Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

This is one city that was definitely planned on a cocktail napkin if planned at all.

The former. It would cost so much now to do properly all the things which should have been done properly to begin with, planning for the future rather than the present, that most of it will never get done. Then again, maybe they've always been planning for that eventuality when transit becomes the transportation of choice in Winnipeg and there's no longer a need for improved road networks?

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

If I've said it once I've said it a mazillion times: Winnipeg city planners ONLY method of traffic management is to install more traffic lights.

Or stop signs. This is a city of stop signs. Best way to improve safety is to slow traffic down with stop signs and to make sure the traffic lights are out of sync. I'm joking, but it seems to be a standard though of city traffic engineers judging by how things are set up.

You know, if proper interchanges aren't in the cards, why not try some bigger traffic circles? They work (when people understand how to use them) for better than traffic lights in most situations. Slows traffic down a little, but moves traffic much better than an intersection with traffic lights. Pretty new concept for Winnipeg, but the little one in Southdale at Beaverhill/Lakewood seems to be working far better than the 4 way stop it replaced. It wouldn't work at Regent/Lagimodiere, but would work well at intersections along Kenaston like Corydon or Grant.

[grumpy old man]

I've seen a high volume traffic circle in Paris handle movement real well. I don't think Winnipeggers are ready for that just yet. Witness some trying to merge and exit when there are merge and exit lanes.

But we do need to think of different methods of managing flow.

[blake10]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

Agreed. 'Cept that intersection was build c/w traffic lights well before Ikea was ever dreamed of. But your point in general? Bang on.

If I've said it once I've said it a mazillion times: Winnipeg city planners ONLY method of traffic management is to install more traffic lights.

Want to improve traffic flow in this city? Take out HALF the traffic lights.

There was always one set of lights there (first at Wilkes, now at Sterling Lyon), but an additional set of lights is going up at Kenaston and Lowson Cres (beside Ikea) in addition to two new sets of lights on Sterling Lyon. I predict the area will be a total disaster. I wonder when construction starts on the road-widening. Kenaston/McGillivray was a mess this summer and I expect this will be even worse.

They should have built an interchange (2 really) at the same time they built the underpass. In other cities, Ikea is usually placed near major freeway interchanges. Here it will be placed beside the city's largest traffic light (plan is for 3 thru lanes on Kenaston, 2 thru lanes on Sterling Lyon, 2 left turn lanes from SB Kenaston and WB Sterling Lyon, 3 left turn lanes from NB Kenaston and EB Sterling Lyon AND, not initially but eventually, 2 right turn lanes (not sure if this is just on 2 sides or all 4) with, of course, additional lights to replace the yields.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by blake10

They should have built an interchange (2 really) at the same time they built the underpass. In other cities, Ikea is usually placed near major freeway interchanges. Here it will be placed beside the city's largest traffic light (plan is for 3 thru lanes on Kenaston, 2 thru lanes on Sterling Lyon, 2 left turn lanes from SB Kenaston and WB Sterling Lyon, 3 left turn lanes from NB Kenaston and EB Sterling Lyon AND, not initially but eventually, 2 right turn lanes (not sure if this is just on 2 sides or all 4) with, of course, additional lights to replace the yields.

What they are going to end up with here is exactly what they have now at Regent & Lag, a massive intersection with fairly high speeds.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

I've seen a high volume traffic circle in Paris handle movement real well. I don't think Winnipeggers are ready for that just yet. Witness some trying to merge and exit when there are merge and exit lanes.

It occurred to me while killing a minute after turning from northbound Lakewood onto eastbound Beaverhill that a larger traffic circle might not work here for the simple reason that Winnipegers don't have a clue how to use that stick on the side of their steering column which controls the turn signals, and using turn signals is a vital part of what makes a traffic circle work!

That said, I dare the city to try a big traffic circle at one problem intersection (I like Grant/Kenaston), along with a big educational push on how to use a traffic circle.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Biff

What they are going to end up with here is exactly what they have now at Regent & Lag, a massive intersection with fairly high speeds.

The whole stretch of Kenaston from Sterling Lyon to Scurfield is a planning disaster already. Why not take a bad intersection and make it worse? And add more traffic lights. That's the way we do things in Winnipeg.

[blake10]

Originally Posted by Biff

What they are going to end up with here is exactly what they have now at Regent & Lag, a massive intersection with fairly high speeds.

Well, yes...but that describes most intersections on Kenaston and Bishop Grandin already. This one will just be bigger!

BTW- Sterling Lyon must have 3 lanes at some point or 3 left-turn lanes wouldn't work so well...I'll have to go back and take another look at the plans.

[blake10]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

The whole stretch of Kenaston from Sterling Lyon to Scurfield is a planning disaster already. Why not take a bad intersection and make it worse? And add more traffic lights. That's the way we do things in Winnipeg.

Can you imagine when Kenaston is eventually extended and people start flocking into Waverley West? I drive that stretch almost daily and just say to myself "what in the world were they thinking". The worst part is that it's only going to get worse (there are even plans now for retail development and even a hotel at the new Tim Hortons (?) going up at the entrance to the Tuxedo Business Park) and they have built right up to the edge of the road so future improvements or grade-separations are practically impossible.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by blake10

BTW- Sterling Lyon must have 3 lanes at some point or 3 left-turn lanes wouldn't work so well...I'll have to go back and take another look at the plans.

If the traffic light timing is the same, they'll need those 3 lanes and the traffic will still back up. Don't know if you've ever made that turn but it seems like forever before you get your turning light, never mind the 10 second green for through traffic on Sterling Lyon.

Sterling Lyon doesn't have the traffic volume to justify an interchange at Kenaston. Really, the road is totally under-utilized. I swear the old Wilkes alignment carried more traffic, or at least seemed to. Once Ikea is in place and Sterling Lyon is connected to Taylor it could definitely be justified though, but we don't plan our roads for the future here in Winnipeg, only for the present, or in some cases, the past.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by blake10

Can you imagine when Kenaston is eventually extended and people start flocking into Waverley West?

I'd rather not. All kinds of infill areas could have been developed before Waverly West, with opportunities to improve the infrastructure in those areas at the same time.

[0773|=\]

Back in Winnipeg everybody... just started reading some of this thread, having driven cross-town earlier this afternoon (via Kenaston/Bishop Grandin). I dunno... i just wonder when this city is going to discover that when you build interchanges ONE AFTER ANOTHER, you'll actually end up with a HIGH-SPEED ROUTE that moves traffic more quickly. Most of you probably know that i live in Edmonton, and while both of these cities are very similar in some respects, this is one area where Edmonton has excelled and Winnipeg has not. I hope that Winnipeg improves in its transportation planning, because I really love this town, I just think that it needs to think outside their current "box" on occasion.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by 0773|=\

Back in Winnipeg everybody... just started reading some of this thread, having driven cross-town earlier this afternoon (via Kenaston/Bishop Grandin). I dunno... i just wonder when this city is going to discover that when you build interchanges ONE AFTER ANOTHER, you'll actually end up with a HIGH-SPEED ROUTE that moves traffic more quickly. Most of you probably know that i live in Edmonton, and while both of these cities are very similar in some respects, this is one area where Edmonton has excelled and Winnipeg has not. I hope that Winnipeg improves in its transportation planning, because I really love this town, I just think that it needs to think outside their current "box" on occasion.

I really couldn't agree with you more.... when it comes to efficient roadways the city has fallen far behind. Adding interchanges along route 90 and Bishop Grandin would be a great addition.

[JayM]

I have a few suggestions for when it comes to building streets/highways or roadways in general.

Theres a great site that provides 3d models of roadway http://www.turbosquid.com they can just piece it all together in any modeling program its so easy!

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Clover Highway turnabout for cars, cityscapes, and architectural renderings. Views rendered with Vray Plugin for Max. Vray and vray materials not provided. Default Max materials substituted.
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Just less than 1SQ. Mile of city blocks complete with highway and 40 signs!
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*note this is totally funny to me and sad! lol

[newflyer]

I was very happy to hear that the funding for the extension of route 90 to the perimetre is now in place.. and it will include 2 new interchanges. This will lead to the future link of route 90 to Highway 75 south of the city as a truck transport bypass and express link to the airport/Centre Port. This is just one more step to fulfilling the mandate of Centre Port and the maturing of the city to one which takes its transportation needs more seriously.

Hopefully this will lead to other interchange announcements in the coming years along various major routes.

[YWG - YOW - YUL]

According to CJOB 68's website, there will only be one grade-separation initially.

"Swandel says the upgrades do not account for building an overpass/underpass at the intersection of Kenaston and the Perimeter, which will be controlled by traffic lights. He says the Province is looking at an interchange there as a future project"

http://www.cjob.com/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1139427

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by YWG - YOW - YUL

According to CJOB 68's website, there will only be one grade-separation initially.

"Swandel says the upgrades do not account for building an overpass/underpass at the intersection of Kenaston and the Perimeter, which will be controlled by traffic lights. He says the Province is looking at an interchange there as a future project"

http://www.cjob.com/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1139427

That does it. I'm moving back to Alberta once the economy gets a little better. This city is hopeless!

[Mininari]

Is any of this federal money actually going anywhere?
It seems like the entire summer went by, and not much really happened around the city... than what was already planned.

[Spocket]

No , what you mean is that since there was no summer , no summer-y things happened. Ha ha.

[jmt18325]

I've already explained why there will only be one grade separation at first. It's because they're waiting to build the St. Norbert bypass so that it can all be connected at once. Seriously, there isn't money for all of our wishes and dreams, and if that's all it takes to cause you to abandon this city, then maybe you should just go? Unlike Alberta, it seems that Manitoba is being relatively fiscally prudent, and that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.