our forestry industry logs old growth forests destroying biodiversity. It's also a fact that our forestry sector sprays glyphosate that kills deciduous trees which could help reduce the spread of wildfires but puts the profitability of monoculture forestry above a healthy environment. It's also a fact that a huge portion of the wood product that we produce ends up as either toilet paper or bark mulch. In AB one of the biggest threats to grizzlies and woodland caribou populations is logging roads.

I don't trust resource extraction industries as they only care about profit and continually cut corners when it comes to protecting the environment.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Canada's forestry industry likes to pat itself on the back the same way the O&G industry does. They both love to call themselves ethical and contrast their practices with third world countries with no regulations. But in the end the devastation to the landscape and the atmosphere is the same over the long term.

No it is not. Here are the Canadian stats from the same dataset:

- CO2 emissions from deforestation (2018): 9.4 Megatonnes
- CO2 emissions from oil and gas production (2019): 191 Megatonnes.

That doesn't include emissions from the downstream use of oil and gas products, most notably fuel for internal combustion engines.

PS: I am neither employed by the forestry industry nor do I own forestry investments.

[MolsonExport]

Old Growth Maps

Only 1% (1500 sq. miles) of British Columbia's old growth forests remain, researchers find
• Video Link

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Old Growth Maps

Only 1% (1500 sq. miles) of British Columbia's old growth forests remain, researchers find
• Video Link

Tragic seeing those beautiful old Douglas Firs reduced to stumps. Also interesting to hear about wood pellets. That definitely seems like a grey area that hides a lot of emissions since it takes decades for the saplings that replace the old growth to sequester much carbon at all.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

No it is not. Here are the Canadian stats from the same dataset:

- CO2 emissions from deforestation (2018): 9.4 Megatonnes
- CO2 emissions from oil and gas production (2019): 191 Megatonnes.

That doesn't include emissions from the downstream use of oil and gas products, most notably fuel for internal combustion engines.

PS: I am neither employed by the forestry industry nor do I own forestry investments.

See above video. I would contend that wood pellets definitely increase the amount of carbon emitted, however, due to an oversight in the Kyoto Accord those figures aren't counted.

I am not trying to slag one industry to prop up another (O&G), just pointing out that while AB's prime industry gets the majority of negative media attention, forestry is another sector that should receive more scrutiny.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

See above video. I would contend that wood pellets definitely increase the amount of carbon emitted though due to an oversight in the Kyoto Accord those figures aren't counted.

I am not trying to slag one industry to prop up another (O&G), just pointing out that while AB's industry gets the majority of negative media attention, forestry is another sector that should receive more scrutiny.

I don't see any scenario where wood pellets increases the forestry sector's emissions 20 fold (which would make it in line with just O&G production, not O&G use).

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I don't see any scenario where wood pellets increases the forestry sector's emissions 20 fold (which would make it in line with just O&G production, not O&G use).

O&G is without a doubt our highest emitter of GHG's. But looking beyond that one metric, logging old growth forests is still a horrible practice.

Also one of the biggest threats to global biodiversity is the forestry sector. BC cutting down all of its old growth forest is nothing to be proud of.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

flying above BC reveals just how little of the southern part of the province has been saved from loggers. The amount of clear cutting is insane. I can't speak for the northern part.


cbc

Going into Terrace and Kitimat this week was the first time I truly noticed the logging, even though its been in the area for years. The highway between Kitimat and Terrace now has large scale forestry along the highway.

[Airboy]

Shell Scotford Refinery to build out a 55mw solar farm beside the current refinery petrol chemical plant. I believe there is a 5mw plant being built now.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...erta-1.6242314

[O-tacular]

Amazon just announced a 4.3 Billion dollar investment in Calgary and will be building a massive server facility. One of the reasons they cited was access to renewable energy. They will be sourcing power from the largest solar farm in the country outside Vulcan AB.

[lio45]

The forest diversity in most of the interior of BC seemed pretty low to me (unlike the rainforest on the drive to Tofino for example), is that because most of what's visible from roads has been logged already and reforested with the same softwoods?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by lio45

The forest diversity in most of the interior of BC seemed pretty low to me (unlike the rainforest on the drive to Tofino for example), is that because most of what's visible from roads has been logged already and reforested with the same softwoods?

Correct, a lot of it is third growth, its been logged twice already.

[Hackslack]

Anyone know if there is information out there identifying what is more damaging to the environment, renewable natural resource logging, or concrete, for like projects?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Anyone know if there is information out there identifying what is more damaging to the environment, renewable natural resource logging, or concrete, for like projects?

This would very much depend on what you're concerned with. Concrete is bad for emissions. Cutting down trees and using lumber is good for emissions. However, there's other issues with habitat loss, biodiversity, etc if the forestry is but done in a sustainable manner.

The Feds are pushing cross-laminated timber as an environmentally friendly product that Canada can sell the world.