The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Likely the most important environmental infrastructure project in Canadian history - rivalled only by Winnipeg's Red River Floodway - just got approved and will begin construction within a couple months. It will be operational by the 2024 flood season, and will save the federation's third largest municipality and fourth largest metropolitan area tens of billions in damages over the next century alone.

Thank gods.


Construction on long-awaited Springbank reservoir to protect Calgary area from floods is officially a go

$432M reservoir expected to be operational by 2024





https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ners-1.6229959

There was quite fierce opposition to this from landowners there iirc. Glad to see strict guidelines for protecting fish habitat etc. as part of the deal. The rumoured site for the Bow River diversion dam seems much worse. The UCP has bought land directly across the river from the Glenbow Ranch provincial park. Again, this is speculation but I wouldn't put it past them.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by rofina

This is not a gotcha, but a genuine curiosity.

Does an install like that ever pay off in the lifespan of the solar panels?

That is, the 25% reduction in cost from energy consumption, how many decades would it take for that to pay off the supply and install of the system?

Part of the analysis during design is the cost payback. Yes this is about 15 year payback. all projects we do are analysed for cost over the life of the upgrades or new construction. There were also quite a few upgrades done in that facility as well. The pool pumps were all switched to VFD drives. The Rink flooding is using nonheated water now. (forgot the name of the system but it removes air bubbles). And there were upgrades to the ice plants.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

There was quite fierce opposition to this from landowners there iirc. Glad to see strict guidelines for protecting fish habitat etc. as part of the deal. The rumoured site for the Bow River diversion dam seems much worse. The UCP has bought land directly across the river from the Glenbow Ranch provincial park. Again, this is speculation but I wouldn't put it past them.

Also noticed that 22 runs right through the flood plain.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Also noticed that 22 runs right through the flood plain.

Yeah I wondered about that too. I wonder if they will be building a bridge or something?

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Yeah I wondered about that too. I wonder if they will be building a bridge or something?

I could only think that they would raise the road.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Part of the analysis during design is the cost payback. Yes this is about 15 year payback. all projects we do are analysed for cost over the life of the upgrades or new construction. There were also quite a few upgrades done in that facility as well. The pool pumps were all switched to VFD drives. The Rink flooding is using nonheated water now. (forgot the name of the system but it removes air bubbles). And there were upgrades to the ice plants.

15 years is not bad at all for a commercial asset. That's getting to be quite reasonable.

One more follow up; what's the expected lifespan on a panel system like this?

Thanks for the insight!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

15 years is not bad at all for a commercial asset. That's getting to be quite reasonable.

Especially considering this is Alberta. You'd think huge investments would be flowing into this stuff in the southern US, where they have more sun, lower costs to install, and higher market electricity rates.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Especially considering this is Alberta. You'd think huge investments would be flowing into this stuff in the southern US, where they have more sun, lower costs to install, and higher market electricity rates.

The investment is there. It just doesn't get the press. St Albert has a few more upgrades planned. City of Edmonton as well. The contractors we had on this one had just hired 14 more staff to train since they were so busy.

Panel life is increasing with each new version. Can't say how long the current ones last. Hell I am still new to it. I come from a mechanical background.

[ssiguy]

Even as we transition to zero emissions vehicles, net zero by 2050 will be impossible unless we get rid of "clean burning" natural gas.

The reality is that only 27% of Canada's emissions come from transportation while a whopping 40% comes from using fossil fuels to create energy. Of that, 70% is used to heat our homes and buildings almost exclusively by natural gas.

Despite what some {here's looking at you BC}, natural gas is a huge contributor to GHG and unless we rapidly transform our buildings over to clean electricity, net zero is a fairy tale.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Especially considering this is Alberta. You'd think huge investments would be flowing into this stuff in the southern US, where they have more sun, lower costs to install, and higher market electricity rates.

The duck curve, all that solar generation is concentrated in the mid-day (when demand is moderate) and falls off just as demand increases.

It's no surprise that California peak time-of-use hours are shifting further into the evening.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by accord1999

The duck curve, all that solar generation is concentrated in the mid-day (when demand is moderate) and falls off just as demand increases.

It's no surprise that California peak time-of-use hours are shifting further into the evening.

Yes, that's why storage is so important. TOU billing and smart devices and buildings can all help.

[Truenorth00]

Cheap charging at work would help too.

[O-tacular]

Talk about a one sided industry hit job:

https://globalnews.ca/video/8348554/...ls-devastating

Is Global News in the pocket of the forestry industry or something? I haven't even heard such rhetoric when Global discusses Alberta's oil patch. Old Growth logging is B.C.'s equivalent to our tarsands. An environmentally terrible practice that has been shown to result in much of the harvested wood ending up as nothing more than cheap bark mulch.

Hopefully the Provincial government keeps their resolve and protects those areas indefinitely.

[MolsonExport]

flying above BC reveals just how little of the southern part of the province has been saved from loggers. The amount of clear cutting is insane. I can't speak for the northern part.


cbc

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Is Global News in the pocket of the forestry industry or something?

Most large-scale Canadian media is in the pocket of some resource extraction industry or another.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Old Growth logging is B.C.'s equivalent to our tarsands.

Not really, since tar sands extraction is taking carbon that’s been buried in the earth’s crust for millions of years so that it can be burned into the atmosphere while logging takes carbon that has been fixed into cellulose over the past 100 years and then uses it to produce paper or building materials. Forestry companies then plant seedlings which repeats the carbon fixation cycle.

Then there is the alternative to logging, such as using more cement in construction, which is quite bad for carbon emissions.

Old growth forestry is bad for biodiversity and habitat loss, but my impression is that most commercial logging is done on second growth forests anyway.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Not really, since tar sands extraction is taking carbon that’s been buried in the earth’s crust for millions of years so that it can be burned into the atmosphere while logging takes carbon that has been fixed into cellulose over the past 100 years and then uses it to produce paper or building materials. Forestry companies then plant seedlings which repeats the carbon fixation cycle.

Then there is the alternative to logging, such as using more cement in construction, which is quite bad for carbon emissions.

Old growth forestry is bad for biodiversity and habitat loss, but my impression is that most commercial logging is done on second growth forests anyway.

It also bears repeating that most forest harvesting in 'old growth' is everything but clearcutting. Clearcutting is most often done on forest types that are of fire origin.

Even in Molson's picture you can see variable retention in each one of those cut blocks.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Not really, since tar sands extraction is taking carbon that’s been buried in the earth’s crust for millions of years so that it can be burned into the atmosphere while logging takes carbon that has been fixed into cellulose over the past 100 years and then uses it to produce paper or building materials. Forestry companies then plant seedlings which repeats the carbon fixation cycle.

Then there is the alternative to logging, such as using more cement in construction, which is quite bad for carbon emissions.

Old growth forestry is bad for biodiversity and habitat loss, but my impression is that most commercial logging is done on second growth forests anyway.

From what I have read BC has fudged the criteria for what constitutes second growth to basically include old growth forests. Something like 1% is all that remains.

Alberta has no old growth forest like BC but our wonderful provincial government just greenlit logging in the healthiest remaining woodland caribou habitat which is sure to devastate the endangered population that remains. Not to worry though, they'll cull more wolves to protect the herds.

Also our former Trump supporting AG/forestry minister who just resigned for being an alcoholic passed responsibility for forest management from government oversight to an industry panel to control for the next 20 years.



Deforestation is a serious climate change issue. The massive carbon sinks of old growth forests should be retained at all costs. Things like toilet paper should start utilizing bamboo and hemp.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Deforestation is a serious climate change issue. The massive carbon sinks of old growth forests should be retained at all costs. Things like toilet paper should start utilizing bamboo and hemp.

Deforestation isn't a thing in Canada. Afforestation is.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Deforestation is a serious climate change issue. The massive carbon sinks of old growth forests should be retained at all costs. Things like toilet paper should start utilizing bamboo and hemp.

When climate scientists talk about deforestation, they’re talking about burning forests - whether via wildfires or slash and burn clearance- and releasing carbon into the atmosphere through fires, not commercial logging of managed forests.