The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[miketoronto]

For Vancouver to surpass Toronto in ridership, Vancouver would have to have to over 500 million riders right now.
Translink's service area population is about the same as the population for the City of Toronto (TTC service area).

But Translink's ridership is much lower. Vancouver has been making strides, but it is still a ways off of having the kind of ridership you see in suburban areas of Toronto or parts of suburban Montreal Island.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

That plan for Ottawa looks awesome.

Looks awesome but... Red is rail, blue is bus rapid transit. The solid red lines are due for completion in 2032. The dotted red lines are planned to be built as BRT first (2032) and later converted to rail.

Important parts of the central Ottawa will lack proper rapid transit for decades to come, places like Bank Street (just one example of a spot with important transit needs on Bank; Lansdowne Park 3 km south of downtown with a 10,000 seat arena and a 25,000 seat stadium (45,000+ with extra seating), 360,000 square feet of retail an office building and 500 or so condo units - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvDZ4MeGqLg), Rideau Street (huge potential for redevelopment directly east of downtown) and Vanier, a traditionally lower income neighborhood experiencing a revival with significant condo construction, also has a few employment nodes.

[Beedok]

So that's what they're doing at Lansdowne. I'd tried figuring it out, but with the thread being like 200 pages long I got kind of scared.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

spacing for the skytrain is honestly 90s? even the Yonge Subway doesn't run at that frequency. Are you sure that isn't just the absolute maximum the system can handle?

Currently the peak frequency is 108 seconds. The maximum frequency the system ever ran for a prolonged period of time was 80 seconds during the 2010 Winter Olympics.

The absolute maximum for the current system I believe is 77 seconds. With software upgrade, the frequency can go down to 75 seconds, which is the designed maximum frequency.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by nname

Currently the peak frequency is 108 seconds. The maximum frequency the system ever ran for a prolonged period of time was 80 seconds during the 2010 Winter Olympics.

The absolute maximum for the current system I believe is 77 seconds. With software upgrade, the frequency can go down to 75 seconds, which is the designed maximum frequency.

Weird, I was just about to post that information (from one your older posts). I thought the section between Broadway and Waterfront ran at higher frequencies than 108s during rush hour... guess not.

If the designed max. frequency is 75s, then that gives the system 48 trains per hour. I wonder what numbers Translink is using to calculate its ultimate capacity of 25 700 pphpd? A 5 car train would hold (at crush load I presume) 725 people. Multiply that by 48 and you get 34 800 pphpd. Even if you use more conservative numbers, say 45 trains per hour (80s headway), and a more comfortable 650 passengers, you still get 29 225 pph.

[nname]

Originally Posted by logan5

Weird, I was just about to post that information (from one your older posts). I thought the section between Broadway and Waterfront ran at higher frequencies than 108s during rush hour... guess not.

I forgot about that. Between Waterfront and Broadway there's 2 additional trains, so average headway is currently 93 seconds.

[travis3000]

One thing I wanted to mention that I found interesting.... I used the subway in Montreal many times over the weekend when I was there and is it just me, or does the Metro subway travel MUCH faster than the Toronto subway? I felt a huge difference in take off speed, as the subway accelerated way faster in Montreal going from zero to extremely fast in a mere few seconds. I never see this in Toronto. The entire ride just seemed way faster. Can somebody confirm this, or is it all in my head?

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Nuns' Island, St. Helen's Island, Dorval Island, Île Bizard, etc (basically the ones that are part of the city of Montreal but aren't part of the Island).

No one lives on St Helen and Dorval has like 5 permanent residents.

[Everyday]

Originally Posted by travis3000

One thing I wanted to mention that I found interesting.... I used the subway in Montreal many times over the weekend when I was there and is it just me, or does the Metro subway travel MUCH faster than the Toronto subway? I felt a huge difference in take off speed, as the subway accelerated way faster in Montreal going from zero to extremely fast in a mere few seconds. I never see this in Toronto. The entire ride just seemed way faster. Can somebody confirm this, or is it all in my head?

I dont have the facts but I feel the same way. For what the Montreal metro lacks in comfort it makes up for in speed. I was in Toronto this summer and found the acceleration to be really slow. I would guess it has something to do with steel vs rubber wheels.

[Metro-One]

I can't find Toronto's operating speeds but I can find Montreal's and Vancouver's:

Montreal: Average speed is 40km with a top speed of 72km.

Vancouver: Average speed is 45km (I do believe this is the fastest in the nation) with a top speed of 90km (E/M lines) and 80km (C line). I think speeds on the C line would be similar to the Toronto subway given the fact that the C line essentially is a subway (full heavy rail traditional subway cars as the rolling stock).

[Chadillaccc]

That's interesting, I thought I remember reading someone on here posting that Ctrain somehow had the fastest in the country, but upon researching for myself, our average speed, times, and people movement capacity:


Average speed: 35 km/h
Maximum Speed: 80 km/h
Minimum headway: 120 seconds
Actual at-peak passenger movement: 7 255/h
Current practical at-peak passenger movement(3-car trains): 14 580
Future practical at-peak passenger movement(4-car trains): 19 440 (next year)

Maximum theoretical single direction capacity (pass./hr/dir) at 256 pass./car and 2 min. headway:
3-car train 23,040
4-car train 30,720


Source: http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/technical_information.html

Wow, what an illuminating read! I like it!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I can't find Toronto's operating speeds but I can find Montreal's and Vancouver's:

Montreal: Average speed is 40km with a top speed of 72km.

Vancouver: Average speed is 45km (I do believe this is the fastest in the nation) with a top speed of 90km (E/M lines) and 80km (C line).

Toronto is probably the one that have the most complete info about this...

Approx average speed for each line:
Youge-Univ-Spadina: 31km/h
Bloor-Danforth: 31km/h
Shepphard: 29km/h
Scaroborough RT: 29km/h

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Symz

Just to pick everyone's brains on regional transit. I read a local CBC article talking about Windsor-Essex politicians are pressing higher levels of government for transit infrastructure dollars.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2013/08/20/wdr-ottawa-conference.html

In Windsor-Essex we essentially have no regional transit. Surrounding Windsor are two adjacent towns. They're so close you can't tell where Windsor stops and the towns begin. (There are also other towns that are just a little farther out). The odd part is if you live in these adjacent towns you can't even take a bus into Windsor because we have no regional agreement. The town doesn't want Transit Windsor to come into their town and so they came up with their own little bus which was called 'the bus to nowhere' because it didn't link up with the bus system in Windsor. The other town doesn't even have it's own little bus. Windsor doesn't want the towns bus to step into their transit territory. So the point is if you live in these towns which basically seem like a part of Windsor you can't even rely on public transportation to get INTO town, nor can you take a transit Windsor bus into these towns. We're still dominated by cars down here which I think hurts us in some ways.

So what I'm wondering is, do you guys think that by strengthening transit in the area and actually providing some sort of regional transit would it boost the slow growth in this area or is it the other way around, build the regional transit because of growth?

All I can say is, just imagine if the cities of Kitchener and Waterloo didn't allow each other's buses to cross city limits.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

All I can say is, just imagine if the cities of Kitchener and Waterloo didn't allow each other's buses to cross city limits.

Actually, Waterloo never had a bus system of its own. Before transit became a regional responsibility, Kitchener's system served Waterloo.

A propos of regional inter-city transit, CBC reports today that K-C-W, Guelph and Brantford are making a united approach to the province for improved transportation networks in southwestern Ontario. Makes sense when you consider the close proximity of these places and the volume of traffic between them.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-...ayor-farbridge-transporation-issues.html

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Beedok

So that's what they're doing at Lansdowne. I'd tried figuring it out, but with the thread being like 200 pages long I got kind of scared.

Buses, buses and more buses. Nothing but hoards of buses. Oh, and possibly water taxies.

The site used to be a giant parking lot (plus arena, stadium and a few mostly empty historic buildings) with 2,200 number of spots. When it opens, there will be around 1,350 parking spots for the same number of seats in the arena/stadium and the office building and retail. Not sure if the 1,350 spots includes condo parking.

To balance out the parking shortage, the City will build a small parking garage a few blocks away, I can't remember the number of parking spots for this one.

My biggest fear is that when we see the mess, the City will have the bright idea of spending a billion dollars on re-instating the Bank Street tramways taken out in 58' instead of going all out and building a subway line.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Actually, Waterloo never had a bus system of its own. Before transit became a regional responsibility, Kitchener's system served Waterloo.

A propos of regional inter-city transit, CBC reports today that K-C-W, Guelph and Brantford are making a united approach to the province for improved transportation networks in southwestern Ontario. Makes sense when you consider the close proximity of these places and the volume of traffic between them.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-...ayor-farbridge-transporation-issues.html

I wish Hamilton could get properly linked up to those cities. They're mostly closer than Toronto is.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I wish Hamilton could get properly linked up to those cities. They're mostly closer than Toronto is.

It's so true. Neither Highway 8 via Cambridge, nor the 401/Highway 6 route makes you want to drive between K-W and Hamilton without very good reason. Other than passing through on the way to Niagara, I have only been to Hamilton once in my life, to visit the Botanical Gardens, and its what, like 50 or 60 kilometres away?

[leftimage]

I wonder if the new metro cars in Montreal will be faster?



• Video Link

[vegeta_skyline]

Originally Posted by logan5

Your post prompted me to look up some info on Go. The frequency for Go is between 20 - 30 mins, with station spacing at around 7km (if my calculations are correct). I'm not sure of the capacity of the Go system

Station spacing on the busiest lines and the only lines with service out side of rush hour is actually closer to 5 not 7km;
Lakeshore West - 55.7km / 11 stops = 5.1km per stop
Lakeshore East - 50.7km / 10 stops = 5.1km per stop

As for peak capacity, Metrolinx has stated that the system has capacity between 5,000-20,000 depending on the line in the peak hr & peak direction. The Richmond Hill line likely being the lowest and the Lakeshore West being the highest.

Specifically, the highest capacity on GO lines is seen between 8:05am at 8:33 am when 6 trains arrive at Union station off the Lakeshore West line. Seating capacity per coach is 162 people. Some trains are 10 cars while others are 12 cars long. A 10-car train will have a seating capacity of 1,620 and a 12 car train 1,944. I can assure having you having operated and walked through these trains with regularly that its standing room only in almost every coach by the time the train makes its last stop prior to Union. Considering that, 2,000 passengers per trains is a reasonable estimate although the actual numbers may even be higher, perhaps even approaching 2,500 per train. This equates to approx. 12,000 to 15,000 people arriving at Union from the Lakeshore West line in that 1/2 hour period. Which would of course equal 24,000 to 30,000 pph. Also the average speed of those 6 trains range from a high of 60kph to a low of 45kph. Top speed being 150kph.

However capacity is constrained by track space in the USRC where the other lines merge and by loading/unloading times at Union. Thus maintaining that level of service for a single line for more than a short period of time is difficult since without limiting the number of trains arriving at Union from the other lines. Which is why when you extend the period to one hour, the total number of trains only increases to 8 which equates to the total peak period total of 20,000pph. Fortunately work is underway to increase the capacity of the system within the USRC and at Union station itself.

[Innsertnamehere]

I'd trust this guy, he drives GO trains for a living.