Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I think it's a little important to note that Canada has a significant population of historically dispossessed and oppressed racial groups who to this day do not have the same standard of living as the Canadian average nor do they often receive support from their neighbouring communities. Those racial groups make up a significant percentage of Canadian poverty and drug use.

Japan doesn't have that problem to the same extent (do not look at Ainu poverty rates, Japan made sure there aren't that many )

This is a valid point, but it still doesn’t excuse our approach of allowing open drug use everywhere and lack of rehab centres / hospitals / etc…

Also, while not to the same extent, there is a traditional “under class” in Japan, and just like natives in Canada they have reserve like areas with government housing and affirmative action programs (such as free university). I actually live quite near to one.

And then there are the Korean and Chinese legacy underclass issues.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

This is a valid point, but it still doesn’t excuse our approach of allowing open drug use everywhere and lack of rehab centres / hospitals / etc…

Also, while not to the same extent, there is a traditional “under class” in Japan, and just like natives in Canada they have reserve like areas with government housing and affirmative action programs (such as free university). I actually live quite near to one.

And then there are the Korean and Chinese legacy underclass issues.

Nice to get input from someone who can see the stark difference between two wealthy societies.

The failure of Vancouver/BC/Canada is very apparent when seen through the eyes of visitors, and only some locals are still in denial.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Define illegal drugs now in Canada.

That 1.5% in Japan will include weed.

I think more than 3% of Canadians use weed!!! And mushrooms. Almost everyone I knew in university used them. Most people I still know today in Vancouver are casual users of weed, mushrooms, acid, mdma, etc…

Also lots of common painkillers prescribed in Canada are counted as illegal drugs in Japan.

Not pushing against what you said here and I'm already aware that marijuana is federally prohibited in Japan but does that also apply to extracts?
I was in Nagoya back in June and both me, a friend and two other people I sent the photo to (I might still have it if you want proof) were a bit baffled how a vending machine was selling a CBD-infused drink on the side of the road.

[logan5]

It would be expensive (and I'm willing to pay my share), but open up a 1500 bed (Riverview had 800) mental hospital and start apprehending these people under the mental health act. This would provide much needed care for those who need it, and it would also make Vancouver much less of a destination city for addicts and homeless. The addict/homeless population in Vancouver, one way or another, would decrease drastically as the person would either be hospitalized or go back to the city they came from so as to not face being forced into a hospital.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

The failure of Vancouver/BC/Canada is very apparent when seen through the eyes of visitors, and only some locals are still in denial.

Your confirmation bias is showing again. If we're using random internet anecdotes as official sources, other visitors don't see any failure at all.

Originally Posted by logan5

It would be expensive (and I'm willing to pay my share), but open up a 1500 bed (Riverview had 800) mental hospital and start apprehending these people under the mental health act. This would provide much needed care for those who need it, and it would also make Vancouver much less of a destination city for addicts and homeless. The addict/homeless population in Vancouver, one way or another, would decrease drastically as the person would either be hospitalized or go back to the city they came from so as to not face being forced into a hospital.

That, and get around to building the detox on Clark. Get all the problem cases out of the picture, and provide a way for the junkies to get clean, and then it "just" becomes a matter of more housing.

Won't stop homeless from moving in from the Prairies or the Interior though; as of the 2020 count, roughly 21% of Vancouver's are from outside the metro, and 35% from outside the province.

[MIPS]

Not happening.
We threw away the ability to involuntarily commit members of the public decades ago. Reversing that decision now would trigger a charter crisis and would be buried by the social movements in the courts, if not trigger political upheaval by minority groups caught in the splash damage.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Not happening.
We threw away the ability to involuntarily commit members of the public decades ago. Reversing that decision now would trigger a charter crisis and would be buried by the social movements in the courts, if not trigger political upheaval by minority groups caught in the splash damage.

Once they break the law eg shoplift or vandalize something, then you have options.

[MIPS]

I wish you the best trying to send someone off to the funny farm for shoplifting.
In Canada you cannot force someone to go unless they meet guidelines in which a judge orders they be evaluated and they are found to be mentally unfit, THEN you are legally allowed to involuntarily commit them.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I wish you the best trying to send someone off to the funny farm for shoplifting.
In Canada you cannot force someone to go unless they meet guidelines in which a judge orders they be evaluated and they are found to be mentally unfit, THEN you are legally allowed to involuntarily commit them.

When these people commit crimes, it’s an easy defence to say not criminally responsible due to a mental condition, so a jail term won’t be given, but you have the option of sending them to a mental institution.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

When these people commit crimes, it’s an easy defence to say not criminally responsible due to a mental condition, so a jail term won’t be given, but you have the option of sending them to a mental institution.

From what I've read, that would only generally be true if they pose a threat to their own lives, or somebody else's. Once they've been detained under the Mental Health Act, the decision to keep somebody in an institution is also made by a medical practitioner, so they can be released at any time that they're considered not to be a threat to themselves or anybody else. The possibility they might commit future crimes isn't a consideration. It's a medical call, not a judicial one.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by logan5

When these people commit crimes, it’s an easy defence to say not criminally responsible due to a mental condition, so a jail term won’t be given, but you have the option of sending them to a mental institution.

Is it though? How many cases does this happen in?

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Is it though? How many cases does this happen in?

Less than one percent of cases. The misperception that this is common and “easy” persists among those who haven’t taken the time to verify whether it’s true or not.

Those treated using this defence reoffend at lower rates, showing that the treatment they receive likely benefits both them and society.

“Many NCR accused never experience improvements in their psychiatric condition, and they spend the rest of their lives in detention.”

“It is far more common for an NCR accused who committed a relatively minor offence to spend decades in detention than for an NCR accused who committed a serious violent crime to be released within a few years.“

https://robichaudlaw.ca/ncr-not-criminally-responsible-mental-disorder-canada/

Overall, the punishment model we revert to in our society is less effective than a more rehabilitative model used in places like Scandinavia. Fear-mongering and ignorance prevent us from making progress on these matters.

[Sheba]

Man sentenced to life in prison for North Vancouver stabbings that left 1 dead, 6 injured

A man who fatally stabbed a woman and injured six other people outside a library in North Vancouver, B.C., two years ago was sentenced to life in prison on Thursday.

Yannick Bandaogo, 30, had pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, several charges of attempted murder and one count of aggravated assault in relation to the March 2021 mass stabbing.

...

Second-degree murder carries a mandatory life sentence, with a non-parole period of 10 to 25 years.

Crown and defence lawyers jointly proposed that Bandaogo receive a sentence of life in prison with no chance of parole for 15 years.

...

Not exactly 'catch and release' that some on here would have predicted...

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Man sentenced to life in prison for North Vancouver stabbings that left 1 dead, 6 injured



Not exactly 'catch and release' that some on here would have predicted...

Who would predict that? He didn't steal a bracelet or smack someone with a pipe. He murdered someone in cold blood and seriously injured others. And what a surprise, he was a recent arrival to Vancouver from the ROC.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Man sentenced to life in prison for North Vancouver stabbings that left 1 dead, 6 injured .......
Not exactly 'catch and release' that some on here would have predicted...

Good. I am pleased that there are still some stringent laws in place, especially for heinous crimed such as this.

Originally Posted by whatnext

Who would predict that? He didn't steal a bracelet or smack someone with a pipe. He murdered someone in cold blood and seriously injured others. And what a surprise, he was a recent arrival to Vancouver from the ROC.

ROC. The Republic of Congo (?)

In any event this episode is not only horrific and tragic, but is a sad and sordid testimonial to the quality of life there, and a Canadian immigration system perhaps too lax in some cases. It surprises me that such an individual would pass interviews and not be perceived as unstable by at least one of the immigration employees.

Additionally, his excuse that it was excessive use of crystal meth (which fortunately, had no mitigating effect, nor should it) nor his claims of solitude, depression, mental agitation etc.

It seems a more rigorous method of screening such individuals out is in order, if this at all possible, plus of course investment$$ in more staff, resources for background checks, and other necessities.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Who would predict that? He didn't steal a bracelet or smack someone with a pipe. He murdered someone in cold blood and seriously injured others. And what a surprise, he was a recent arrival to Vancouver from the ROC.

Is ROC a new abbreviation for Quebec I haven't learned yet?

I know you always try your hardest to sneak your typical on brand xenophobia into every conversation, but at least try to be correct. Kindly fuck off.

This man is a clear and present danger to society but this isn't the time for you to preach your hatred, thanks.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And what a surprise, he was a recent arrival to Vancouver from the ROC.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

is a sad and sordid testimonial to... a Canadian immigration system perhaps too lax in some cases.

Please cite your sources.

Bandaogo, a Quebec native

North Vancouver library stabbing: Killer gets life behind bars, no parole for 15 years

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Please cite your sources.

Their sources are the guy is brown so he's not a real Canadian. In other words, the racism from these two is out in the open this time instead of being hidden behind dogwhistles.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Your confirmation bias is showing again. If we're using random internet anecdotes as official sources, other visitors don't see any failure at all.

I suppose you are right since not all visitors get to experience the wonders of DTES or Chinatown.

Quote from Tripadvisor:

Avoid Chinatown!
Review of Vancouver ChinaTown
Reviewed April 30, 2019 via mobile
After visiting the Sun Yat Sen Classical Chinese Gardens, (which is lovely!) my Husband and I accidentally stumbled upon the streets of Vancouver that are overrun by the homeless... the streets I did my research on before coming to Vancouver, but when you have very little means to wifi and maps, you get lost and just sometimes wing it!
If you are heading to Chinatown, go to see the Chinese Gardens and then head straight back to the train station, stray any further than this area and you might find yourself in a confronting situation. Between Carrall Street and Main Street there is an alley way that looks like a sea of homeless people, the mentally unstable and drug abusers... we got as far as this, crossed the street and walked back in the other direction. It’s an absolute shame for Chinatown, the impact this has had and will have on the many business in this part of Vancouver is devastating!

Other wonderful comments from those lucky enough to visit Vancouver's Chinatown or stumbled upon the DTES:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserRevi...-Vancouver_British_Columbia.html#REVIEWS

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Their sources are the guy is brown so he's not a real Canadian. In other words, the racism from these two is out in the open this time instead of being hidden behind dogwhistles.

I stand corrected, but it was not the colour of his skin that tripped me up, it was his name, and the fact that I missed that he was a Quebec native. His name is neither French nor European, and yes, I goofed up.
Nevertheless, calling people out as racist is 'tar-brushing' and also virtue-signalling: speaking as though your values and morals are superior to others'.
Ia this your way of trying to prove that?