Rapid Transit

[ryan_mcgreal]

SteelTown, I can't find the article on the Spec website. Do you have a link?

[SteelTown]

It's not online for some reason, must be technical problems. The article is on the newspaper (5th page).

Go to this pdf link

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/pdfs/20080507/A5.pdf

[SteelTown]

Update.......(make sure when you go to the session tomorrow you observe if Chad, Bernie, Brad or Russ shows any signs of supporting LRT)

Support LRT
Bob Bratina
Brian McHattie
Sam Merulla
Mayor Fred
Scott Duvall
Tom Jackson

Likely support LRT
Chad Collins
Bernie Morelli
Brad Clark
Russ Powers

Unsure
Terry Whitehead
Robert Pasuta
Maria Pearson

Likely against LRT
Margaret McCarthy
David L. Mitchell
Lloyd Ferguson

Looks like we have an excellent chance passing LRT support from council, require 8 votes to pass a majority.

[ryan_mcgreal]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rce_login=true

That chicken/egg thing

TIMOTHY JACOBS

May 7, 2008

Kelowna, B.C. -- Your profile of Hamilton and Harry Stinson
(Chicken-Egg Issue Tough To Crack - Report on Business, May 6) doesn't
note recent developments and grassroots movements contributing to
Hamilton's rejuvenation. Here are just a few items: McMaster
University's Innovation Park, two light rail lines, the restoration of
the Lister Block, a thriving bohemian arts district.

Hamilton's No. 1 employer is health sciences (not steel). Projects
like the Juravinski Cancer Centre and the Hamilton Health Sciences
Research Institute are adding countless professional-class jobs to the
city.

That Harry Stinson will probably develop the Connaught Hotel and add a
condo tower only adds to the buzz of Hamilton's urban renewal.

[flar]

^^good stuff

[SteelTown]

In 3 hours the next information session takes place.

Someone should comment about adding another rapid transit line along Barton Street, I meant to do that but completely forgot about it. It would be an economic boost for Barton when it's been hit hard over the past few decades.

[JT Jacobs]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

In 3 hours the next information session takes place.

Someone should comment about adding another rapid transit line along Barton Street, I meant to do that but completely forgot about it. It would be an economic boost for Barton when it's been hit hard over the past few decades.

I like the idea of a loop down Main ST to Ottawa ST (or wherever) and coming back east down Barton to James ST N and on up.

It would make the whole system one unit and, I agree, would certainly boost Barton ST which as we all know has the infrastructure of commercial shops and buildings and location to thrive once again.

[matt602]

Argh, I won't be able to make it tonight as I had hoped. Damn.

I hope the attendance turns out being huge though.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by JT Jacobs

I like the idea of a loop down Main ST to Ottawa ST (or wherever) and coming back east down Barton to James ST N and on up.

It would make the whole system one unit and, I agree, would certainly boost Barton ST which as we all know has the infrastructure of commercial shops and buildings and location to thrive once again.

The old belt line would be great.
I think they'll end up putting the comment sheet online, so you can go back and add it in then.

mind you, I'm not sure if I want Barton St back in the limelight. That'll just encourage slumlords like LIUNA to start purchasing property and ruin the streetwall.
That streetwall is Barton's only saving grace.

[SteelTown]

The comment form is already online. Go to

www.hamilton.ca/rapid-transit

Look at the upper right corner for "Comment Form". Fill it out and mail or email it. You have until May 20th.

Here's something that I made. The lady during the presentation showed me what it would look like to have stations along Main St.



The red box is a car parked. The gray box with an x is a station.

[SteelTown]

Mountain residents ride light transit system idea

By Kevin Werner
News
May 09, 2008

For most Hamilton Mountain residents, the city should put the pedal to the metal when it comes to constructing a new rapid transit system for the city.

And if the estimated 45 residents who attended a public meeting this week are any indication, they would support the city constructing a light rail transit system even though it is over double the cost of building a bus rapid transit system.

"This is forward thinking," said Robin McKee, during the first of two public meetings the city organized to gauge public opinion on choosing a rapid transit system for the city.

"I just hope that councillors agree to it and are not put off by the price. But they should do it piece meal so people get used to it."

Joe Rymal Woolley, a Mountain resident for most of his 75-plus years, said there are positives and negatives to constructing a light rail transit system.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks is the cost, including the unknown price tag to tunnel into the escarpment for a light rail system to move along James and Upper James streets from the downtown area to Rymal Road.

"Tunneling is almost out of the question," he said. "The question becomes the cost."

About 45 people turned out for the public meeting May 6 at the Sackville Hill Senior Centre for the city's presentation on whether light rail or bus rapid transportation system is better for the community.

One option is the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system that uses stations, a flexible operating plan, and improved technology to move people around the city. Hamilton has pointed to Halifax, Nova Scotia, and Bogota, Colombia as successful examples of BRT systems.

The other option is the Light Rail Transit System or LRT, a street-level rail system that uses electricity with overhead wires for energy. Cities that have adopted the system include Edmonton, Alberta, San Jose, California, and Portland, Oregon.

Both systems would be integrated into two proposed rapid transit routes: an A-line along James and Upper James from the Hamilton Airport to the waterfront, and a B-line along Main and King streets from McMaster University starting at University Plaza in Dundas to Eastgate Square on Centennial Parkway.

Some mountain residents did grumble the city should consider alternative routes rather than just concentrating on Upper James and Lime Ridge Mall.

Some of the differences between the two systems include the BRT system would restrict the James Street-Mountain Road routes to only transit and emergency vehicles, with the general vehicles diverted to the Claremont Access or the Jolley Cut.

With an a LRT, electricity is limited for the system; the bridges over James and King streets are too low to accommodate the vehicles, and for the LRT to cross the Niagara Escarpment, two 6.5 diameter tunnels would have to be constructed from St. Joseph's Hospital to Mohawk College.

But the biggest difference between the two systems is cost.

The BRT is identified by transportation staff as the least expensive, with the capital cost set at $6.5 million per km for one-way streets, and $9 million for two-way streets.

The capital cost for an LRT system is $15 million per km for a one-way street and $25 million per km for two-way streets.

The cost of a BRT hybrid bus is about $900,000, while it's $4 million for each LRT vehicle.

The provincial government through Metrolinx, has established a $17.5 billion fund to start paying for innovative transportation systems. Hamilton has already received $17.4 million for 12 new hybrid buses, and $6.9 million for passenger amenities for the A-line.

Grant Ranalli, a member of the recently formed city group Hamilton Light Rail, said building a light rail system will provide needed economic stimulus to the city, and showcase Hamilton as a progressive community.

"We are on the cusp of something great," he said. "The ambitious city can be the ambitious city again."

An overwhelming majority of people applauded the city's efforts to improve Hamilton's transit system. And by far they favoured a light rail system for the city.

One resident said he spent time in Switzerland and was shocked to discover their cities are car-free with people walking about the towns.

The residents' attitude about implement LRT mirrors Mayor Fred Eisenberger's, who has encourage the city to adopt a LRT system.

"I'm keen on LRTs," he said.

Jillian Stephen, manager of strategic planning, said besides holding two public meetings - the other session took place at the public school board office - city staff have been monitoring blogs and websites that have been talking about the issue.

"There seems to be general support for LRT," she said.

Michael Horwath, a Mountain resident and a bus driver for Hamilton's Street Railway Service for 34 years, said the city needs to do something to improve its current transportation system, but he remains skeptical about LRTs. He can remember the time when Hamilton had trolleys travelling throughout the city. The problem with them, he found, is whenever they had a mechanical problem and stalled on their rails, they caused traffic congestion.

"The downtown streets are so narrow," he said. "But we need to do something."

He suggested the city consider an elevated LRT. Ms. Stephen said her research team has not looked at the model.

Bernice Price, of the mountain, though, was one of the few people opposed to building a new transportation system.

"Leave well enough alone," said Ms. Price, who has attended a number of transportation meetings. "People are getting around."

She said introducing LRT into the downtown is a throwback to what Hamilton had 30 years ago with its trolleys.

"Hamilton is not conducive to rail traffic systems or bike trails on Main or King streets. This has already been tried and removed," she said.

City staff are expected to collect the results of residents' comments and present them to councillors in June. Transit staff will also make a recommendation to council about their transit choice, said Ms. Stephen.

"This is the first step in the city's transportation masterplan," said Ms. Stephen.

One of the plan's goals is to reduce single vehicle occupancy use by 20 per cent by 2020.

[DC83]

So last night was an interesting meeting! Lots of debate, could have almost been Parliament! haha

I was positioned in an akward spot: directly infront of former mayor Jack Macdonald, and about 4 seats down from Harry Stinson. Macdonald kept talking to his friend thru the presentation, and would laugh every time the City would mention the economic spinoffs due to LRT. I kept looking back and giving him dirty looks! haha

Jack Macdonald "Why not use trolley busses like we used to?"
Jill Stephens, "This is a rapid transit study..."

Stinson put his two words in re: LRT, saying he (as a developer) wouldn't invest a cent for BRT. But he also suggested the city hold an international design competition to come up w/ a 'made in Hamilton' solution for Rapid Transit.

It was an interesting info session, but it's pretty damn obvious everyone (with a brain) in this city hugely favours LRT... Jill Stephen (Public Works lady) says so herself. Even with a (supposed) $1.18 Billion price tag! <-- ps: That price includes the silly James Mtn Rd tunnel.

[oldcoote]

I was there as well.

Pretty good turnout.

I have to say though that I'm not as optimistic leaving the meeting as I was going in.

While I think this is a great opportunity, and the city seems committed to the idea, I got the sense the city was holding back info. I am concerned that they will use the capital expediture as an excuse to raise fares to a level that people will still prefer to travel by car. They seemed vague in answering a direct question about this. Perhaps this is the usual Hamilton pessimism creeping in.

The city needs to understand that they are better off recouping any investments in LRT through economic spinoff that through overcharging the transit user.

I was also a little concerned about the area's of the city where there would be no dedicated transit lane. (ie James North). That simply isn't high-speed transit, so I wonder if the investment in those area's is worth it.

Also, there was some suggestion of an elevated train. Loved Stravros' line abut The Simpsons though.

Stinson's idea of an international transit design competition was intriguing, but definitely outside of the box thinking. Probably better than paying consultants hundred's of thousands of dollars. Hell, there's probably people on this site that could design a more effective transit system than some of these consultants.

[raisethehammer]

for what it's worth...Portland has streetcars that run in mixed traffic and some other cities have LRT lines that share traffic in small portions of the route. I think it will work if done properly. And as long as most of the route has dedicated lanes.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

Also, there was some suggestion of an elevated train. Loved Stravros' line abut The Simpsons though.

I believe that was Mr Stinson & some other gentleman who suggested a monorail-type of technology. That Simpson's statement was damn funny!

I believe the report showed dedicated lanes between Dundurn - The Delta, and shared lanes from Delta - Eastgate in the east, and Mac - Dundurn in the west. I would (obviously) still prefer 100% dedicated lanes, so I'll be sure to add that in my contact sheet!

[raisethehammer]

the only area that needs shared lanes is Delta to Parkdale area. East of Red Hill the road allowance is huge....it's bigger than the 5-lane section downtown.

[ryan_mcgreal]

I just received this in the mail:

-------------------------------------

Media Release


Public meetings spark excitement for Rapid Transit initiative in Hamilton


HAMILTON, ON - May 9, 2008 - Two Public Information Centres hosted by Hamilton's Public Works Department this week drew more than150 people to
learn about the findings of a recently completed Rapid Transit Feasibility Study and to share feedback and ideas.

"We were extremely pleased with the attendance at the two Public Information Centres this week," said Jill Stephen, Manager of Strategic Planning for Hamilton's Public Works Department. "We heard from numerous people in the City representing diverse demographics and interests and that's exactly what a public consultation process needs. We learned that there is strong support for transit improvements in Hamilton and light rail in particular."

In general, based on an analysis of the comment forms that have been submitted to date, 92 per cent of those who have responded support Rapid Transit as defined by the Feasibility Study. That is further broken down to 68 per cent of respondents supporting Light Rail Transit, seven per cent supporting Bus Rapid Transit and 17 per cent not having a preference between the two at this time but are supportive of the need for rapid transit in general. An additional eight per cent do not support either of the technologies being presented.

Public information centres were held on Tuesday, May 6th at the Sackville Hill Seniors' Centre and on Thursday, May 8th at the Board of Education building. On both nights, guests had an opportunity to review the display panels and listen to a presentation which concluded with a dynamic question and answer period.

"There is a sense of urgency to ensure that Hamilton is included in the first cut at the Metrolinx five-year capital budget being released this fall," Stephen said. "We're currently analyzing feedback received at the public meetings, and through additional phone calls and emails, and will report back to Public Works Committee on June 16th with a summary report and recommendations on how to proceed from here."

The deadline for public comments for inclusion in the next report to Public Works Committee is May 20th, 2008, although staff will continue to receive formal comments via email, phone and mail, and there will be additional opportunities to comment through mailings, workshops and public meetings to be arranged in the future.

Rapid Transit Contact Information:

Web: www.hamilton.ca/rapid-transit
Email: [email protected]
PH: 905-546-2424, ext. 1473

The Rapid Transit Feasibility Study reviewed constraints and opportunities for both bus rapid transit (BRT) and light rail transit (LRT) along the corridors outlined in the Transportation Master Plan. The Study indicates that both options are feasible in Hamilton and will need to be explored further through an extensive public consultation process to determine how best to provide rapid transit service in Hamilton.

Two rapid transit routes were investigated by the Study:

* The A-Line - James/Upper James from the Hamilton Airport to the Waterfront
* The B-Line - Main/King from University Plaza to Eastgate Square

-30-

Media contact:
Jill Stephen, P. Eng
Manager, Strategic Planning
Public Works Department
City of Hamilton
905-546-2424, ext. 6392

[raisethehammer]

wahooo!!! One more step forward!!
68%-7% in favour of LRT. Awesome!!

[mishap]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

the only area that needs shared lanes is Delta to Parkdale area. East of Red Hill the road allowance is huge....it's bigger than the 5-lane section downtown.

I think they only need shared lanes between the Delta and the Queenston Traffic Circle, provided the line stays on Main St. While it is likely the line will stay on Main, they need to at least consider some alternative corridor options for this stretch.

East of the circle, Queenston Rd is 5 lanes wide. It would be tight just east of Parkdale, but you could take a bit from each side to get an LRT line down the middle. If you have to cheat a little on lane widths, so be it.

Just west of Red Hill, that retaining wall might have to be moved back a little, but east of Red Hill is absolutely wide enough. As for the valley itself, you can take two lanes from the overpass for the LRT line.

What was really discouraging was the consultant's argument against it. I was basically told that the circle to Eastgate was such a short stretch that it wasn't worth having dedicated lanes. That boggled the mind. Eastgate to Red Hill (will fit LRT RoW) is about one mile. Red Hill to the circle (may fit LRT RoW) is also one mile. So likely two miles of decent LRT corridor. That leaves the circle to the Delta (will not fit LRT RoW), about one-and-a-quarter miles. So a shorter stretch of roadway makes the longer stretch of roadway useless? I would argue that it might be worth finding ways to fix the problem segment.

Maybe they should just build the mixed-traffic segment on Main St for now, then require any future developments to be set further back from the current street. As the street is rebuilt, room for a dedicated Right-of-way would open up. If LRT is the economic stimulus we're told it is, the market would pretty much fix the issue for us.

[SteelTown]

Good news about 68% supporting LRT. Now it's all up to city council.