[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

It was explained to me again this week that commercial is renting for 18-21 psf in the existing buildings, which is low, and running at a 10% vacancy, which is ok for churn.

But, new commercial needs to be up around 26 psf to pay for the build. So, we have a gap. You need 40% leased at $26psf (or more) to be able to secure financing.

More I talk to real estate and developer guys about downtown, the more it becomes clear, the issue is demand. More supply can't be built unless there is more higher value demand.

The economy went in the crapper in 2008, the promise of insurance from Bermuda and banks and stuff went away, and the economy is just starting to heat up, maybe.

.

I thought i'd take the time to give you some statistics.

The average rate for downtown Class A properties is $18.43 per square foot NET. This does not include operating costs or taxes, which for A class avearge mid $14.00 per foot. (total rent $33.00)

New construction will require NET rents in the $22-$25 range.

For financing the project will require 70% preleasing to qualify, of which the 70% needs to be longer term leases (10 years). There are other ways to build without this requirement, but those are usually extremely risky and only done in a stronger rental market then we are currently experiencing.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I don't think that people are thinking about converting existing commercial space, such as Founders Square, to residential. On the other hand, the Nova Centre is just in the preliminary planning stage and residential has already been proposed as part of the mix along with commercial space by Joe Ramia.

The problem with having mainly commercial (office) space downtown is that office workers go home after work and in many cities the downtown core is dead at night. Toronto has been successful in attracting condo towers in the downtown core and I feel that it helps to make Toronto a more vibrant city, even at night. Having mixed-use towers is an option that is becoming popular in cities across North America. It is a possibility that might make such developments as the International Place viable, otherwise, such developments might never go ahead.

I like the idea of reducing the commercial tax rate downtown and shifting some of the burden to the suburbs.

I like the idea of mixed use. The problem with Halifax losing commercial space downtown is that we may not get it back for a very long time, if at all. Cities like Toronto and Calgary have many/all the corporate head offices so a company can build/lease an entire building. (encana -Bow) The Radisson hotel completely absorbed a commercial building on Hollis St. and that space hasn't come back. There are a few floors in Founders that may be available soon and Dominion Insurance is vacating 4 floors in Purdy's to go to Burnside. Downtown Halifax does well when the office crowd goes home if they go home and don't stay for dinner etc.

[Waye Mason]

I did read that what was formerly dead down town Toronto between Bay and Young, south of Bloor now has 150,000 people living there. It is a trend to be admired, that is for sure.

[Dmajackson]

^I wonder if that area of T-dot is the same size as similar-size Moncton

(rhetorical question btw Moncton is pretty damn large)

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

^I wonder if that area of T-dot is the same size as similar-size Moncton

(rhetorical question btw Moncton is pretty damn large)

Toronto - 3,972.4 people per square km
Moncton - 454.3 per km squared

[sdm]

Centre support below 50%: Poll
An outdoor sports stadium is a bigger need for the region, a survey of HRM residents finds A different poll by Corporate Research Associates in March had convention centre support at 58 per cent


The CityThink survey polled 600 people in HRM from April 13 to 23. It carries a margin of error of four per cent, 19 times out of 20.
Total percentage of people who either disagree or or completely disagree that Halifax needs a new convention centre is 52%

ALY THOMPSON
METRO HALIFAX
Published: May 09, 2011 1:04 a.m.
Last modified: May 09, 2011 7:49 a.m.
Share

A majority of Haligonians say we need a new outdoor sports stadium, a poll reveals.

The same can’t be said for the convention centre.

The CityThink survey, conducted by Marketquest-Omnifacts Research for Metro Halifax and the Greater Halifax Partnership, shows more residents oppose the proposed development of a new downtown convention centre than support it.

Thirty-six per cent of people said they disagree when asked if HRM needs a new, larger, upgraded convention centre, with another 16 per cent completely disagreeing. That compares with 33 per cent who agree and nine per cent who completely agree.

“I’m speculating here, but maybe people see it as more of a business thing. People believe it’s not something that the general public is going to use, like a stadium,” said Craig Wight, senior vice-president of Marketquest-Omnifacts Research.

Fred Morley, executive vice-president of the Greater Halifax Partnership, said support for the proposed centre is reflective of residents’ misunderstanding of the project.

“I don’t think the convention centre and the need for the rejuvenation of the downtown core have connected in people’s head yet,” he said. “The downtown of any city is the showroom of that city. What you see is creating first and lasting impressions.

“This is an opportunity to do that.”

Sixty per cent of residents either agree or completely agree with HRM’s need for an outdoor stadium. Morley said this idea has caught people’s attention because “they can see themselves using it.”

Scott Ferguson, Trade Centre Ltd.’s president and CEO, said Halifax needs the convention centre.

“The convention centre project has been ongoing for a number of years and in my view, there has been a tremendous amount of analysis and research. I’m very optimistic that positive decisions have been made,” he said.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Hogwash...

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Hogwash...

Anecdotally it sounds about right; most people I know are far more eager for a stadium than a CC, and I work in about as pro-urban development an environment as you can get.

Given the long and exhausting ordeal this thing has gone through I'm thinking it might be time to just move on to Plan B or C. It's unfortunate but I'd rather see SOMEthing on that site that stands a reasonable chance of actually being built rather than an all-or-nothing scenario where the only alternative appears to be a pit in the ground.

[beyeas]

I would love to know exactly what the series of questions was that they used in that poll. If they asked a series of questions about funding either a stadium or the CC, of course it would come out that way! They may as well have asked "Would you rather tax money go to something you will use, or something people from outside NS will use", because that is exactly how most people would see it if you link it. Hell, if asked the question "You can only have one or the other, which do you want" I would probably say the stadium too!

[someone123]

Yep, useless poll.

It's also wrong to think that a majority of the public against means that something shouldn't be built. Not every worthwhile piece of infrastructure is going to benefit every last person, and even if it does the beneficiaries are often oblivious.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I would love to know exactly what the series of questions was that they used in that poll. If they asked a series of questions about funding either a stadium or the CC, of course it would come out that way! They may as well have asked "Would you rather tax money go to something you will use, or something people from outside NS will use", because that is exactly how most people would see it if you link it. Hell, if asked the question "You can only have one or the other, which do you want" I would probably say the stadium too!

Exactly... this isn't a trade off between the stadium and CC, in fact, there is actually funding for CCs and not for professional sports stadiums.

Obviously people are going to want a stadium, but this poll is flawed because it paints the picture that somehow the CC will take something away from a stadium proposal which isn't the case at all.

It would be like pitting the library vs. the stadium, the money is coming from different funds.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I would love to know exactly what the series of questions was that they used in that poll. If they asked a series of questions about funding either a stadium or the CC, of course it would come out that way! They may as well have asked "Would you rather tax money go to something you will use, or something people from outside NS will use", because that is exactly how most people would see it if you link it. Hell, if asked the question "You can only have one or the other, which do you want" I would probably say the stadium too!

The question can be seen at this link

The question asked was:

Do you completely agree, agree, disagree or completely disagree with the following statements:

HRM needs a new, larger, upgraded Convention Centre?

The results were:

Completely disagree – 16%
Disagree – 36%
Agree – 33%
Completely agree – 9%
Neither agree nor disagree – 3%
Don’t know – 2%

Halifax needs a larger convention centre since the status quo will result in more convention business lost each year and increasing fewer convention visitors.

It shouldn't be a choice of a stadium versus a convention centre. I think of a stadium as a entertainment/leisure project and a convention centre as a business related project (both business and pleasure are important).

[fenwick16]

There is a short story is in the Halifax Metro today that mentions the new convention centre. Here is the story link and an excerpt below. Although there isn't much meat to the story, it shows that Premier Dexter is pursuing funding for the convention centre (and ship-building contract).

Dexter hopeful for trade centre, shipbuilding bid
Irving contract could mean 4,000 new jobs over next 30 years Premier likens successful ship-building bid to hosting Olympics

JENNIFER TAPLIN
METRO HALIFAX
Published: May 19, 2011 12:32 a.m.
Last modified: May 19, 2011 12:36 a.m.

There’s hope for the two major business deals pending for Halifax, Premier Darrell Dexter told the Chamber of Commerce yesterday.

Both the convention centre and Irving Shipyards’ bid for a federal shipbuilding contract could be major economic drivers for the city.

Dexter said he’s written to Prime Minister Stephen Harper since the federal election two weeks ago, urging him to write a $47-million cheque for the convention centre.
....

[q12]

Nova Scotia premier looks for federal support

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/canada/a...scotia-premier-looks-for-federal-support

Published: May 26, 2011 11:48 a.m.
Last modified: May 26, 2011 12:02 p.m.

HALIFAX - Nova Scotia Premier Darrell Dexter is leading a delegation to Ottawa on Monday to try to push several huge projects forward, including Labrador power, a new convention centre for Halifax and the national shipbuilding strategy.

Dexter will be joined by several local business leaders in meetings with newly minted federal ministers.

The premier says now that the federal election is over they want to know how Ottawa will respond to the province's needs and concerns.

Nova Scotia is adamant about being included in a $35 billion ship procurement policy, a move the premier estimates could create thousands of jobs.

Dexter says he is also taking the prime minister at his word that Ottawa will help bring Labrador hydroelectric power online, either through a loan guarantee or some other fiscal plan.

He intends to raise the convention centre issue with Defence Minister Peter MacKay, Nova Scotia's cabinet representative, but he says he'll leave detailed talks to the ministers responsible for infrastructure.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

Nova Scotia premier looks for federal support

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/canada/a...scotia-premier-looks-for-federal-support

Published: May 26, 2011 11:48 a.m.
Last modified: May 26, 2011 12:02 p.m.

HALIFAX - Nova Scotia Premier Darrell Dexter is leading a delegation to Ottawa on Monday to try to push several huge projects forward, including Labrador power, a new convention centre for Halifax and the national shipbuilding strategy.

Dexter will be joined by several local business leaders in meetings with newly minted federal ministers.

The premier says now that the federal election is over they want to know how Ottawa will respond to the province's needs and concerns.

Nova Scotia is adamant about being included in a $35 billion ship procurement policy, a move the premier estimates could create thousands of jobs.

Dexter says he is also taking the prime minister at his word that Ottawa will help bring Labrador hydroelectric power online, either through a loan guarantee or some other fiscal plan.

He intends to raise the convention centre issue with Defence Minister Peter MacKay, Nova Scotia's cabinet representative, but he says he'll leave detailed talks to the ministers responsible for infrastructure.

It is good to see that Premier Dexter is trying to push the convention centre forward. Now if he could just get the HST back down to 13% ...

[Haliguy]

No call yet on convention centre cash
Ottawa still thinking about request for funds
By STEPHEN MAHER Ottawa Bureau
Tue, Jun 14 - 4:54 AM


OTTAWA — When Prime Minister Stephen Harper opened his speech Friday to Conservatives from across Canada at a party convention, he pointed to the facility — the recently completed $180-million Ottawa Convention Centre.

"Welcome, everybody, to Ottawa’s beautiful new convention centre," he said. "You know, I have to say this wonderful facility is a great example of what we can accomplish when we’re able to focus on creating jobs, building infrastructure and leaving a legacy for generations to come."

That focus has not been as successful with Halifax’s convention centre. As of Monday, it has been six months since Halifax Regional Municipality and the province announced an agreement to provide funding for a new convention centre in Halifax and asked the federal government to contribute $47 million.

Since then, the federal government has been studying the proposal. It continues to do so, Jay Paxton, a spokesman for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, said Monday.

"Officials at Infrastructure Canada are conducting their due diligence in reviewing this funding request," he said. "It’s important that federal officials take the time to make a proper assessment of the proposed convention centre."

Paxton said the government should have a decision "shortly."

New Democrat MP Robert Chisholm (Dartmouth-Cole Harbour) said Monday that the federal government’s different responses to Ottawa and Halifax are an example of "unequal treatment."

Chisholm said he and the two other Nova Scotia New Democrat MPs — Megan Leslie (Halifax) and Peter Stoffer (Sackville-Eastern Shore) — wrote to Harper last week to express their support for the project.

"We made it clear, just in case there was any confusion on the government’s part, that we support it," Chisholm said. "We support the decision of the two levels of government to put this project forward."

Previously, Leslie had expressed mixed feelings. In December, she wrote to Harper expressing concern about the convention centre and calling for public consultations. A spokesman for Premier Darrell Dexter said a new convention centre in Halifax, like the one in Ottawa, would have a positive impact.

"We agree with the prime minister about the economic contribution of a new convention centre, and have only heard positive comments from federal staff and ministers about the proposed Halifax centre," Shawn Fuller said. "Federal folks are the ones who can explain where it is in their decision-making schedule. They know that time is an issue."

When the city and province asked Ottawa to fund the convention centre, Halifax developer Joe Ramia of Rank Inc. gave government until Jan. 15 to decide. He later extended the deadline to April 15. Provincial Infrastructure Minister Bill Estabrooks said last month that Ramia was considering his options.

"At this stage, he’s asked that we step back for a few weeks," Estabrooks said. "I want to be respectful of Joe Ramia as the developer, and at this time I’m going to allow him a few more weeks of thinking over his alternatives."

( [email protected])

[worldlyhaligonian]

Whaaa? Leslie is now randomly in support of this... didn't she write Harper a letter decrying this development???

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Whaaa? Leslie is now randomly in support of this... didn't she write Harper a letter decrying this development???

I know eh!...I think Chisholm and Stoffer and the fact the provincial NDP are supporters of this project may have brought her around on it.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I know eh!...I think Chisholm and Stoffer and the fact the provincial NDP are supporters of this project may have brought her around on it.

Gee, with all this NDP support for the convention centre, this should put the kiss of death on the whole project!

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I know eh!...I think Chisholm and Stoffer and the fact the provincial NDP are supporters of this project may have brought her around on it.

I don't recall hearing that hell froze over?
Wow, impressive. Perhaps this might help - or like monctonrad said, kill it all together! =)