NEW YORK | 175 Park Avenue (Grand Hyatt) | 1,575 FT | 86 FLOORS

[mrnyc]

good grief, if there is anyplace around midtown where a supertall would not bother literally anybody, its here.

[Zapatan]

Let's hope. How tall is mega-tall? I thought that it was over 1,600'.

I think mega tall is 1650 feet?

In any event, isn't the height pretty set in stone?

According to the CTBUH a Megatall is 600 meters or beyond (which is 1968 feet).

I highly doubt anything of that caliber will rise with 2MSF but hopefully something in the 450 - 500 meter range? It would still be a beast.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

According to the CTBUH a Megatall is 600 meters or beyond (which is 1968 feet).

I highly doubt anything of that caliber will rise with 2MSF but hopefully something in the 450 - 500 meter range? It would still be a beast.

Tower Fifth, at about 1,550 ft would be about 1 msf, so anything is possible. But it all depends on design. I expect something taller than 1 Vanderbilt, and possibly tallest in Midtown. We know Cuomo was pushing to get involved here, which has me believe it will be something that will stand out, another "legacy" project. Just building another 1 Vanderbilt won't do it.

The two things I look forward to seeing most is how well this tower plays off the Chrysler, and how well it transitions at the street level, which is somewhat complicated. There are issues with public plazas - which would be inappropriate here. This site is surrounded on all sides by landmarks, and there is the GCT streetwall on 2 sides. Also, there's the oppurtunity here to do what was done with 1 Vanderbilt, making GCT more visible. A lot of issues to work out.

DECEMBER 31, 2019







JANUARY 28, 2020

[Zapatan]

Tower Fifth, at about 1,550 ft would be about 1 msf, so anything is possible. But it all depends on design. I expect something taller than 1 Vanderbilt, and possibly tallest in Midtown. We know Cuomo was pushing to get involved here, which has me believe it will be something that will stand out, another "legacy" project. Just building another 1 Vanderbilt won't do it.

The two things I look forward to seeing most is how well this tower plays off the Chrysler, and how well it transitions at the street level, which is somewhat complicated. There are issues with public plazas - which would be inappropriate here. This site is surrounded on all sides by landmarks, and there is the GCT streetwall on 2 sides. Also, there's the oppurtunity here to do what was done with 1 Vanderbilt, making GCT more visible. A lot of issues to work out.

Didn't realize Tower Fifth was so small in floorspace, considering 1WTC is over 3MSF and 30 Hudson Yards is 2.6 ish.

The thought of Tower Fifth being built as well as a cluster of 1,400-1,500 foot buildings next to it is pretty mind-blowing.

[JMKeynes]

I hope that something very tall rises at the full-block Manhattan Hotel site in Times Square which Al-Faisal owns. The Qatari's have the money, and they can build something which has Qatari tourist info, etc.

[SkyHigher]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I hope that something very tall rises at the full-block Manhattan Hotel site in Times Square which Al-Faisal owns. The Qatari's have the money, and they can build something which has Qatari tourist info, etc.

Yeh hoping it's the tallest in the city 1700ft+ if anywhere why not Times Square?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I hope that something very tall rises at the full-block Manhattan Hotel site in Times Square which Al-Faisal owns. The Qatari's have the money, and they can build something which has Qatari tourist info, etc.

Crains NY had earlier reported that the Qatari-owned site would be a 1,400 ft. residential-hotel tower.

But that was a few years ago.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Didn't realize Tower Fifth was so small in floorspace, considering 1WTC is over 3MSF and 30 Hudson Yards is 2.6 ish.

The thought of Tower Fifth being built as well as a cluster of 1,400-1,500 foot buildings next to it is pretty mind-blowing.

Height is very different from size. Consider the 3.6 msf 55 Water St is only 687 ft. It's a massive building. The MetLife (PanAm) is well over 3 msf also, but just 808 ft. Height always depends on the allocation of space, or basically floor size, followed by the height of those floors. One Vanderbilt is a good example of that, with just 1.6 gsf of space.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Height is very different from size. Consider the 3.6 msf 55 Water St is only 687 ft. It's a massive building. The MetLife (PanAm) is well over 3 msf also, but just 808 ft. Height always depends on the allocation of space, or basically floor size, followed by the height of those floors. One Vanderbilt is a good example of that, with just 1.6 gsf of space.

I know, but Tower Fifth looks huge and has a high floor count, that's why I'm surprised. Higher than the WTC or Hudson Yards Tower (since those buildings skip floors). One Vanderbilt has an extremely low floor count.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

I know, but Tower Fifth looks huge and has a high floor count, that's why I'm surprised. Higher than the WTC or Hudson Yards Tower (since those buildings skip floors). One Vanderbilt has an extremely low floor count.

Actual floor count and designated floor counts are different things.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Actual floor count and designated floor counts are different things.

I know, I was referring to actual floor counts. I'm assuming Tower Fifth has 96 real floors given its immense height.

1WTC has 94, 30HY has 73 and One Vanderbilt has under 60. The higher the floor count the more square footage obviously.

Tower Fifth looks about as wide as 1WTC and is 200 feet taller with about the same about of floors. According to Gensler's website its 1.3 MSF but still barely a third of 1WTC. And half of 30HY.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

I know, I was referring to actual floor counts. I'm assuming Tower Fifth has 96 real floors given its immense height.

1WTC has 94, 30HY has 73 and One Vanderbilt has under 60. The higher the floor count the more square footage obviously.

Again, not necessarily. The Freedom Tower sits on top of a base, or pedestal. Tower Fifth will sit on top of 3 pedestals. You could have a squat building with low floor count, and a very tall tower with a lot of floors, but not very large floors. Likewise, you could have a tower with a lower number of floor, but very high ceiling heights. The bottom line is, it's all dependent on the design. Each individual tower is different, and we can't just assume. Certain characteristics play a part into estimating what a probability of height will be, including lot size, type of building, where the building is being built, and the tenant the building is being built for. All signs point to up for this one, and I can't wait to start getting some details.

[NYguy]

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

[Visionist]

Amazing how simple the station looked without the Pan Am building.

[NYguy]

A view of the terminal before the Commodore Hotel (Grand Hyatt) was built...



https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/n...ars-later.html



An earlier version of GCT...







Terminal City




http://patrizioradaelli.blogspot.com...l-nyc-100.html

[NYguy]

[JMKeynes]

So it appears that this POS is closing early! That’s one good thing to happen here. Hopefully, the Park Lane will close too.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

So it appears that this POS is closing early! That’s one good thing to happen here. Hopefully, the Park Lane will close too.

That means they won't reopen or start taking reservations until June 1st. How long it will remain open after that is still unclear.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

That means they won't reopen or start taking reservations until June 1st. How long it will remain open after that is still unclear.

The sooner it comes down, the better.

[NYguy]

Some additional views to contemplate what should rise here...



https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1-Va...k-NY/18348220/