The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

My uncle recently bought a Camry - he didn't have the patience to wait years for a hybrid so got a base gasoline model. He'd been driving a 2001 Avalon for 22 years, and expects the Camry to last just as long.

Today I was looking at the 2024 Ford Bronco Sport: people buying these cars aren't going to trash them in 2035 - government talk can easily change.

Anyway, pretend I'm a rich doctor like my uncle: I'd have bought a Tesla Model 3 LR, or waited a few months for the better redesigned 2024 version.

It has never been suggested, afaik, that people "trash" their ICE vehicles in 2035.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It has never been suggested, afaik, that people "trash" their ICE vehicles in 2035.

That's when George Soros and his lizard-people cabal will ban gasoline and impose the final phase of 15 minute cities

[urbandreamer]

Another cargo ship fire caused by a German electric car - Fremantle Highway. Thousands of ICE cars to be trashed as a result? (Another reason I wouldn't buy an EV from VW Group.)

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by esquire

That's when George Soros and his lizard-people cabal will ban gasoline and impose the final phase of 15 minute cities

eat crickets non woke troglodytes

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Another cargo ship fire caused by a German electric car - Fremantle Highway. Thousands of ICE cars to be trashed as a result? (Another reason I wouldn't buy an EV from VW Group.)

I wonder if analysis has been possible in any of these cases. Is it a VW Group issue, or just a possibility for all lithium ion batteries exposed to high humidity/water exposure?

I read about non-EV case related to the recent flooding in Halifax, whereby somebody's battery-powered chainsaw became submerged in the flood, was removed and placed in a dry area to hopefully let it dry out. Hours later he heard a snap and went in to find the battery had spontaneously combusted. Extreme conditions for sure, but sure makes me nervous. I highly doubt whether most EV purchasers ever consider the potential negative effects of the amount of energy stored in these batteries sitting next to, or inside, their homes (by attached garage). IMHO, we haven't fully realized the extent of this potential problem.

Of course there's always the gas tank argument, but in reality the potential for issues are not the same.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I wonder if analysis has been possible in any of these cases. Is it a VW Group issue, or just a possibility for all lithium ion batteries exposed to high humidity/water exposure?

Tesla seems to have safely exported hundreds of thousands of cars from its Shanghai Gigafactory without torching a Ro-Ro.

EVs have lower rates of fires than internal combustion engine vehicles, with hybrids having the highest rates.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225...bout-ev-fires/

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Tesla seems to have safely exported hundreds of thousands of cars from its Shanghai Gigafactory without torching a Ro-Ro.

EVs have lower rates of fires than internal combustion engine vehicles, with hybrids having the highest rates.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225...bout-ev-fires/

That's why I would be curious about any analysis regarding these fires on ships. Not that this info would ever be made public. But... are the fires only German/VW related, or is it more spread out? If Teslas are actually that much better, then what are they doing to avoid the problem?

Of course the ICE/EV stat is commonly stated in these discussions, but IIRC, almost all ICE vehicle fires originate in the electrical system, and are much more easily knocked down by firefighters once they start. You almost never hear about a fuel tank exploding in a typical car fire, which is not to say that it doesn't happen.

What almost never comes up in these discussions is how nasty EV fires are once they do start. They typically take 5-figure gallons of water, and can restart even once the fire is out. In fact firefighter guidance recommends parking a compromised EV outside away from anything else because if the tendency to start burning again unexpectedly.

Having stated that, in these discussions I would fully expect to be labelled as anti-EV, and then some stat to be given saying there's nothing to worry about.

That said, I've also previously posted about technical advances being made to reduce the chances of thermal runaway, etc., and I'm aware that advances in battery construction and chemistry are on the way, so we'll see how that goes. Regardless, I still don't think that the average buying public are very aware of the hazards of having that much energy stored in their vehicles... but then vehicles are already inherently dangerous, so maybe it's just business as usual... just one more risk factor.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That's why I would be curious about any analysis regarding these fires on ships. Not that this info would ever be made public. But... are the fires only German/VW related, or is it more spread out? If Teslas are actually that much better, then what are they doing to avoid the problem?

Of course the ICE/EV stat is commonly stated in these discussions, but IIRC, almost all ICE vehicle fires originate in the electrical system, and are much more easily knocked down by firefighters once they start. You almost never hear about a fuel tank exploding in a typical car fire, which is not to say that it doesn't happen.

What almost never comes up in these discussions is how nasty EV fires are once they do start. They typically take 5-figure gallons of water, and can restart even once the fire is out. In fact firefighter guidance recommends parking a compromised EV outside away from anything else because if the tendency to start burning again unexpectedly.

Having stated that, in these discussions I would fully expect to be labelled as anti-EV, and then some stat to be given saying there's nothing to worry about.

That said, I've also previously posted about technical advances being made to reduce the chances of thermal runaway, etc., and I'm aware that advances in battery construction and chemistry are on the way, so we'll see how that goes. Regardless, I still don't think that the average buying public are very aware of the hazards of having that much energy stored in their vehicles... but then vehicles are already inherently dangerous, so maybe it's just business as usual... just one more risk factor.

You're absolutely correct that if an EV catches fire, it's a nasty thing to extinguish (and keep extinguished). It wasn't my intent to paint you as anti-EV, either.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

You're absolutely correct that if an EV catches fire, it's a nasty thing to extinguish (and keep extinguished). It wasn't my intent to paint you as anti-EV, either.

Yeah, I realize you weren't implying that. It was just my prediction based on past discussions. At times, if one points out any potential disadvantages or bad points of the technology, there is a tendency to be placed in the 'anti' category. It's just part of posting on the internet.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Another cargo ship fire caused by a German electric car - Fremantle Highway. Thousands of ICE cars to be trashed as a result? (Another reason I wouldn't buy an EV from VW Group.)

The article I read said they were also carrying Mercedes products.

[SpongeG]

Rivian CEO says buying an ICE vehicle is like ‘building a horse barn,’ R2 will help pull buyers
Peter Johnson | Jul 27 2023

https://electrek.co/2023/07/27/rivia...l-pull-buyers/

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yeah, I realize you weren't implying that. It was just my prediction based on past discussions. At times, if one points out any potential disadvantages or bad points of the technology, there is a tendency to be placed in the 'anti' category. It's just part of posting on the internet.

It sounds like you're anti-toxic internet commenting! Get the pitchforks, boys. This one hates progress.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I wonder if analysis has been possible in any of these cases. Is it a VW Group issue, or just a possibility for all lithium ion batteries exposed to high humidity/water exposure?

There is some evidence that certain battery designs are more risk. This is also about chemistry, pack design and thermal management systems. All of these things are improving rapidly and we should see declining fire risk over time.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

https://electrek.co/2023/07/27/rivia...l-pull-buyers/

The performance and drivability of an EV, Scaringe says, makes it “so much more desirable than an alternative.” He added, “Buying a non-EV just feels very old,” not only for the environmental responsibility but also because ICE cars are just plain boring.

Ehh, I'm not sure if I'm buying what he's selling. Clearly he's never driven a car with VTEC. And EVs are becoming more and more alike rather than unique. The only distinguishing factor is going to be is how many tablets are they going to use.

- Kewl instant torque with regen braking! Huehuehue
- Ayooo numb steering
- Compare frunk sizes
- Conclusion: it's nice

That's your future EV car review template. It's also in its inherent nature to be boring, as ultimately the goal is to disassociate the driver with the car, and have them assume the role of passenger.

We have to consider the source too. He might have some incentive to boost EVs.

[Truenorth00]

He's not entirely wrong. Tony Seba made the exact same point. And he doesn't own a car or a car company.

There's going to be a point where regular ICEVs rapidly depreciate as EV sales hit the main part of the S-curve where sales share is going up 5% per year.

Sure, some exotic ICEV will retain its value. There's exceptions to every rule. But if you buy a brand new fully gas Civic or Corolla today, it's value in 2030 is probably going to be under $1k. Especially if there is any form of carbon tax remaining that moves gas prices up to $2/L by then. A world where EVs keep drifting down in price, while moving up in capability is terrible for the value of most ICEVs. And that's before the acceleration caused by carbon taxes.

[homebucket]

Why you should still consider a Tesla despite all the new competition, according to one of YouTube's most popular car reviewers
Tim Levin
Thu, July 27, 2023 at 3:58 AM HST

Don't count out Tesla just yet. Despite intensifying competition from big-name brands, Elon Musk's carmaker still makes some of the best electric vehicles out there, according to one of the internet's biggest car reviewers.

Doug DeMuro, whose YouTube channel has racked up 4.7 million subscribers, told Insider that Tesla's Model 3 and Model Y are some of his go-to recommendations for EV-curious car buyers. That's despite the fact that Tesla hasn't meaningfully updated the sedan or SUV in years and that new rivals are popping up by the day.

Tesla was so far ahead that others are just catching up
"I would still consider one because, at the end of the day, they were so innovative when they first came out that the other automakers are only just starting to catch up to them now," DeMuro said. "They're still great cars even though competitors have arrived."

Tesla still beats many rivals when it comes to driving range, perhaps the most important stat to consider when buying an EV. The Model 3 sedan offers up to 333 miles of range, per the EPA, while the Model Y SUV provides up to 330 miles. Only a handful of EVs on sale today crack 300 miles. They're also efficient and charge quickly.

In reviews of Teslas, DeMuro calls out their punchy performance, technology (each Tesla has an iPad-like screen with lots of quirks and features), minimalist interiors, and front trunks. Tesla pioneered the use of big, flashy touchscreens and the ability to update car software with new features, just like a smartphone.

...

Bang for your buck
"They provide a pretty good value — dollars per horsepower, per mile of range kind of value," said DeMuro, who also started the car-auction website Cars & Bids.

Tesla has slashed is prices this year and buyers are now able to take advantage of a revamped federal tax credit for EV purchases. It means Teslas are cheaper than they've been in years. A Model 3 starts at $32,740 after the tax credit. It's $40,240 for the Model Y. In June, the average EV sold for $53,438, according to Kelley Blue Book.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/w...135851505.html

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

He's not entirely wrong. Tony Seba made the exact same point. And he doesn't own a car or a car company.

There's going to be a point where regular ICEVs rapidly depreciate as EV sales hit the main part of the S-curve where sales share is going up 5% per year.

Sure, some exotic ICEV will retain its value. There's exceptions to every rule. But if you buy a brand new fully gas Civic or Corolla today, it's value in 2030 is probably going to be under $1k. Especially if there is any form of carbon tax remaining that moves gas prices up to $2/L by then. A world where EVs keep drifting down in price, while moving up in capability is terrible for the value of most ICEVs. And that's before the acceleration caused by carbon taxes.

We do need to see a bit more diverse offerings in the EV market - which we should be seeing sometime soon? - before I'd really make that call.

There's a lot of people that stubbornly hold on to old cars because they don't like all the sensors, screens, and nanny alarms in newer cars. I recently had to rent a brand new car and it was an awful experience, the damn thing was constantly beeping because of some sensor.. too far to the left in your lane? BEEP BEEP lane departure warning! you've been driving for more than an hour straight? BEEP BEEP fatigue warning, take a coffee break! you just turned off your car? BEEP BEEP reminder to check the back seat for a baby! And every single thing you want to adjust - whether it's your mirror angle, the air conditioning, the radio volume, whatever.. it all requires navigating menus on a touchscreen or using voice commands. Whatever happened to good old fashioned dials and buttons?

It's infuriating and I fantasized about smashing the dashboard with a hammer.

Funny enough everyone I ever talk to about this feels the exact same way, but if you want to a buy new car nowadays, EV or ICE, there's very few products that aren't loaded to the brim with all this crap. I'd like to have a beer with a car salesperson one day and ask how many customers he gets that make this rant.

My neighbour ranted to me about this other day and said he'll only replace his old Corolla with an EV if someone makes a "dumb EV" without all this nonsense.

[whatnext]

And now it is being said there are about 500 EV's on the Freemantle Highway! Sucks if you've been waiting for that EV.

Burning Ship’s Operator Says Almost 500 EVs Are on Board
Number of electric cars is much higher than previously known
Battery fires burn hot and can be difficult to extinguish

By Cagan Koc
July 28, 2023 at 5:44 AM EDT
Updated on July 28, 2023 at 12:08 PM EDT

The car carrier on fire near the Netherlands coast has almost 500 electric cars on board, according to its operator, more than was previously reported.

The cause of the blaze on the Fremantle Highway is still unknown, according to the Dutch coast guard, which previously said the initial cargo list they received suggested just 25 EVs were on the ship.

Whether EVs had anything to do with precipitating the fire, the number on board is relevant to what’s likely to be a days-long effort to extinguish it. Lithium-ion battery fires burn hotter and last longer than gasoline. They can also be difficult to put out, sometimes reigniting hours or days later...

....The ship is carrying a total of 3,783 vehicles, including 498 electric cars, according to its charterer Kawasaki Kisen Kaisha Ltd. There are several hundred BMW AG cars on board, plus roughly 300 Mercedes-Benz Group AG vehicles, representatives for the companies have said....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...?sref=x4rjnz06

[Changing City]

Here's an interesting new business in Vancouver, opened across the street from the Polestar service centre.

Factor E is Vancouver's first Independent Tesla dealership:​

We provide service, parts and certified pre-owned Tesla sales, all designed to maintain your Tesla warranty.

We have award winning Tesla-trained technicians to fix your Tesla right the first time.
​
We offer quick service with same day or next day turn around. ​

We offer a 15% discount off Tesla's posted labour rates. ​

Best of all, we offer access to real human beings who can answer your Tesla questions and concerns quickly. Our goal is to provide our customers with a peace of mind Tesla ownership experience.​

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by homebucket

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/w...135851505.html

American prices. Not sold that these stories translate directly to Canada with different rebates in different provinces. There's also provinces in Canada where charging is much better than in most of the US. Quebec, for example.