The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread - Page 13

ErickMontreal · #**241** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 5:59 PM**

Check it out in projects section

Rocca project update.

MTL Lucas · #**242** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

I agree in principal, I just feel like Saint John is in imminent danger of losing its identity, and I would hate to see that happen. Obviously we should be helping get low income people out of poverty, but sometimes new developments have a tendency of running those people over and driving them out, rather than improving their situations.

By the same token, just because there are people who are able to afford those "sophisticated" things, doesn't mean we should force the lower cost alternatives out of the way. We need to have both ideally, not an exclusivity of one or the other.

Personally I'm excited about Saint John's future, which is why I have stayed here. I just want to see it done right, and maintain true to Saint John's heritage, not merely re-creating a smaller version of Halifax.

I haven't seen any rendering or drawings of the Rocca building either, I'm very curious to see what it will look like, I think it could be a huge addition to the Uptown.

I very much agree that Saint John, especially Uptown, should not become a boutique city of overpriced things for some sort of contrived elite.

I do, however, see Martini bars, cafés and shops in major urban centres all over the world. I think that one can perceive this as homogenization, but I also see it as simply offering amenities befitting a city of a certain size. Despite having many martini bars, theatres, clubs and other frothy, snobby developments Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver couldn´t be any more different (I know I am cheating with that comparison but I think I get the point across).

I would like Saint John to retain its character - which I think can be translated into Martini bars or cafés. But also I would like Saint John to be comfortable not just with its working class image but also the urban/middle and upper class parts of itself. Saint John has faced many problems with suburban flight and difficulty attracting international immigrants - I think a few cafés, nightclubs, dinner theatres and boutiques can be balanced within an affordable and diverse neighbourhood without pretense or losing character (a la Plateau) and that this can help make the city more conventionally appealing, albeit with its unique character fully intact.

Not to mention that a livelier and more diverse Uptown would reinforce Saint John´s principle strength against its competitors - a very beautiful central city which could become one of the most vibrant in the country.

ErickMontreal · #**243** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTL Lucas

I very much agree that Saint John, especially Uptown, should not become a boutique city of overpriced things for some sort of contrived elite.

I do, however, see Martini bars, cafés and shops in major urban centres all over the world. I think that one can perceive this as homogenization, but I also see it as simply offering amenities befitting a city of a certain size. Despite having many martini bars, theatres, clubs and other frothy, snobby developments Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver couldn´t be any more different (I know I am cheating with that comparison but I think I get the point across).

I would like Saint John to retain its character - which I think can be translated into Martini bars or cafés. But also I would like Saint John to be comfortable not just with its working class image but also the urban/middle and upper class parts of itself. Saint John has faced many problems with suburban flight and difficulty attracting international immigrants - I think a few cafés, nightclubs, dinner theatres and boutiques can be balanced within an affordable and diverse neighbourhood without pretense or losing character (a la Plateau) and that this can help make the city more conventionally appealing, albeit with its unique character fully intact.

Not to mention that a livelier and more diverse Uptown would reinforce Saint John´s principle strength against its competitors - a very beautiful central city which could become one of the most vibrant in the country.

ErickMontreal · #**244** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 6:29 PM**

Argentinian engineers to recieve nuclear training in Saint John

February 22, 2007 - 10:26 am
By: Ryan MacLeod News 88-9 staff

SAINT JOHN, N.B.- Saint John is now in the business of exporting nuclear technology. Atomic Energy of Canada Limited employees in the city will start teaching engineers from Argentina how to retube a Candu-6 nuclear reactor. New Brunswick Premier Shawn Graham says this will enhance the province's image as a nuclear powerhouse." It's an important step for the continuation of the development of the nuclear program here in New Brunswick", says Graham. " It positions New Brunswick as a leader in refurbishment technology and at the same time it helps develop our government's goal of self sufficiency". Tthe training will take place at the Point Lepreau nuclear power plant until 2009.

kwajo · #**245** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 6:31 PM**

I understand entirely MTL Lucas, I just wanted to express my concerns that things can easily get out of hand. I've talked with a few people who desire that full homogenization, and I try to remind them that it is important to balance our acceptance of contemporary urbanity with our own flavour.

The image thing is one of the biggest problems facing Saint John. It's perfectly fine to be self-effacing about your city, and we all do that, but we rarely stand up for yourselves when people from other cities downplay SJ. This is one area Moncton showed leadership in. Even when they weren't as big a city as Saint John, they began projecting the image they not only were they growing, but that they would pass SJ someday. Whether it was true or not, that made everyone stand up and take notice of the city, and businesses were drawn in by that optimism. I think this is something SJ should think about borrowing a page from. Personally I think a good way to start would be some sort of keystone architectural project. If the Irvings want a new headquarters, they should bring in some big name architect to design it and help create a new legacy of design in the city. Irving has been working a lot with Repsol lately, and that company is currently working on a tower in Argentina by Cesar Pelli - maybe they should bring him to Saint John

PersonPlaceorThing · #**246** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

Irving has been working a lot with Repsol lately, and that company is currently working on a tower in Argentina by Cesar Pelli - maybe they should being him to Saint John

A distinctive mid-rise would be great.

Another Irving architectural opportunity would be for Commercial Properties Ltd. to take the Ming’s space at CenterBeam Place and replace it with an atrium.

ErickMontreal · #**247** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

A distinctive mid-rise would be great.

Another Irving architectural opportunity would be for Commercial Properties Ltd. to take the Ming’s space at CenterBeam Place and replace it with an atrium.

Agree. Something modern between 12 and 15 stories

kwajo · #**248** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:22 PM**

Has anyone else heard this rumor about Exxon Mobil moving 2000 jobs to the city (some from Toronto, some from Houston) and building new offices to house them? I'm skeptical that it is true, but that would guarantee a modern mid-rise to be sure.

ErickMontreal · #**249** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

Has anyone else heard this rumor about Exxon Mobil moving 2000 jobs to the city (some from Toronto, some from Houston) and building new offices to house them? I'm skeptical that it is true, but that would guarantee a modern mid-rise to be sure.

Exxon mobil in SJ?

Imperial oil already has HQ in Calgary but what will be the purpose behind this move?

kwajo · #**250** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:41 PM**

I don't know it doesn't make any sense to me. I was talking to this girl I know who works for them and that's what she was claiming (the 2000 jobs part), but I'll assume she didn't know what she was talking about.

It's probably another one of those things that'll never work out for Saint John, like that IMAX theatre we were supposed to get

ErickMontreal · #**251** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

I don't know it doesn't make any sense to me. I was talking to this girl I know who works for them and that's what she was claiming (the 2000 jobs part), but I'll assume she didn't know what she was talking about.

It's probably another one of those things that'll never work out for Saint John, like that IMAX theatre we were supposed to get

Graham has a privileged relationship with Franck "Bay Street"Mckenna, i will not be surprised if this kind of things happen.

someone123 · #**252** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 7:59 PM**

Well, there is a tradeoff between poverty and the kind of homogenization mentioned in this thread.

I agree that it's good to maintain local distinctiveness but by the same token many parts of the region tend to give up major opportunities to protect something that is bound to disappear anyway.

Saint John has perhaps the fourth or fifth nicest collection of historic buildings in Canada and should get tons of tourists. It is also dirt cheap and should appeal to creative types throughout the Northeast, but nobody knows it exists.

To see the difference that this business would make you just have to look at Portland, which is very similar to Saint John.

Fighting to remain a "real city" while industry slowly leaves and the town falls apart anyway is not a sound plan. No industrial town in the Maritimes is doing well right now (in fact, outside of Alberta I'm not sure there's much industry period that is doing well), and most of the places that rely on white collar jobs and tourism are fine.

ErickMontreal · #**253** Posted **Feb 22, 2007, 8:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, there is a tradeoff between poverty and the kind of homogenization mentioned in this thread.

I agree that it's good to maintain local distinctiveness but by the same token many parts of the region tend to give up major opportunities to protect something that is bound to disappear anyway.

Saint John has perhaps the fourth or fifth nicest collection of historic buildings in Canada and should get tons of tourists. It is also dirt cheap and should appeal to creative types throughout the Northeast, but nobody knows it exists.

To see the difference that this business would make you just have to look at Portland, which is very similar to Saint John.

Fighting to remain a "real city" while industry slowly leaves and the town falls apart anyway is not a sound plan. No industrial town in the Maritimes is doing well right now (in fact, outside of Alberta I'm not sure there's much industry period that is doing well), and most of the places that rely on white collar jobs and tourism are fine.

IT and Call center sector became increasingly important but nobody outside SJ talks about that. Like Kwajo said ,Saint John facing a huge image problem within New-Brunswick, they collapse to attract peoples from rural NB. Do not forget, Lord and Mckenna have done nothing for Saint John, they focused Moncton, they win their bids, the city will overcome SJ.

In my mind the next five years are the last call for Saint John. They need to get real all the projects on the table.

Smevo · #**254** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 2:44 AM**

Now this is more like it...

As long as the Irving's are a major player in Saint John, it will never lose that industrial feel, especially within the people of Saint John. It is possible for cities to progress and become a homogeneous mix of upper, middle, working, and lower classes even with keeping a small industrial town feel. You can have upscale boutiques and coffee shops next to those that appeal to the poorer population, when that happens, it becomes just a personal preference as far as where the wealthier people decide to shop and get their coffees or cappucinos.

someone123 - not postiive but how long would it take if you took the ferry? They definitely need the business assuming they're still going to be able to run in the first place (haven't really been paying attention to what's been going on with that).

nero1979 · #**255** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 2:28 PM**

Hello again, Saint John is an industrial city and in my mind always will be, but what has it done to curb that perception. Everybody I talk to (outside Saint John) refer to Saint John as "The John" or "Stink Town", even people in KV probably feel that way. What I feel Saint John needs to do is re-invent itself as not just the industrial capitol of the Maritimes, but as a tourist attraction and a good place to do business. What they need to do is promote itself as fun place to come to. I always see signs/billboards in SJ that have "Go Moncton" or "Casino Nova Scotia" etc., I was just in Halifax at the casino and shopping, and even driving around the city I do not recall any promotion/advertising by SJ. I feel SJ needs to look into a full casino, not just a racino possibly on the Lantic Sugar site. I feel Rockwood Park needs to be overhauled, like something Moncton has done with Magnetic Hill. I know lots of projects are coming like the police station, justice building, east/west box store developments and the coast guard site (maybe). But in my mind I feel SJ does not do enough to promote itself as a wonderful city. Also, I read last night on a website that "Partridge Island" saw over 3 million immigrants come through that little island. How many people outside this city know about it? I did not even know about the 3 million people!!! Everybody knows about Pier 21 in Halifax!!!

cheers

kwajo · #**256** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 2:52 PM**

Yeah Saint John has a ridiculous amount of history that nobody knows about. I am a historian and frankly the stories about SJ put the rest of the Maritimes to shame. Even Halifax can't match some of the really interesting things that have taken place or been built in Saint John. Over a dozen forts in different locations going back 450 years (some of which you can still see remnants of), Civil wars between French trading magnates, 3rd largest shipbuilding center in the world at one point, battles during the American revolution, the american civil war, Partridge Island, Privateer wars, pirates (including Captain Kidd, and many others), 18th and 19th century mining, very rich Native history, railways, industrial development, invention of very important technologies, countless North American firsts such as police forces, museums, etc., World War participations, Boer War legends, the Great Fire, brilliant architecture, myths, ghost stories, the list goes on and on. I mean Saint John was a critical location in North America for well over a century before Halifax was even founded, yet everyone thinks of Halifax as the one rich in history.

As far the the Stink part, I think Saint John will benefit immensely from Harbour Cleanup, which should be completed around 2010-11 and will make the harbour and Marsh Creek not only look better, but smell much better as well

someone123 · #**257** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 6:27 PM**

I mean Saint John was a critical location in North America for well over a century before Halifax was even founded, yet everyone thinks of Halifax as the one rich in history.

Uhh..

The Saint John area was a minor outpost at best before the modern city was founded. Virtually nobody lived in what is now New Brunswick so the area's strategic value was limited.

The Saint John area was initially settled in the early 1600s, but that small group found the area inhospitable and quickly relocated to what is now Annapolis Royal.

As for Halifax, it has been larger and more prominent than Saint John for most of its history. Many interesting things did take place in Saint John but that does not mean that similar and perhaps more important events were not taking place elsewhere. It is also extremely easy to take minor historical events and spin them to sound much more dramatic than they really were. At best the two cities are roughly comparable, but that is fairly generous.

ErickMontreal · #**258** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

I mean Saint John was a critical location in North America for well over a century before Halifax was even founded, yet everyone thinks of Halifax as the one rich in history.

The Saint John area was initially settled in the early 1600s, but that small group found the area inhospitable and quickly relocated to what is now Annapolis Royal.

I think it was the french collinies first.

nero1979 · #**259** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 7:14 PM**

I was not trying to cause a conflict of interest between Halifax and Saint John history, just saying that "Partridge Island" should be turned into something like they did with "Pier 21" rejuvenate the area into a museum, so people can understand and know about it.

cheers

ErickMontreal · #**260** Posted **Feb 23, 2007, 9:27 PM**

Activist predicts housing shortage

February 23, 2007 - 1:35 pm
By: Graham Brown -News 88-9 Staff

SAINT JOHN, NB - A housing crunch is on the way for the greater Saint John area.

Kurt Peacock of Vibrant Communities, an anti-poverty organization, told our newsroom that with five thousand workers needed by 2009 for construction of the proposed second oil refinery it will cause a disruption in the market.

He said the latest official figures show there are only 600 units available.

"Before any new units are constructed we would really like to see the community rehabilitate some of its older streets," said Peacock.

Peacock said the time to start preparing is now.