Winnipeg | Hudson’s Bay Building | Wehwehneh Bahgahkinahgohn | U/C

[Biff]

I get that the money could be targeted at the building specifically for improvements, but that doesn't help the chains overall viability and ability to keep one store open over others across the country. I think it would have been a short term injection of money to prolong the inevitable.

[esquire]

The ship has sailed on the chain. I recall there were some government grants (can't remember which level, I think municipal?) provided to Eaton's downtown store in the mid 90s and it was for naught since a few years later they announced the store's closure anyway.

Government money for the building's redevelopment is fine, but government money for Hudson's Bay the chain would be wildly ill-advised.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by esquire

The ship has sailed on the chain. I recall there were some government grants (can't remember which level, I think municipal?) provided to Eaton's downtown store in the mid 90s and it was for naught since a few years later they announced the store's closure anyway.

Government money for the building's redevelopment is fine, but government money for Hudson's Bay the chain would be wildly ill-advised.

I do believe Eatons received no help whatsoever. This is the first I have ever heard of it I worked there at that time and prior.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I do believe Eatons received no help whatsoever. This is the first I have ever heard of it I worked there at that time and prior.

I don't remember the details, but I think the City fronted some cash to Eatons to pay for building improvements in the mid 90s...maybe it was new windows? I seem to recall that it came up when the store closed a few years later... there was some criticism that the money was for naught since the store closed and the building was slated for demolition anyway.

Incidentally, I went by HBC today for the first time since the boards went up and geez does it look sad. I don't think we've ever had such a big boarded up building in downtown Winnipeg before. I wonder if HBC will keep paying taxes on it?

[1ajs]

they better not turn the heat off

[trueviking]

Wow.

[esquire]

Andy6 is right, and the longer it sits empty the more that people will come around to that view.

It would be one thing if companies with money to spend were stepping up, but in this case every idea seems to be a variation of mainly government-funded projects along the lines of apartments on the upper levels, a museum and youth drop in centre on the lower levels or something like that... at a certain point it starts to feel like Weekend at Bernie's where you're spending money to try and make a corpse look alive.

I'd like to think that there is a reasonable case to be made for an office building conversion along the lines of the Eaton's Mail Order Warehouse, but no one seems interested. If there is no legitimate use for the building left then it's time to move on and get something good built there instead. Four modest sized projects that fulfill real needs is much better than one massive megaproject that, as Andy6 put it, is kind of contrived and is driven mainly by a need to pretend there is still a use for a massive old department store.

Eaton's was even bigger, but it got demolished and replaced by something relevant to 21st century Winnipeg... we all moved on. The same can happen with The Bay.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by esquire

Andy6 is right, and the longer it sits empty the more that people will come around to that view.

It would be one thing if companies with money to spend were stepping up, but in this case every idea seems to be a variation of mainly government-funded projects along the lines of apartments on the upper levels, a museum and youth drop in centre on the lower levels or something like that... at a certain point it starts to feel like Weekend at Bernie's where you're spending money to try and make a corpse look alive.

I'd like to think that there is a reasonable case to be made for an office building conversion along the lines of the Eaton's Mail Order Warehouse, but no one seems interested. If there is no legitimate use for the building left then it's time to move on and get something good built there instead. Four modest sized projects that fulfill real needs is much better than one massive megaproject that, as Andy6 put it, is kind of contrived and is driven mainly by a need to pretend there is still a use for a massive old department store.

Eaton's was even bigger, but it got demolished and replaced by something relevant to 21st century Winnipeg... we all moved on. The same can happen with The Bay.

I think it's way too early to be considering that position, though. The store literally just closed three months ago. A bit soon to be saying "well, nothing's happening, better throw in the towel and tear her down".

It may take years for a productive reuse of the building to come to fruition, and I don't see a problem with that. Though it would be great if a temporary use to animate the ground floor space could be found in the interim.

[T'Cona]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

I think it's way too early to be considering that position, though. The store literally just closed three months ago. A bit soon to be saying "well, nothing's happening, better throw in the towel and tear her down".

It may take years for a productive reuse of the building to come to fruition, and I don't see a problem with that. Though it would be great if a temporary use to animate the ground floor space could be found in the interim.

There is no reason to even think the building will be demolished...at this point anyway. I think the effort is being made to redevelop the building, but based on the costs associated with this, our level of patience will need to increase, as this will indeed take some time with so many players involved behind the scenes.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

Andy6 is right, and the longer it sits empty the more that people will come around to that view.

It would be one thing if companies with money to spend were stepping up, but in this case every idea seems to be a variation of mainly government-funded projects along the lines of apartments on the upper levels, a museum and youth drop in centre on the lower levels or something like that... at a certain point it starts to feel like Weekend at Bernie's where you're spending money to try and make a corpse look alive.

I'd like to think that there is a reasonable case to be made for an office building conversion along the lines of the Eaton's Mail Order Warehouse, but no one seems interested. If there is no legitimate use for the building left then it's time to move on and get something good built there instead. Four modest sized projects that fulfill real needs is much better than one massive megaproject that, as Andy6 put it, is kind of contrived and is driven mainly by a need to pretend there is still a use for a massive old department store.

Eaton's was even bigger, but it got demolished and replaced by something relevant to 21st century Winnipeg... we all moved on. The same can happen with The Bay.

I can tell you with 100% certainty, the building is going nowhere. It has been empty for two months for goodness sake. Eaton's was wood frame and was not well suited to re-use. and honestly if it were not for the happenstance that we needed an arena and the property was owned by the richest man in the country, it would probably still be there.

This building will be redeveloped.

Having a giant empty site doesn't make that property any more attractive....and it would probably cost the government as much to take it down as it would to subsidize a redevelopment.

Patience, everyone. It will find a new life. It's not as insurmountable as many here seem to believe. In the past the Bay wanted $20 million for the building. That is likely no longer the case. Now that the Bay is actually gone, things will come together.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I can tell you with 100% certainty, the building is going nowhere. It has been empty for two months for goodness sake. Eaton's was wood frame and was not well suited to re-use. and honestly if it were not for the happenstance that we needed an arena and the property was owned by the richest man in the country, it would probably still be there.

This building will be redeveloped.

Having a giant empty site doesn't make that property any more attractive....and it would probably cost the government as much to take it down as it would to subsidize a redevelopment.

Patience, everyone. It will find a new life. It's not as insurmountable as many here seem to believe. In the past the Bay wanted $20 million for the building. That is likely no longer the case. Now that the Bay is actually gone, things will come together.

I hope you are right. But I am looking at this not through the lens of the store being closed for two months, but through the lens of the store's closure being anticipated for decades now and still no viable proposals have been floated for it. We've known for nearly 20 years that this store's demise was imminent... in some respects it lasted longer than I expected it to. However, it feels like we're no closer to seeing something happen in there than we were in 2010.

I agree that it is not an insurmountable challenge... provided that the demand for the space existed. A year ago we were talking about Skip the Dishes possibly building a big office building... find a company in expansion mode like that and suddenly half of The Bay is spoken for. If residential demand were high enough this would be a perfect candidate for conversion. But no one is stepping up.

I am fine with waiting for a while with a boarded up behemoth at one of our city's most prominent intersections... I'd give it a year or three. At some point you have to cut bait, though.

[1ajs]

cold turn it into a giant condo and split it up? into areas for residential and other uses

and if it takes 20 yrs to get it fully ocupied so what do it winnipeg style slow and steady

[Wpg_Guy]

Part of Starlights revised ask from the Federal government involves possible redevelopment of The Bay.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Part of Star Lights new ask from the Federal government involves possible redevelopment of The Bay.

Starlight is really grabbing for the brass ring here. At this point why not just ask for another billion dollars of government money to build a NFL stadium at The Forks?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Starlight is really grabbing for the brass ring here. At this point why not just ask for another billion dollars of government money to build a NFL stadium at The Forks?

No kidding sweetening the make believe to get to the honey pot!

[esquire]

^ Now that the store is boarded up it may serve as a bit of a motivating factor, but come on... we all knew that this store's days as a going retail concern were numbered probably for about the last 15 years. People having been trying to come up with ideas and plans for reuse for at least that long and nothing is sticking.

Maybe the plywood will get governments to loosen the purse strings a bit, but if developers weren't interested in 2015 I doubt they are going to feel much differently about it in 2021. Unless governments are willing to step in and absorb a far greater amount of the costs and risks, that is, which frankly I'm not sure is such a great idea... we already have one very costly government backed development across the street that we're trying to sort out.

[DirtWednesday]

Throwing in another wrench into the "demolish it club"... There is also a separately owned parkade that is married to the Bay. Demolishing the Bay in order to build something new will probably cost more than updating the existing building.

[Kris22]

I honestly can't imagine the "demolish it" view gaining any traction for at least 5 years. I would say 5 years is a fair amount of time to wait for a viable proposal to materialize for a project of this scale.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Kris22

I honestly can't imagine the "demolish it" view gaining any traction for at least 5 years. I would say 5 years is a fair amount of time to wait for a viable proposal to materialize for a project of this scale.

I sure hope you're right. The defeatist attitude by some so soon after closure is concerning. The Met sat for what 25 years before being renovated? And 18 years for the Union Bank Tower. Thank goodness we still have them rather than some nondescript boxes or vacant lots. Once they're gone, they're gone. Still regret 60 years after demolition of the old City Hall which could have been preserved even if a new civic centre had been built nearby. I can't imagine what demolishing the Bay would do for Winnipeg's psyche. The building's situation on a key corner and combined with its Beaux-Arts beauty anchoring the vista down the Mall makes it much more valuable than the Eaton's building ever was. Lacking very much natural beauty, Winnipeggers need to be more cognizant of preserving urban vistas and the general aesthetic and start understanding that our stock of historic buildings is the best feature of the city, most especially the downtown area. The overpasses on Portage Avenue are horrific and obliterate the once amazing and incredibly unique view out Portage when standing in front of the Bank of Montreal.

Other cities have suffered closures of large downtown department stores and have had success in re-purposing, though in varying spans of time. The key is patience and a commitment to ensure maintenance.


Kaufmann's, Pittsburgh

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202004020088

Dayton's, Minneapolis

https://www.thedaytonsproject.com/

Rich's Atlanta, known now as the 1924 Building, turned into part of a federal government office complex. That's a possibillity, could the Bay be re-purposed with retail, esp. food oriented retail (How about a FreshCo?, that would be the store to meet the demographics, students and lower income) on the main level and used for the CRA on the upper floors. If Winnipeg is going to serve the Western Region on its own given the population growth will there not be a need for additional space besides the Stapon Road facility? And then you bring more workers, and a percentage of them would choose to live nearby, downtown to support existing downtown retail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich%2...partment_store)

[T'Cona]

I cannot imagine the city would grant permission to demolish the building anytime soon, and if a proposal was submitted for a tower to replace the building, it would have to be spectacular, and check off all the boxes.