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  #2461  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
I cannot see any scenario from investing a few hundred million in a replacement domed stadium that would yield a decent return
I'm a little confused; are you supporting or not supporting a new stadium? A new stadium would be a guaranteed cash cow. Then in times such as these this is exactly the kind of low-risk thing we should pursue.

Although the existing stadium is already generating a comparable revenue stream, so I guess someone would have to crunch some numbers. Seems like a good idea to me. Will it get done? Later rather sooner I suspect. It certainly flies in the face of the state's "if it ain't broke" mentality. But then the state's FOOOOOOOTTTTTBBBBBAAAALLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!! mentality is also out there so who knows...

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  #2462  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 4:18 PM
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Fiorenza Fiorenza is offline
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It makes money for Mr. Blank maybe, but not the rest of us.

There's no taxpayer money, unless you want to lay off a few thousand more state workers - which is fine by me.
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  #2463  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
I can agree to investing a few millions of public money for a college football hall of fame because there would be a strong multiplier effect from an investment of that size and impact. However - especially given the financial condition of Atlanta, state of Georgia and US, at this time I cannot see any scenario from investing a few hundred million in a replacement domed stadium that would yield a decent return on investment to the taxpayers.

Some of you are in denial as to the true state of affairs. We are in a very precarious situation, especially Atlanta.
Remove the Falcons from downtown, and then examine the state of affairs...

Because that's what the alternative is. Blank is going to get his stadium. The dome is paid for, it's a piece of shit, and it's largest tenant is getting screwed.
     
     
  #2464  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by micropundit View Post
The City of Atlanta is not a major player in this deal; the State of Georgia owns the Georgia Dome and the Falcons are a tenant.
I'm very aware of that. However, the city has a vested interest in keeping the owner happy and the Falcons downtown, so they need to be willing to come to the table to negotiate a new deal.
     
     
  #2465  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 6:16 PM
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Why? I don't see keeping the Falcons in the Atlanta area as being more important than having a lower tax regime.
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  #2466  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 7:38 PM
micropundit micropundit is offline
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Betting on Atlanta

New York Times
March 9, 2010, 6:00 am
By EDWARD L. GLAESER
Edward L. Glaeser is an economics professor at Harvard.
Atlanta has been one of the biggest boomtowns of the past decade but, like other such places, its housing market has received such a severe drubbing that its future seems far less secure.
Atlanta added 1.13 million people from 2000 to 2008, more than any other in the country except Dallas. But from 2005 to 2009, the number of annual building permits fell by 66,352, the biggest decline in any metropolitan area.
Will Atlanta continue to emerge as a mighty metropolitan economy, or will the housing downturn turn the area into a place that might have been?
The present and future of cities always reflect their past, so I’ll begin by sketching the arc of the city’s growth.
While America’s older cities were located on major waterways, Atlanta’s location was determined by the happenstance of railroad lines.
It was the eastern terminus of the state-subsidized Western and Atlantic Railroad, and the city’s name honors that line. During the 1860s, the city was first burned by the Union Army and then turned into a military capital during Reconstruction. In 1868, Atlanta became the state’s capital, and in the two decades after the war, Atlanta became an educational hub with the opening of Clark College and Atlanta University (now Clark Atlanta), Spelman College, Morehouse College and Georgia Tech, and the reopening of nearby Emory.
From 1870 to 1930, the population of Atlanta surged from 22,000 to 270,000 as its rail access and proximity to cotton country made it a natural location for factories like the giant Fulton Bag and Cotton Mill. Atlanta’s growth attracted entrepreneurs, like John Pemberton and Asa Griggs, who would turn an erstwhile patent medicine, Coca-Cola, into a global mega-brand.
In the 20th century, Atlanta grew along with the rest of the Sun Belt, but the city’s education, politics and scale made its success an exception even for the South.
The broader economic success of the old Confederacy reflects political improvements and regional convergence, the tendency for poor places to grow more quickly, which was documented by Robert Barro and others. The figure shows the negative correlation (minus 0.70) between median income in 1950 and growth in the logarithm of median income between 1950 and 2000.
The South was poor and it grew more quickly, supported by an accompanying improvement in political institutions.
While the pre-World War II South was famous for single-party corruption that could scare off any industrialist, the post-Civil Rights Era South became known for being pro-business.
Right-to-work laws — laws, disproportionately enacted in the South and West, that generally bar requiring employees to join unions as a condition of employment — had a deep impact on manufacturing growth, as shown by Thomas Holmes. Before World War I, Atlanta experienced its immense 1906 Race Riot and the lynching of Leo Frank in 1913; in later years, Atlanta sold itself as the “City Too Busy To Hate.”
Heat-biased technological change bolstered the economic emergence of Atlanta and the South. Advances, like the air conditioner and cleaner water, made life easier and less deadly in hot places.
But the growth of the Sun Belt was not driven primarily by quality-of-life issues.
A core insight of spatial economics is that wages and prices and quality of life offset each other across space. Places with wonderful climates, like coastal California, have low real wages since people are willing to pay for the pleasant location. If the Sun Belt rose because people increasingly valued its amenities, then real wages in the region should be falling, but they are not. Incomes there are rising and prices are falling.
Housing supply, not quality of life, has been the crucial helpmate of economic convergence. Atlanta has kept housing prices low, despite a vast increase in its size, because there are few natural or legislative limits to new construction.
The city was built in the middle of the state with neither mountains nor an ocean to block its growth. The dominant political players have long been pro-growth, and as a result, much of suburban Atlanta is a paradise for builders. The resulting low home prices have helped bring millions to the region.
What about Atlanta today? Surely, a city that depended so much on building should be poised for collapse. Certainly, Atlanta’s 10.1 percent unemployment rate reflects its eviscerated construction industry. Certainly, like many other places, Atlanta is in for a rough few years.
Yet there are three key reasons to think that Atlanta will weather this storm and continue to thrive.
First, Atlanta benefits from the fact that it is the dominant agglomeration in the region. The continuing vitality of large cities is a remarkable feature of our age and Atlanta benefits from that fact.
Atlanta also benefits from its business-friendly politics, which will continue to attract plenty of companies.
Finally, Atlanta also benefits from being highly skilled — something that outsiders too often forget.
Nearly 43 percent of adults in the city of Atlanta have college degrees, as opposed to 27 percent in the nation as a whole, and 41 percent in Boston. The figure is even higher in surrounding Fulton County.
Skills have long led to urban success, especially when mixed with large urban size.
Smart money never bets against the ability of a huge concentration of smart people to weather an economic storm. Don’t count Atlanta out.

Last edited by micropundit; Mar 9, 2010 at 8:07 PM.
     
     
  #2467  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 7:38 PM
BlindFatSnake BlindFatSnake is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
Why? I don't see keeping the Falcons in the Atlanta area as being more important than having a lower tax regime.
I think I speak for most on this board when I say, "Fiorenza, we're sooooo glad you live in the burbs..."
     
     
  #2468  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 8:12 PM
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On one thing we can agree: It makes no sense for the Falcons to move to the burbs.
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  #2469  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2010, 10:37 PM
Pessimistic Observer Pessimistic Observer is offline
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any one know what the price tag for a new stadium would be
to beat dallas it would have to be more than a billion dollars if
it took almost 15 years to pay off the georgia dome itll take 30
for a new one.
In my opinion they should compromise 300mil renovation for the current ga dome might be a start
     
     
  #2470  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 6:13 AM
ATLBlaxican ATLBlaxican is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micropundit View Post
New York Times
March 9, 2010, 6:00 am
By EDWARD L. GLAESER
Edward L. Glaeser is an economics professor at Harvard.
Atlanta has been one of the biggest boomtowns of the past decade but, like other such places, its housing market has received such a severe drubbing that its future seems far less secure.
Atlanta added 1.13 million people from 2000 to 2008, more than any other in the country except Dallas. But from 2005 to 2009, the number of annual building permits fell by 66,352, the biggest decline in any metropolitan area.
Will Atlanta continue to emerge as a mighty metropolitan economy, or will the housing downturn turn the area into a place that might have been?
The present and future of cities always reflect their past, so I’ll begin by sketching the arc of the city’s growth.
While America’s older cities were located on major waterways, Atlanta’s location was determined by the happenstance of railroad lines.
It was the eastern terminus of the state-subsidized Western and Atlantic Railroad, and the city’s name honors that line. During the 1860s, the city was first burned by the Union Army and then turned into a military capital during Reconstruction. In 1868, Atlanta became the state’s capital, and in the two decades after the war, Atlanta became an educational hub with the opening of Clark College and Atlanta University (now Clark Atlanta), Spelman College, Morehouse College and Georgia Tech, and the reopening of nearby Emory.
From 1870 to 1930, the population of Atlanta surged from 22,000 to 270,000 as its rail access and proximity to cotton country made it a natural location for factories like the giant Fulton Bag and Cotton Mill. Atlanta’s growth attracted entrepreneurs, like John Pemberton and Asa Griggs, who would turn an erstwhile patent medicine, Coca-Cola, into a global mega-brand.
In the 20th century, Atlanta grew along with the rest of the Sun Belt, but the city’s education, politics and scale made its success an exception even for the South.
The broader economic success of the old Confederacy reflects political improvements and regional convergence, the tendency for poor places to grow more quickly, which was documented by Robert Barro and others. The figure shows the negative correlation (minus 0.70) between median income in 1950 and growth in the logarithm of median income between 1950 and 2000.
The South was poor and it grew more quickly, supported by an accompanying improvement in political institutions.
While the pre-World War II South was famous for single-party corruption that could scare off any industrialist, the post-Civil Rights Era South became known for being pro-business.
Right-to-work laws — laws, disproportionately enacted in the South and West, that generally bar requiring employees to join unions as a condition of employment — had a deep impact on manufacturing growth, as shown by Thomas Holmes. Before World War I, Atlanta experienced its immense 1906 Race Riot and the lynching of Leo Frank in 1913; in later years, Atlanta sold itself as the “City Too Busy To Hate.”
Heat-biased technological change bolstered the economic emergence of Atlanta and the South. Advances, like the air conditioner and cleaner water, made life easier and less deadly in hot places.
But the growth of the Sun Belt was not driven primarily by quality-of-life issues.
A core insight of spatial economics is that wages and prices and quality of life offset each other across space. Places with wonderful climates, like coastal California, have low real wages since people are willing to pay for the pleasant location. If the Sun Belt rose because people increasingly valued its amenities, then real wages in the region should be falling, but they are not. Incomes there are rising and prices are falling.
Housing supply, not quality of life, has been the crucial helpmate of economic convergence. Atlanta has kept housing prices low, despite a vast increase in its size, because there are few natural or legislative limits to new construction.
The city was built in the middle of the state with neither mountains nor an ocean to block its growth. The dominant political players have long been pro-growth, and as a result, much of suburban Atlanta is a paradise for builders. The resulting low home prices have helped bring millions to the region.
What about Atlanta today? Surely, a city that depended so much on building should be poised for collapse. Certainly, Atlanta’s 10.1 percent unemployment rate reflects its eviscerated construction industry. Certainly, like many other places, Atlanta is in for a rough few years.
Yet there are three key reasons to think that Atlanta will weather this storm and continue to thrive.
First, Atlanta benefits from the fact that it is the dominant agglomeration in the region. The continuing vitality of large cities is a remarkable feature of our age and Atlanta benefits from that fact.
Atlanta also benefits from its business-friendly politics, which will continue to attract plenty of companies.
Finally, Atlanta also benefits from being highly skilled — something that outsiders too often forget.
Nearly 43 percent of adults in the city of Atlanta have college degrees, as opposed to 27 percent in the nation as a whole, and 41 percent in Boston. The figure is even higher in surrounding Fulton County.
Skills have long led to urban success, especially when mixed with large urban size.
Smart money never bets against the ability of a huge concentration of smart people to weather an economic storm. Don’t count Atlanta out.



I was just going to ask what is the real deal with Atlanta and jobs? I keep reading all these reports about companies moving their head quarters to the Atlanta area, but then I read conflicting reports saying that we are stagnate/ losing jobs. My friend was telling me that she wants to move to Dallas because she feels that she will have a better chance to get a job. So someone please clear add there 2 cents because I would really like to know what's going on. THX
     
     
  #2471  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 1:30 PM
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Anyone seen that they are demolishing a government building near the capitol building that is right beside the connector? I drove by today and saw a gaping hole in the side of it. Just wondering whats going on
     
     
  #2472  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer View Post
any one know what the price tag for a new stadium would be
to beat dallas it would have to be more than a billion dollars if
it took almost 15 years to pay off the georgia dome itll take 30
for a new one.
In my opinion they should compromise 300mil renovation for the current ga dome might be a start
The cost would largely depend where it would be built and what features it would have. I've got to think the next stadium would have a retractable roof...and hopefully some real grass... I'd put a pricetag of around $700 million on it.

The problem isn't the stadium (yes, it is a piece of shit) so much as it is the current revenue sharing agreement between the Falcons and GWCC. If they'd fix that and promise the renovations, I think quite a few people would tolerate the current venue.
     
     
  #2473  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago View Post
Remove the Falcons from downtown, and then examine the state of affairs...

Because that's what the alternative is. Blank is going to get his stadium. The dome is paid for, it's a piece of shit, and it's largest tenant is getting screwed.
If your downtown is dependent on a sports team, you've got bigger problems than a 14-year-old stadium.
     
     
  #2474  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang View Post
Anyone seen that they are demolishing a government building near the capitol building that is right beside the connector? I drove by today and saw a gaping hole in the side of it. Just wondering whats going on
I think they are tearing it down and will be replacing it with a parking deck. This is so that they can remove the parking lot/deck directly in front of the capitol building to get ready for the new park (Capitol Gateway Park I think) that will eventually extend to Oakland Cemetery.

Old article, but reinforces the idea:
http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshloaf/2008/01/28/capitol-gateway-park-moves-closer-to-reality/
     
     
  #2475  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 5:21 PM
Tuckerman Tuckerman is offline
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Don't pack any bags

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLBlaxican View Post
I was just going to ask what is the real deal with Atlanta and jobs? I keep reading all these reports about companies moving their head quarters to the Atlanta area, but then I read conflicting reports saying that we are stagnate/ losing jobs. My friend was telling me that she wants to move to Dallas because she feels that she will have a better chance to get a job. So someone please clear add there 2 cents because I would really like to know what's going on. THX

Don't pack any bags for Dallas; nothing wrong with Dallas, but this economic downturn affects all the US cities and States and it is slowly easing up. The fundamentals that have caused the strong growth in Atlanta, Dallas, etc are still there and will remain. It is difficult to be optimistic when times are rough, but these economic trends are, as well pointed out in the article, are long term, sometimes decades.
     
     
  #2476  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyg View Post
If your downtown is dependent on a sports team, you've got bigger problems than a 14-year-old stadium.
It has nothing to do with being downtown dependant. Atlanta survived with a shitty non-existent football team for 40 years. It could survive without one, but it would be much better off with a happy owner in Flowery Branch.
     
     
  #2477  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 7:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago View Post
Atlanta survived with a shitty non-existent football team for 40 years.
Well the Falcons went to the Super Bowl about 10 years ago and did all right. Granted they haven't been that great since then.
     
     
  #2478  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2010, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuckerman View Post
this economic downturn affects all the US cities and States and it is slowly easing up.
'Slowly easing up' is a catchy tag line though.
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  #2479  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cybele View Post
Well the Falcons went to the Super Bowl about 10 years ago and did all right. Granted they haven't been that great since then.
And I was in Miami for it. The problem with the Falcons has been consistency, and having an owner willing to invest the money in talent. We have an owner willing to do that, and now we have a consistent team (back to back winning seasons).
     
     
  #2480  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2010, 2:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyg View Post
If your downtown is dependent on a sports team, you've got bigger problems than a 14-year-old stadium.
Downtown isn't singularly dependent on the dome, but it certainly represents a huge chunk of its attractiveness.

Aquarium, WoC, Philips, The Dome, CoP, and the Tabernacle. Removing the dome wouldn't kill downtown, but I still don't want to see 1/6th of downtown's major attractions disappear either.
     
     
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