NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

NO. There has been no design for any towers yet. That was an old JDS proposal, as we have discussed many times.

Right, but potentially could there be towers of that caliber (height etc.)? And yes now that you mention it I remember discussing the JDS proposal way back but had forgotten since it was a while ago.

[NYguy]

Been out of town, so I'm trying to catch up a bit...but this is big news.




https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...office-complex

Cuomo’s Penn Station Plan Would Fund Fix With Office Complex
Massive addition of space would accelerate shift in Manhattan





By Patrick Clark
July 2, 2020

A New York state plan to redevelop the neighborhood surrounding Penn Station would clear the way for more than 14 million square feet of new offices, a massive addition of space that would accelerate the shift of Manhattan’s core toward the West side.

The project would use new construction on eight sites to fund improvements to the existing Penn Station and create underground tracks and platforms to the south of the transit hub, according to a draft proposal posted online.

Empire State Development, the state’s economic development agency, is seeking authority to override New York City zoning rules to allow for larger buildings than currently permitted. The agency is working with Vornado Realty Trust, a major landowner in the area, the proposal said.

“Governor Cuomo has advanced a bold vision to build New York back stronger than ever,” Empire State Development said in a statement. “The environmental scoping document just released is the first step of a comprehensive public review process that will study all impacts of this project and include the local community in ensuring it achieves these goals.

Vornado didn’t respond to a request for comment.

The project, dubbed the Empire Station Complex, could take 16 years to complete and calls for more than 800,000 square feet of retail space and nearly 1,300 hotel rooms, according to the published documents.

.....But the Penn Station project’s long time horizon will give New York’s economy time to recover, and its West side location puts the proposed development in the middle of an emerging office hub.

The first phase of Hudson Yards, a few blocks west of Penn Station, included more than 8 million square feet of office space. Macy’s Inc., meanwhile, has proposed building a 1.5 million square foot office building atop its nearby flagship store on 34th Street, a block east of the train station.

For its part, Vornado is in the process of converting the former James A. Farley Post Office, across the street from Penn Station, into a massive office building.The company has said it will spend more than $2 billion to redevelop over 5 million square feet of real estate in the area.

The state’s plan would likely require agreements with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and other parties, according to the proposal. The state is holding a virtual session on July 20 to discuss the project.

[NYguy]

Some additional info in the draft...

[NYer34]

14M sq feet of commercial space? 8 new office towers?

With the amount of money sloshing around - federal and state grants, just overall cashflow from the project - the one 'community need' they better fund is preserving St. John the Baptist - the nearly 200-year-old church by Napoleon LeBrun on Site 2 (pretty much where they propose "open space" - demolishing an architectural treasure for ... nothing!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Jo...rch_(Manhattan)

Where are the voices that care about this city's history and architecture? They could easily preserve it instead of pointless 'open space.'

[Crawford]

Finally, after decades of plans, the Penn Station area looks to get fully developed. Fantastic news.

[JMKeynes]

I want to see Site 6 built first. That site is currently horrible.

[NYguy]

The two sites above site 2 together would be more than 6 msf.

[Hudson11]

That equates to the most realistic chance of a megatall in NYC that we've ever seen. Even divided into 2 towers, there could be something crazy like 2M SF vs 4M SF

[NYguy]

I do think that sites 7 and 8 hold slightly more office space than site 2 though. Site 2 includes space inside the new terminal. The combined office totals on both blocks though is a little more than 5 msf, not including mechanical space.

[Thefigman]

I could see 2 going tall with a hotel in it. Maybe office on the bottom of that building and hotel on the top. I imagine there will be at least two chains grabbing some kind of space in this development.

[Sky88]

Well on the Site 2 we could have a tower like Gotham Gateway Spire (Penn Station / MSG) SHOP project - 2,000ft.



While on Site 7 and 8 Vornado could build two towers like these,



or a tower like Foster WTC 2002 project.


http://flatrock.org.nz

[Zapatan]

Wow, that's awesome, I'm assuming they're just placeholders? I hope the final products are taller and more interesting.

[chris08876]

Another Hudson Yards being added on. I believe Phase I and II of HY is something like 20-24 million sq-ft... so 18-20 mil is like adding a mid-sized Midwestern City, right by MSG. No... not Monosodium glutamate, but Madison Square ain't no Garden.

Another one!

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I want to see Site 6 built first. That site is currently horrible.

They need to clean the area up. Its heroin central at the moment, and even prior to the pandemic. The area in and around MSG/Penn has really taken a nose dive in the last year or two.

[SkyHigher]

HY The Edge 'come and see the side of the ESB......whilst you can!'

[Busy Bee]

Heroin central? As compared to where? Main train station in one of world's biggest cities has pushers and peddlers outside... news at 11.

[NYguy]

People, once you dip into politics, I’m just gonna have to delete it, so please don’t.

Yes, the area needs a cleanup, though it’s nothing compared to what it was. And yes, that’s what this redevelopment will do. And please, let’s not start with the “Disneyfication” like people did with Times Square.

[JMKeynes]

It's time to move the worst arena in sports to the Bronx near Yankee Stadium so that Penn can get redeveloped. Even with the new "station" next door, most LIRR commuters will have to travel like rats through that horrible, disgusting warren thanks to the Dolan's monstrosity above the station.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

It's time to move the worst arena in sports to the Bronx near Yankee Stadium so that Penn can get redeveloped. Even with the new "station" next door, most LIRR commuters will have to travel like rats through that horrible, disgusting warren thanks to the Dolan's monstrosity above the station.

That certainly won't happen, for a variety of reasons.


Anyway, this is a draft of the proposal that will finally be refined a little before moving forward, but I expect the governor to push this through. There will be griping from the city and the NIMBYs about "density", but this is exactly where you need density.

You can already see how the borders have evolved slightly...it was extended 2 blocks south on 7th Avenue, and pulled back a little from 6th Avenue on 34th Street. I expected the northern half of the block south of Moynihan to be included eventually.

[Busy Bee]

MSG doesn't need to move far... these notions of relocating to Sunnnyside or Bronx or wherever don't need to be as the solution is obvious: PABT. The PA needs to acquire all the land they need to for a new bus terminal (and maybe explore a two-track MN Hudson Line rush-hour terminal veering from the west side line/Empire connection cut) and then they need to work with the Dolans and the city to put a new MSG on top of the current bus terminal site or a combination of over the old and the new or over the terminal and LT approach spaghetti ramps between 36th and 41st, 9th and 10th aves. There is plenty of space for a new MSG just a few blocks away. A little imagination would go a long long way.