AB Highway Construction

[milomilo]

Once you get past banff the traffic dies off markedly, and given they built the wildlife overpasses with only 2 lanes in each direction I think Parks are confident and committed to essentially never having more capacity than that, which seems a sensible assumption.

In my experience whenever there is a delay it's less due to lack of capacity and more because of some disturbance - construction, weather, or someone deciding to euthanize themself. I think we'd be far smarter to build better public transit rather than make congestion in the mountains worse.

[Dengler Avenue]

That makes sense. Be it bus or train, let's not turn this into Alberta's version of Malahat.

[milomilo]

That said, 3 laning to 22 I wouldn't be complaining about. The congestion coming out of the city seems mainly to be a shuffle of people overtaking each other until everyone is up to speed.

[craner]

Originally Posted by lubicon

All these plus three laning the TCH from Calgary to Banff park gates. They should do it at least as far as Hwy #22 at a minimum (currently three lanign to Old Banff Coach Road). Also a Strathmore bypass.

This project plus the twinning east of Taber smells like the UPC playing to their base. I can understand the Hwy 3 work, the #11 project is a head scratcher.

Yes, totally agree. In fact I posted the same things in another thread

[Mazrim]

I agree that they should be cautious about adding extra lanes too far into the mountains. I don't know how the volumes look over the weekends during the summer personally, but is it confined to just a few hours leaving Calgary on Fridays and coming back on Sundays? What's the rest of the weekdays look like during the summer? I assume fairly easy going without much congestion.

So looking down the road, we're getting 4 kilometers of new 6-lane Trans Canada in a couple years up to Old Banff Coach Road, and then hopefully there will be a push in the near future to do the next 12 kilometers to Highway 22. Like Milo said, it takes forever for people to get up to speed in that stretch because of congestion, so the extra lanes would help a ton.

The next logical step would be from Highway 22 to Highway 40, but that's 42 kilometers which is a lot. I suppose one small saving grace is that Scott Lake Hill is already 5 lanes so adding only one more wouldn't be too hard. You could stop 6 laning at earlier points but there's no drop-off in traffic volumes at places like Morley.

The last stretch would be from Highway 40 to the Harvie Heights interchange in Canmore, which is 33 kilometers. That would be the trickiest and most expensive to do. Thankfully in the really tough spots, they have a pretty wide median they could take advantage of which would let them add lanes without having to do a ton of blasting.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I agree that they should be cautious about adding extra lanes too far into the mountains. I don't know how the volumes look over the weekends during the summer personally, but is it confined to just a few hours leaving Calgary on Fridays and coming back on Sundays? What's the rest of the weekdays look like during the summer? I assume fairly easy going without much congestion.

So looking down the road, we're getting 4 kilometers of new 6-lane Trans Canada in a couple years up to Old Banff Coach Road, and then hopefully there will be a push in the near future to do the next 12 kilometers to Highway 22. Like Milo said, it takes forever for people to get up to speed in that stretch because of congestion, so the extra lanes would help a ton.

The next logical step would be from Highway 22 to Highway 40, but that's 42 kilometers which is a lot. I suppose one small saving grace is that Scott Lake Hill is already 5 lanes so adding only one more wouldn't be too hard. You could stop 6 laning at earlier points but there's no drop-off in traffic volumes at places like Morley.

The last stretch would be from Highway 40 to the Harvie Heights interchange in Canmore, which is 33 kilometers. That would be the trickiest and most expensive to do. Thankfully in the really tough spots, they have a pretty wide median they could take advantage of which would let them add lanes without having to do a ton of blasting.

Based on my small sample size it is nearly as bad eastbound on weekdays as on weekends. On the few times we have made day trips during the week this summer and last we have encountered heavy traffic that in some cases came to a dead stop.

[craner]

^Agreed, and it’s busy in the winter too with all the skiers/ boarders. Six lanes to the Banff Park gate is sufficient, no need to continue inside the park. Mazrim’s phasing described above seems logical (more logical than twinning highway 11 to RMH).

[Corndogger]

Alberta bill would open door for road and bridge tolls on new projects

Transportation minister says tolls would only be used for new projects

Michelle Bellefontaine · CBC News · Posted: Nov 03, 2020 2:54 PM MT | Last Updated: 9 hours ago

Alberta Transportation plans to charge user fees to finance a new bridge over the Peace River to replace the aging La Crete ferry in northern Alberta, an act enabled by a new bill introduced in the legislature Tuesday.

Bill 43, the Financing Alberta's Strategic Transportation (FAST) Act, would allow the government to use tolls to finance new roads and bridges.

Transportation Minster Ric McIver said tolls would only apply to new projects, and only in cases where there are other routes people can use for free.

"In other words, as an Albertan, if you never want to pay a toll in your life, you don't have to, period," McIver said.

The minister said the fees would only go toward the cost of the project, not into general government revenue and the tolls would end once the project is paid for.

Opposition Leader Rachel Notley called the bill a "Trojan horse" that would open the province up for more tolls.

She said then-opposition leader Jason Kenney refuted NDP concerns that the UCP was planning toll roads if they won the 2019 election. At the time, he said tolls would only be used for industrial routes.

"What we've got today is a piece of legislation that is not limited to industrial roads," Notley said. "It covers all provincial highways serving any community."

The NDP leader said tolls could be used to finance highway widening projects, such as the Deerfoot Trail through Calgary.

"Jason Kenney promised us that this kind of model, this kind of toll, would not be applied to regular Albertans going about their daily lives," she said. "He told us it would just be for industrial use. That's not what this legislation says."

The $200-million Highway 697 bridge over the Peace River would be the first project financed in this manner if the bill passes.

...

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...idge-1.5788438

[Airboy]

We are going to see more. Expect something for the QE2 widening. Adding a third lane to 16 west to 44.

However not many roads may get the toll, expect a bridge toll.

As for the new bridge mentioned, about fn time. Have driven that route a few times, using the ferry and the ice road. this crossing is long over due. It was talked about back in the Klien years.

[DKaz]

Alberta is being user paid to death compared to BC, yet the income taxes are the same. Blows my mind.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Alberta is being user paid to death compared to BC, yet the income taxes are the same. Blows my mind.

? In what examples?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by milomilo

? In what examples?

I was wondering the same thing.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Airboy

We are going to see more. Expect something for the QE2 widening. Adding a third lane to 16 west to 44.

However not many roads may get the toll, expect a bridge toll.

As for the new bridge mentioned, about fn time. Have driven that route a few times, using the ferry and the ice road. this crossing is long over due. It was talked about back in the Klien years.

I don't see how they could add a toll to additional lanes on Highway 2 unless they were managed lanes and I don't see that working for the entire distance between Edmonton and Calgary. Through Calgary I could see something like that being accepted if done right. I'm talking 4+1, electronic tolls, toll lane ramps, etc.

[Dengler Avenue]

Personally, I think that only completely new alignment should be tollable. I will give some examples.

Completely new alignment:
TCH Medicine Hat Bypass

Current alignment:
Twinning of Crowsnest Highway outside of towns

Anything that falls under the second category should never be tolled, IMO.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Personally, I think that only completely new alignment should be tollable. I will give some examples.

Completely new alignment:
TCH Medicine Hat Bypass

Current alignment:
Twinning of Crowsnest Highway outside of towns

Anything that falls under the second category should never be tolled, IMO.

A TCH bypass from Strathmore to the southern border area of Calgary hooking into 201 would be an ideal candidate in my opinion.

One thing I don't agree with about this plan from the government is ending tolls once the project is paid for. I'd rather rather they keep collecting the tolls so they have the money for upgrades when needed. They also better ensure the money is going into a separate fund that can't be touched. It's a good reason for AB to implement a provincial constitution so citizens can ensure that happens.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

A TCH bypass from Strathmore to the southern border area of Calgary hooking into 201 would be an ideal candidate in my opinion.

One thing I don't agree with about this plan from the government is ending tolls once the project is paid for. I'd rather rather they keep collecting the tolls so they have the money for upgrades when needed. They also better ensure the money is going into a separate fund that can't be touched. It's a good reason for AB to implement a provincial constitution so citizens can ensure that happens.

Edson, Hinton and Lloyd By Passes.
Makes sense to if you don't want to pay the toll you can drive through town and help the local economy.

Maybe this can help finish the By-pass at St Alberta. Make it the 202.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Personally, I think that only completely new alignment should be tollable. I will give some examples.

Completely new alignment:
TCH Medicine Hat Bypass

Current alignment:
Twinning of Crowsnest Highway outside of towns

Originally Posted by Corndogger

A TCH bypass from Strathmore to the southern border area of Calgary hooking into 201 would be an ideal candidate in my opinion.

None of these would be able to charge a toll high enough to justify their cost - people would just take the extra 5 minutes to avoid the toll since there is no traffic on the existing routes. Thus your hundred million - billion dollar highway is a a waste and doesn't reduce the negative externalities of roads enough to justify its cost. I'd support building bypasses, just it makes no sense to toll them - you want to encourage people to use them, not discourage people.

If you need more money for roads, just fucking tax us more. It's pretty simple. If you want to charge the users of road, it's still simple - increase the road user tax (gas tax). No need for legislation and arbitrary charges on those who happen to have roads built for them last.

[lubicon]

New (improved seems more like it, this is an existing partial interchange) on the QE2 at Leduc.

Airdrie get's one, now Leduc does. The pattern repeats. Two new construction zones to put up with for the next couple of years. But needed so we put up with it.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/province...them-1.2700599

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by lubicon

New (improved seems more like it, this is an existing partial interchange) on the QE2 at Leduc.

Airdrie get's one, now Leduc does. The pattern repeats. Two new construction zones to put up with for the next couple of years. But needed so we put up with it.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/province...them-1.2700599

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes the feds to respond to this request. The article indicates that a lot more than just the interchange will get built out of the total $101 million budget.

[s211]

Originally Posted by lubicon

New (improved seems more like it, this is an existing partial interchange) on the QE2 at Leduc.

Airdrie get's one, now Leduc does. The pattern repeats. Two new construction zones to put up with for the next couple of years. But needed so we put up with it.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/province...them-1.2700599

Is that really that necessary? Seems more like a nice to have, rather than a need to have.