PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[Philly Fan]

A large Philly-based group of architects and designers just came out against the 76ers’ arena plan

A Philadelphia organization made up of more than 2,100 architects and building design experts this week came out in opposition to the 76ers’ plan for a new downtown arena, saying it would not only fail to revitalize East Market Street but would also ”make matters worse” for the long-struggling Center City thoroughfare.

The Design Advocacy Group’s steering committee wrote in a statement that rather than “integrate itself into the fabric of the city,” the proposed arena, which would take up a footprint of 10th to 11th and Market to Filbert Streets, would “abolish Filbert Street, bury SEPTA’s Jefferson Regional Rail station, and wall off Chinatown.”

“Except for the 40-some times a year that the Sixers play, the arena will not fill the surrounding streets with activity,” the committee wrote, “and on those few busy nights, Sixers’ fans, who are not known to be devotees of public transportation, will clog the area in search of parking places.”

More at the above link.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Saint Joseph's University acquires 12-acre property for $15M, expanding City Avenue footprint

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-city-ave.html

Some of the info from this article: https://montco.today/2023/08/st-jose...w-acquisition/

The college recently acquired 11.6 acres of property for $15 million along City Avenue, writes Ryan Mulligan for the Philadelphia Business Journal.

The property will be adjacent to the school’s Maguire Wolfington Welcome Center. St. Joe’s will be working with the architecture and design firm Sasaki and Associates to incorporate the newly acquired land into their updated master plan to expand the campus.

St. Joe’s is also planning to break ground for a six-story residence hall this fall on a parcel of land it bought from the Archdiocese of Philadelphia in 2012.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

A large Philly-based group of architects and designers just came out against the 76ers’ arena plan

More at the above link.

This group also wanted to save University City Townhomes and said that billboards on bus shelters "make it less safe." It seems as they are not really for urban design and planning because the 76ers arena is quite possibly the most urban and public transit friendly private project in Philadelphia history.

In this "article" they said: "Sixers' fans, who are not known to be devotees of public transportation, will clog the area in search of parking places." They provide no evidence for this. The rest of the article is saying the obvious, yes a 24/7 mixed use building would be great...but no one is proposing that and anyone who has that money isn't committing to 11th and Market...because it is a dump.

https://designadvocacy.org/advocacy/...omes-community
https://designadvocacy.org/advocacy/...n-t-feel-safe3

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

This group also wanted to save University City Townhomes and said that billboards on bus shelters "make it less safe." It seems as they are not really for urban design and planning because the 76ers arena is quite possibly the most urban and public transit friendly private project in Philadelphia history.

In this "article" they said: "Sixers' fans, who are not known to be devotees of public transportation, will clog the area in search of parking places." They provide no evidence for this. The rest of the article is saying the obvious, yes a 24/7 mixed use building would be great...but no one is proposing that and anyone who has that money isn't committing to 11th and Market...because it is a dump.

https://designadvocacy.org/advocacy/...omes-community
https://designadvocacy.org/advocacy/...n-t-feel-safe3

A lot of talking out the a@@ if you ask me...

Hypothetical: I read multiple mentions of creating vibrant 24/7 street-oriented activity. Forget the arena for a second, if a developer proposed to tear down the fashion district, restore the grid, and replace it with street facing retail/entertainment and a few towers containing a high-end hotel and luxury apartments (a superior plan IMO), would these people still complain and say it is wrong for the area? My guess is yes...

[Gferg01]

Drove by the Lidl that is going up on Broad and Girard today, it looks like the building next door is getting bulldozed as well?! 906-916 N. Broad St. (old Camerons Seafood building) Didn't think anything was happening there too, but that entire block is going to look very very different soon!

Any renderings of what this may be?

[Mr Saturn64]

Qatar Airways Drops Philadelphia after American Airlines Takes Over

https://simpleflying.com/qatar-airwa...es-takes-over/


You know what I've noticed? Philly has virtually no foreign carriers at the airport. Once Qatar leaves, it's just Air Canada, British, Aer Lingus, and Eurowings. Even Baltimore has more. Even way smaller cities like Raleigh have as many. It's pathetic.

[SEFTA]

I read something a few years ago saying PHL's runways are too short to accommodate the large planes that are desired for oversea flights.
Don't know if that's true.
I also thought there was a plan to extend the runways.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I read something a few years ago saying PHL's runways are too short to accommodate the large planes that are desired for oversea flights.
Don't know if that's true.
I also thought there was a plan to extend the runways.

One runway is 12000ft, plenty for long distance flights. That extension was completed in 2018.

PHL main problem is the city is not competitive enough. You can argue Newark and JFK are too close by. But that does not excuse Philly to attract more airlines. Both the airport and the city need to change the image and demonstrate that Philadelphia is a great business city and fun leisure city.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I read something a few years ago saying PHL's runways are too short to accommodate the large planes that are desired for oversea flights.
Don't know if that's true.
I also thought there was a plan to extend the runways.

Perhaps not enough runways?

American operates the 777 and 787 Dreamliner out of Philadelphia, which are the largest planes in its fleet.

I think the real issue is proximity to New York/Newark and DC. How does PHL fix that?

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I read something a few years ago saying PHL's runways are too short to accommodate the large planes that are desired for oversea flights.
Don't know if that's true.
I also thought there was a plan to extend the runways.

Qatar Air has been flying into PHL for at least 3 years. I dunno how the runways became too short all of a sudden.

This blows.

[CleetMcDougle]

It's as simple as American is taking over the route to Doha. That flight is staying, just operated by American rather than Qatar.

There is no need for doom and gloom - just last week PHL announced direct flights to Doha (the one being taken over), Copenhagen, Nice, and Naples.

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I read something a few years ago saying PHL's runways are too short to accommodate the large planes that are desired for oversea flights.
Don't know if that's true.
I also thought there was a plan to extend the runways.

It's not. There have actually been a few instances where an Airbus A380 made an emergency landing in Philly and then took off again.

[SEFTA]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

One runway is 12000ft, plenty for long distance flights. That extension was completed in 2018.

PHL main problem is the city is not competitive enough. You can argue Newark and JFK are too close by. But that does not excuse Philly to attract more airlines. Both the airport and the city need to change the image and demonstrate that Philadelphia is a great business city and fun leisure city.

Thanks
agreed
Philly really needs to promote fun and leisure.
It's such an amazing city offering something most cities can only dream of.
I always say money spent on tourism will be money returned.
It's like the people in charge are unaware how unique it is.
Money should pour into upgrading Independence Mall, E Market, capping 676 and BF Parkway.
I believe money from tourism will float all boats.
Very excited over the reconstruction of Logan Square, the Parkway and Penn's Landing. A continuous walkable tourist spine from Logan Square/Fairmount Park to Penn's Landing.
We're headed in the right direction outside of some serious missteps. That is also a Philly tradition.
I've spent most of my adult life living in heavy tourist areas and it has its perks.
Philly has the ability to be a top global destination.
It's coming along nicely.
Every place in CC is a photo-op.

Comparing PHL to BWI is a little unfair as it's DCs airport too.
I wonder how feasible it would be to have an AMTRAK hi-speed AIRPORT LINE?
Connecting all the airports AND the city centers along the NEC.
Plane cancelled in Newark? Get the train to PHL.
Logan, Newark, PHL, BWI, Dulles, as well as each center city... Richmond? Portland?
but I digress

I always look to Paris for inspiration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kZ3rWHs9wU

[UrbanRevival]

Yeah, no need for the gloom meters to off on Qatar Airways since it's essentially the switching of route carrier, not route elimination.

I don't think people realize how carefully calibrated and calculated the airline industry is these days, and Qatar understandably decided they're not going to compete with AA.

This is good news for Philly, folks. About a decade ago, AA announced a PHL transatlantic hub strategy. However, that was pushed aside in favor of JFK. Now they see the operational deficiencies at JFK, and they're relaunching their PHL transatlantic hub strategy, as there's clearly much more room for growth at PHL. This will drive a lot more connecting traffic through Philadelphia over the long-term.

Prior to COVID ravaging international travel, Philly was definitely growing in overseas visitation. It's only a matter of getting that back on track.

Here's a snippet from a July article in Airline Weekly

“Philadelphia is a key hub for American and continues to play an essential role in connecting our customers to the world’s best network,” an American spokesperson said. “We expect to grow Philadelphia’s schedule back to 2019 levels in the next few years. We are pleased to be working with the City of Philadelphia to invest in projects at Philadelphia International Airport that benefit our customers and team members.”

During a March session with American employees, Brian Znotins, American’s vice president of network and schedule planning, declared: “Philadelphia is still our primary European gateway.” Although American also flies transatlantic from New York’s John F. Kennedy airport, Znotins said that, “JFK is built for the locals. We don’t have a lot of connectivity in JFK. We can’t serve the country to Europe with JFK flying. In Philadelphia, we can serve the country to Europe.”

https://airlineweekly.com/2023/07/am...blue-alliance/

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by CleetMcDougle

It's as simple as American is taking over the route to Doha. That flight is staying, just operated by American rather than Qatar.

There is no need for doom and gloom - just last week PHL announced direct flights to Doha (the one being taken over), Copenhagen, Nice, and Naples.

it's still nice to have a portfolio of carriers at the airport so that american can't gouge on price.

just last week I flew back from Spain. i was on an extended stay and when I went, I bought a one way ticket there because I wasn't exactly sure what my itinerary would be once I was there or exactly how many days I was going to stay.

well, American knew I was there and that presumably I needed to come back, so any return flight I searched for on American regardless of city was about $3000k for a coach ticket. i ended up flying back from dublin on aer lingus for 1/3 the price American was trying to charge me. if it weren't for that flight, i would have flown into Newark.

part of the reason why philly can't get more traction is because american has a monopoly and when you're price shopping on airline tickets, it often makes more sense to go to Newark or BWI because it can be far cheaper. in those cases, even people for whom PHL is more convenient and closer go somewhere else because once you get to a difference of $400 or $500 a ticket the added expense of getting to a further airport is often worth it.

[PhillyPDX]

Qatar and AA are the same alliance, so it's really just a different livery for the same flight.

I had heard in past much of PHLs issues stem from ATC and its proximity to EWR (and LGA/JFK/BWI). Forget if I'm making this up, but there was something about an ATC move away from its current antiquated radar based system would allow for more/better flights into PHL. This added to PHLs unique runway model where both runways (takeoff and landing) are on same side of terminal building, which I think is somewhat unique for single runway major airports. Easy for delays to mount.

After all, most international flyers from airports are connections, and flyers don't care where they connect aside from time/cost/potential delays. So I'm not quite sure why "smaller" airports like PHL (or PDX) can't compete better vs the bigger names. Surely they should be cheaper for airlines, and being less busy should allow for airlines to better schedule flights. If PHL wanted more international, it should be cheaper/easier than EWR for airlines to operate out of to encourage it.

[PhilliesPhan]

You all did a perfect job of explaining why Qatar is dropping its PHL-DOH flight. Essentially, this has more to do with the JetBlue/Spirit merger than it has to do with Qatar's ability to capture demand out of PHL. JetBlue and American are unwinding the Northeast Alliance as a result of a Department of Justice lawsuit against it. With the dissolution of the Alliance, American is moving its JFK-DOH flight to PHL. Qatar isn't about to compete with American at one of its fortress hubs, so it took over the JFK-DOH route. It's technically a carrier swap more than anything.

PHL needs to compete on the fact that we have a large, centrally-located, non slot restricted airport with a ton of OneWorld connectivity to the rest of the US. Unlike all three New York area airports and DCA, PHL does not have any takeoff and landing restrictions. This should be a huge boost as transatlantic travel comes roaring back. I would love to see Turkish Airlines, Norwegian, Icelandair, and even Japan Airlines and Cathay Pacific come in. I would also love to see an Asian destination from PHL in the coming years. Philadelphia to Tokyo, Hong Kong, or Shanghai could perform well.

[mcgrath618]

Philadelphia to Tokyo would’ve been handy for me a month ago.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by CleetMcDougle

It's as simple as American is taking over the route to Doha. That flight is staying, just operated by American rather than Qatar.

There is no need for doom and gloom - just last week PHL announced direct flights to Doha (the one being taken over), Copenhagen, Nice, and Naples.

The level of service isn't comparable. That's cause for some disappointment.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Mr Saturn64

It's not. There have actually been a few instances where an Airbus A380 made an emergency landing in Philly and then took off again.

The real issue with A380s is the boarding facilities upgrades needed for that double decker monster. We'd also need enough passenger volume to fill one of them.