Future Canadian Skylines

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

During the day in downtown Toronto, the city has always felt dead to me and isn't even remotely as busy as downtown Vancouver.

You can blame that 100% on PATH and the thing that makes PATH even more urban unfriendly is that they are expanding it to Southcore.

Perhaps in the cold weather months, but once temperatures get above 10 degrees, the streets are absolutely packed with people.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

During the day in downtown Toronto, the city has always felt dead to me and isn't even remotely as busy as downtown Vancouver.

You can blame that 100% on PATH and the thing that makes PATH even more urban unfriendly is that they are expanding it to Southcore.

That may be one of the more ridiculous things ever posted on SSP - considering Yonge & Dundas has an average daily pedestrian count of about 100,000 people. I realize you're trying to make a point but downtown Vancouver is not busier than either downtown Toronto or Montreal. Even in winter when both Toronto and Montreal's underground is jammed with people. What a bizarre thing to say.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ACT7

Even in winter when both Toronto and Montreal's underground is jammed with people.

I agree that downtown Toronto is NOT less busy than downtown Vancouver, but let's keep things real here. We're not Hong Kong or Mumbai. I'd never describe the downtowns of either Toronto or Montreal as 'jammed with people'.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't think Vancouver is. It really couldn't increase much more.

The city is still allowing more development and more is planned, people want to move there. That's what I mean. Restrictions on inner city development, either outright or inadvertent, are really stupid. It's a problem that faces many American cities (lack of funding for inner city schools, lack of public transit, lack of services equal to those in the suburbs, lack of safety, etc)... But back to Vancouver, technically the Downtown isn't only just growing in population, it's also growing in area, with the development of SE False Creek and whatnot. Plus the developments along the Kingsway and Broadway

I just got really excited for my trip next month! So many Van pics to take!

[middeljohn]

The T shape is turning into an H.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

The T shape is turning into an H.

I was thinking more of a U or an O


But to each his own.

[middeljohn]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I was thinking more of a U or an O


But to each his own.

I can see a U, but not an O.

Of all subjects worth debating this ranks pretty low though.

[Chadillaccc]

Agreed! The PATH doesn't negatively effect Downtown Toronto nearly as much as the +15 Network negatively effects Downtown Calgary. However, I'm not sure if I'd rather not have the +15 system, because it serves its purpose very well for the cold 1/3 of the year, and even still, the streets are relatively busy for our size. It just could be a lot busier.

[GreaterMontréal]

Downtown Montréal is 18km² with 320,000+ jobs. 500,000 people travel to downtown Montreal every day. Toronto and Montréal = bustling downtown.

[Klazu]

Anyone know the population densities of Downtown Toronto vs. Montreal vs. Vancouver vs. Calgary?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Anyone know the population densities of Downtown Toronto vs. Montreal vs. Vancouver vs. Calgary?

downtown Montréal, +- 18 000 jobs/km²

with the students living in the downtown core, maybe 5000+ ppkm².

[Denscity]

Downtown Vancouver is also 100 000 people. But quite small in area so quite dense.

[caltrane74]

Toronto is about 125k, but has a large daytime office population.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Toronto is about 125k, but has a large daytime office population.

Downtown Toronto is actually closer to 175K (2011) with a density of about 13,500/sq km.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dkGwrkKq9c...o+downtown.jpg

By contrast, downtown Vancouver has a population of about 55K (2011) and a density of about 11,500/ sq km.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Vancouver

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by ACT7

Downtown Toronto is actually closer to 175K (2011) with a density of about 13,500/sq km.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dkGwrkKq9c...o+downtown.jpg

By contrast, downtown Vancouver has a population of about 55K (2011) and a density of about 11,500/ sq km.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Vancouver

How do yo figure the Shangri-la wasn't included? It would be based on that map. But, regardless, if you include the West End, then the total population is about 100K. However, by that logic, Toronto should include West Queen West and Trinity Bellwoods because those neighbourhoods are as equally walkable to downtown Toronto as the West End is to downtown Vancouver. The entire peninsula should not be considered downtown, but I know that's how a lot of people see it because it's easily definable and contains the largest cluster of highrises in the city.

The reason that the size of the boundaries differ in my previous post is simply because downtown Toronto is larger.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by ACT7

Downtown Toronto is actually closer to 175K (2011) with a density of about 13,500/sq km.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dkGwrkKq9c...o+downtown.jpg

By contrast, downtown Vancouver has a population of about 55K (2011) and a density of about 11,500/ sq km.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Vancouver

Your model of what constitutes Vancouver's downtown versus Toronto's downtown is totally absurd and out of touch with reality.

[LeftCoaster]

Why would one exclude the west end from downtown Vancouver but then include all of what you have for Toronto?

By Your logic downtown Vancouvers tallest building, The Shangri-la isnt even downtown??

You include roughly 13 square kilometers for Toronto but only 3.5 for Vancouver?

Let's at least try to make an honest comparison shall we?

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton has a downtown population of ~13000 now 5701 people/sq km.

[LeftCoaster]

Metro Toronto is ~twice the size of Vancouver, yet you have it's downtown nearly 4 times the area? How is that proportional?

And no shangri-La is on the south side of W.Georgia, which falls off that maps definition of downtown which specifies everything North of Georgia.

I've lived for a long time in both cities, and to say that the west end isn't downtown Vancouver but Bathurst and Harbord is downtown Toronto is just downright baffling.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Metro Toronto is ~twice the size of Vancouver, yet you have it's downtown nearly 4 times the area? How is that proportional?

And no shangri-La is on the south side of W.Georgia, which falls off that maps definition of downtown which specifies everything North of Georgia.

I've lived for a long time in both cities, and to say that the west end isn't downtown Vancouver but Bathurst and Harbord is downtown Toronto is just downright baffling.

I don't agree with that logic at all. The west end may be very well integrated with downtown but that does not make it downtown. Since when are downtown's proportional to the equivalent proportional metro size comparisons? Toronto just happens to have a very large downtown relative to a lot of North American cities.

In any event, the point of my post originally was to refute ssiguy's wild claim that downtown Toronto is dead relative to downtown Vancouver.