Highways in Canada

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

There used to be a restaurant I liked in Schreiber called Rosie's and Josie's, but I believe it closed down. It's probably too late too, but there is a really nice waterfall just outside of Terrace Bay that is only a short walk to see. That's true for Kakabeka Falls as well, come to think of it.

A quick hike on the Portage route at Kakabeka falls is worth the stop.

[haljackey]

I have never driven the 401 through Toronto in it's entirety. I thought Easter Sunday would be a nice day for a drive as traffic volumes on the road would be lighter. It was still very busy but I was able to record the entire stretch over 6 lanes!

• Video Link

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I have never driven the 401 through Toronto in it's entirety. I thought Easter Sunday would be a nice day for a drive as traffic volumes on the road would be lighter. It was still very busy but I was able to record the entire stretch over 6 lanes!

At points, I was swearing at the screen while watching that.

Love the stop 'n go traffic... and we get to enjoy more and more of it on weekends too now.

[MolsonExport]

All those lanes. And it still doesn't hardly ever work as intended...even on a Sunday. Unless I am driving it at the wee hours of the morning, I almost always encounter a few stop and starts and often, much, much worse.

[Innsertnamehere]

Thats way more traffic than a typical Sunday.. Traffic on sundays is usually only for accidents and a small amount at the choke points.

[middeljohn]

I'm not exactly sad that the 401 is no longer a part of my life. The Henday apparently never jams up. The worst thing about the 401 is if you're driving west from Ottawa, after a long day's drive and you're tired, then you have to deal with an hour or more of delays before you can get home.

[MolsonExport]

The 401 is designed to frustrate. I drive regularly from London to Montreal/Ottawa.

First I have to drive through London (I live far from the highway, so 15-40 minutes to access it, depending on the time of day and traffic)

Then to Toronto. Usually traffic starts bunching up at Milton...this can (usually does) continue until Bowmanville, on the other side of the GTA monster. You can lose 2 or more hours here if you are unlucky.

Then coming into Montreal, there can be major traffic from Highway 40 in Pointe-Claire onwards (never take the 20...due to the wretched missing stretch of highway in Dorion).

[haljackey]

Molson, have you ever taken the 407 to bypass the 401 or is the cost of it just not worth consideration?

Maybe it will be more viable once 407E is done and there will finally be a freeway connection back to the 401.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

At points, I was swearing at the screen while watching that.

Love the stop 'n go traffic... and we get to enjoy more and more of it on weekends too now.

Ontario is the only place I've ever been where 'pass on the left, never the right' is completely ignored. On the 401 they pass in what ever lane they want and often swerve over 2 lanes in 3 seconds. It's an accident waiting to happen.

The 401 is also the only highway I've ever been on where you have to change lanes to stay on the same highway. Everywhere else, new exit lanes appear on the right. It's no wonder tourists get lost and only realize 10-20 km later that they're no longer on the 401.

The 401 is a terribly designed highway.

[haljackey]

I blame the passing on the right on the slow speed limit. At 100km/h, I'd say 99+% of cars are breaking the law (when traffic is flowing normally). Since they are going faster than they should, they don't want to be in the right/slow lane. They also don't want to be in the way when other cars merge onto the highway from onramps.

The worst happens when people hog up the leftmost lane. That one is for passing. I do not care how fast you are going... move over!

In Germany, where there is high or no speed limits, everyone drives on the rightmost lane, even when there are multiple lanes on the highway.
-Let's say there are 3 lanes in your direction of travel. You drive on the rightmost lane and pass someone slower than you using the middle lane, then move back over. If someone who is driving faster than you while you are passing someone slower, they would move to the left lane, then move over when done.

I'd say speed limits isn't the only factor either, it can be due to a lack of driver education and road design. The 401 through Toronto has some weave points (when two interchanges are too close to one-another), mostly on the collectors. This makes people move over as soon as they can, rather than when it is most safe/efficient to do so. This causes people to break sometimes, and when the highway is busy, that braking causes cars behind them to brake and so on, slowing the whole highway down.

[Innsertnamehere]

The 401 through Toronto isn't super nice, but from my understanding Ontario has some of te highest design standard highways on the planet, at least for new construction. Highways like the northern chunk of the 400 and the twinned part of highway 7 are ridiculously well built.

[sonysnob]

A couple of pictures of the 404 extension north of Toronto:

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The 401 through Toronto isn't super nice, but from my understanding Ontario has some of te highest design standard highways on the planet, at least for new construction. Highways like the northern chunk of the 400 and the twinned part of highway 7 are ridiculously well built.

You're very much correct. And it's not just the super-new 400 and 7 highways. Highways 416, 417, 410, 404, etc. are all really good. It's really just the oldest parts of the 401 & the Toronto-Barrie section of the 400 that have substantial design flaws.

Another thing that MTO deserves praise for is actually rebuilding highways to new standards when warranted. For example Highway 417 between Ottawa & Montreal, which originally had gravel shoulders, has been upgraded to fully paved shoulders with rumble strips (new standard) with each newly repaved section. Whereas Quebec has also massively improved its road standards over time, but only applies them to new roads and doesn't really bother upgrading old ones.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

You're very much correct. And it's not just the super-new 400 and 7 highways. Highways 416, 417, 410, 404, etc. are all really good. It's really just the oldest parts of the 401 & the Toronto-Barrie section of the 400 that have substantial design flaws.

Another thing that MTO deserves praise for is actually rebuilding highways to new standards when warranted. For example Highway 417 between Ottawa & Montreal, which originally had gravel shoulders, has been upgraded to fully paved shoulders with rumble strips (new standard) with each newly repaved section. Whereas Quebec has also massively improved its road standards over time, but only applies them to new roads and doesn't really bother upgrading old ones.

The 401 through Toronto definitely has design flaws by modern standards. However, it should be a credit to the early highway designers that the highway continues to function as well as it does, and carries the volumes that it does. For example, the Dan Ryan in Chigago, which uses a similar express/collector setup has been very extensively reconstructed and redesigned since it opened, something (at least to that scale) that hasn't occurred on the 401.

Being the roadguy that I am, I really quite like driving the older sections of the 401, despite their design flaws. It makes the drive slightly more harrowing, which is fun when the traffic is right.

[milomilo]

I don't think speed limits are much of a factor at all. One contributor to poor lane discipline here I think is that virtually all non-minor roads are multiple lane, something which is less common in Europe. These roads, and the dominance of four way signalised intersections mean that the standard way to drive is to quickly get into the lane you need and stay in it, and this attitude carries on when on freeways.

In Calgary also, there is the problem that the roads have been built with no thought whatsoever, with lanes randomly ending or exiting with no warning. For this reason, it is easier just to drive in the second lane, and I don't blame people for doing this. I believe that Toronto has done better in this regard but don't have any experience driving there.

[Innsertnamehere]

is the 404 extension going to be concrete? or is that just the underlayer? Its weird to see a concrete road that far north..

its good to see the signs up and everything though. I'm looking forward to taking a nice trip down the new highway when it opens later this year.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

is the 404 extension going to be concrete? or is that just the underlayer? Its weird to see a concrete road that far north..

its good to see the signs up and everything though. I'm looking forward to taking a nice trip down the new highway when it opens later this year.

Yup, concrete it shall be, at least the northern 5km or so. The section of highway north of the Queensville Sideroad is pretty well finished, but there is still lots of work to be done on the section between Green Lane and Queensville.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Molson, have you ever taken the 407 to bypass the 401 or is the cost of it just not worth consideration?

Maybe it will be more viable once 407E is done and there will finally be a freeway connection back to the 401.

yes, and I still do if I hit the 401 at "Rush Hour" (7-10am and 3-7pm), despite the "highway robbery" price (~$24 for a one-way trip from Missingsausage to the middle of seemingly nowhere in Whitby or whatnot...then a drive back down to the 401).

[middeljohn]

I still think that the QEW through Halton is the best designed freeway in the entire 400 series. The fact that the on-ramp lanes continue for 2km until it becomes the off-ramp again at the next exit has made it a lot safer IMO, especially since so many people use it literally to go to the next exit and that's it. They basically cleared up the merging traffic bottlenecks without really widening the freeway. It's been 4 years now since the upgrade and the road surface is still in pristine condition.

Regarding the 407, I rarely used it, because crossing the GTA on it costs about $30. Not worth it for me in most cases. I did take it on Thursday morning when I began my roadtrip, simply because I knew I had an 8 hour drive ahead of me and needed to save my energy and concentration. Not looking forward to the bill though.

[Innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that it takes ~$30 to drive the entire 107km.

funny how you say the part south of Queensville is less finished, as the satellite imagery from March 2013 shows the part south of Queensville be closer to completion.. Never mind the fact that the on ramps from Green Lane have been paved for over a year now.