NEW YORK | Port Authority Bus Terminal Replacement

[Submariner]

That's literally the only redeeming quality about that 3rd world disaster. And even then, it isn't that great. It's a statue of a TV character; when they pay homage to, say, someone of actual note, give me a call.

[Nexis4Jersey]

NY reddit and some News comment sections disagree with your idea of New Yorkers being opposed to a New terminal... Most people seem to want a new terminal in NY along with other NY infrastructure upgrades.... Only the pro-redevelopment people on sites like these seem to want it to be built elsewhere and a Penn station downscale...

[C.]

The new terminal is planned to be located west of 9th street, and the existing PABT will be demolished for redevelopment. We could be looking at Manhattan's next mega development after Hudson Yards!

It will be interesting to see, for political reasons, if the Port Authority submits to NYC's zoning, strong-arms to city to force rezoning, or utilizes its immunity to local zoning, granted by the interstate compact authorized by the States and Congress.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by CIA

The new terminal is planned to be located west of 9th street, and the existing PABT will be demolished for redevelopment. We could be looking at Manhattan's next mega development after Hudson Yards!

It will be interesting to see, for political reasons, if the Port Authority submits to NYC's zoning, strong-arms to city to force rezoning, or utilizes its immunity to local zoning, granted by the interstate compact authorized by the States and Congress.

If the board was united maybe but they aren't or even close. The NY members probably won't authorize the agency to override NYC's land use process and the local pols will hamstring the project. The city could also make it super difficult to actually build as well even if they did. Without local buy in I'm not seeing a path forward.

[C.]

Good analysis, I agree that's the likley outcome. Although, this project is of great importance, to not only to the region, but to the economic health of the United States. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people a day that rely on it to access their jobs. It may be too important of a decision to leave to local pols, political bickering, and NIMBYism. The cost will be in excess of $10 billion. Maybe $15 billion considering the inevitable cost overruns. The amount of Real Estate development the Port Authority chooses to allow will directly reduce their capital contribution to the new PABT. I would not be surprised to see another Atlantic Yards-type situation. The State could reaffirm Port Authority's immunity to zoning, to take some of the political pressure off Port Authority acting alone.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by CIA

I would not be surprised to see another Atlantic Yards-type situation. The State could reaffirm Port Authority's immunity to zoning, to take some of the political pressure off Port Authority acting alone.

Given that open opposition from NY's PA board members would be extremely unlikely to have come without Cuomo's approval I'm suspecting that is not in the offing. With city, state, and federal officials lining up against a new Manhattan terminal I'd be rather shocked to see Cuomo buck them all without a real good reason...which at this point doesn't appear to exist.

[C.]

Signaling a truce, Port Authority and West Side officials announce 'comprehensive planning process’

The Port Authority and the West Side elected officials who have been engaged in a protracted battle over plans for a new bus terminal in Midtown Manhattan appear to have signed some sort of peace treaty.

On Tuesday morning, they issued a joint statement endorsing “a new expanded, comprehensive planning process,” one that allows for the consideration of “ potential temporary and additional bus facility sites” and takes into account “how a new bus facility should be integrated with current and future regional transportation assets.”

The statement indicates that the Port Authority is, once again, delaying a decision on where to build a new bus terminal to replace the Port Authority Bus Terminal just west of Times Square, which has been over capacity for years now, is nearing the end of its structural lifespan, and is considered obsolete.

Later this week, the Port Authority is planning to release both the results of bus terminal design competition and a study of alternative ways to enhance cross-Hudson commuting capacity, both of which were supposed to aid in a final decision.

The five design competition entries, which no longer seem to matter so much, include a proposal to build a bus terminal underground at the existing site, another proposal to build a bus terminal beneath Javits Center, and more conservative proposals with modular components and green roofs, according to a source briefed on the matter. One of the options would cost at least $16 billion, according to the source.

The study, meanwhile, once again touts the utility of extending the 7 train to Secaucus, since it would divert commuter traffic away from the bus terminal.
Both the study and the competition were supposed to be key factors in informing the Port Authority’s final decision on how to go about replacing the bus terminal.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/states/new-y...#ixzz4Ko9ogfyG
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[Nexis4Jersey]

The 7 train to NJ is a band aid solution and will not fix the root cause of the overcrowded buses..

[C.]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

The 7 train to NJ is a band aid solution and will not fix the root cause of the overcrowded buses..

Interesting comment. I would argue just the opposite: A new Manhattan bus terminal is a band aid solution and will not fix the root cause of the overcrowded buses. That can only be done with additional transhudson rail capacity.

[C.]

Fuck yeah!

Get em' while their hot!

http://www.pabtcompetition.com/

• Video Link

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

The 7 train to NJ is a band aid solution and will not fix the root cause of the overcrowded buses..

Correct, and the 7 train extension would not cancel the need for a new Manhattan PABT. It would still need to be relocated, but the successor station would be somewhat smaller if the 7 were extended (because much, but nowhere near all of the traffic could be diverted in Jersey).

In any case the existing terminal has to go; it's outdated, inefficient, and sits on extremely valuable land that the PA wants to sell.

[Crawford]

Port Authority, elected officials finally agree to move forward on new bus terminal

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/9/20/12988...sign-agreement

And here you go. The NIMBYs can now claim they have their "community engagment"; the PA can say it's "eager to listen to community concerns". Locals probably promised more subsidized housing or something, and all is well.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Port Authority, elected officials finally agree to move forward on new bus terminal

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/9/20/12988...sign-agreement

And here you go. The NIMBYs can now claim they have their "community engagment"; the PA can say it's "eager to listen to community concerns". Locals probably promised more subsidized housing or something, and all is well.

Lol...that's not a deal for a new bus terminal. That's a deal to talk about a new bus terminal which will delay anything by yet more years. This effectively makes the "design competition" worthless except as an idea bank for future negotiations.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by k1052

Lol...that's not a deal for a new bus terminal. That's a deal to talk about a new bus terminal which will delay anything by yet more years. This effectively makes the "design competition" worthless except as an idea bank for future negotiations.

That's likely all it was anyway.

[C.]

The results of the design competition is scheduled to be released today on a special website. No news yet???

[C.]

ARCADIS of New York
• Video Link


Archilier Architecture Consortium
• Video Link


Hudson Terminal Center Collaborative
• Video Link


Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects
• Video Link


Perkins Eastman
• Video Link

[C.]

Perkins Eastman

[C.]

From Hudson Terminal Center Collaborative

[Hamilton]

Can someone explain to me why a 7 train to Secaucus would be a "band-aid" solution? All of the buses at the PABT only handle about 220,000 riders in a single day. With CBTC/PTC, the 7 train could well handle the entirety of that load (the L train currently carries about 225,000 people under the East River daily). Even if demand does eventually grow to exceed the capacity of the 7 train, a 7 train extension would allow you to close and renovate half of PABT, then do the same to the other half. No need for ultra-expensive land acquisition and bulldozing on the West Side.

I also don't understand why NJ politicians oppose an NJ terminal + subway combo. Sure, it would create a "two-seat ride" for some people, but the Port Authority's preferred alternative is even worse: people will be walking an extra 7 minutes to work (or to the subway) daily, since the station will be one avenue farther from the Midtown CBD and from the Times Sq subway station. On top of that, many people who currently have to schlep from the West Side to the East Side for work would be able to take the subway straight to their office instead.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Hamilton

Can someone explain to me why a 7 train to Secaucus would be a "band-aid" solution?

Three reasons-

1. The vast majority of NJ bus passengers live nowhere near Secaucus, and you would make their commutes much worse by forcing two modes of transit to reach Manhattan. Politically impossible.

2. A Secaucus subway station could never handle current volume, to say nothing of future volume. A single subway stop can't carry hundreds of thousands of passengers daily, unless you built some mega-billion complex with a vast number of platforms. Super-busy subway stations have fewer passengers in a year than the PABT gets in a month.

The L train (which is horribly congested, BTW) has that kind of ridership along an entire route, not in one station. Imagine putting every L train passenger in the Bedford Ave. station. Kinda insane, no?

3. There are huge increases projected for cross-Hudson commuting. Many predict that passenger load will more than double by mid-century, so even assuming massive gains in NJ Transit commuter rail/PATH commuting, as well as ferry growth, there will be significant additional cross-Hudson capacity required.