Sacramento: 301 Capitol Mall: A New Plan for The Towers Site

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by mechanico

Those that felt the "wealth effect" and believed their equity was money in the bank to be withdrawn and played with, or thought of as savings enabling them to spend more recklessly are now burried in debt. Debt levels have not been this high since the depression, not that we are facing a depression.

True

Originally Posted by mechanico

They don't want to believe it. The local economy simply can't support current levels even with bay area transplants.

True again; but certainly a market correction for Sacramento is long overdue and will probably help long term (after some short term pain).
Help everyone but invesgtors who purchased for investment while th emarket was high.

Originally Posted by mechanico

I encourage you to drive out to Natomas where you'll find for sale signs on most every street (many with Foreclosure on them) and a sea of 1000's of lots, ready to build. Pay attention to the number of McMansions with dead lawns. I think we are in for one hell of a correction. I'm not in the sky is falling camp but this feels like 2001 all over again.

Well your right about the 'correction' and as you said the sky isn't falling.
I wouldn't presume to question you about the foreclosures, because i know that it's part of the correction; or rather it's part of the problem of people signing contracts that they either couldn't affrod or didn't understand.

Originally Posted by mechanico

What does this mean for this project.....Scratch everything luxury, and or innovative about it. The riskiest things you can build right now are condos.

Here i would disagree with you. I don't think the riskiest thing that can be built are condos. Certainly 600 (+) people putting down non refundable depostis between Aura and 301CM (not to mention the L street Lofts) demonstrates there's a market for high end condos.

Addtionally new housing in around DT Sacramento (West Sacramento) seems to be weathering the housing slump o.k.

People that choose to live downtown are buying into a lifestyle.

There a host of reasons why 301 CM didn't pencil out as proposed.
Demand though didn't seem to be the initial problem as the project was practically half sold prior to the foundation even being poured.

It will take one project to rise from the ground though and then I think the banks will look more favorably on the Sacramento market.

Although nothing will suprise me about Aura, I'm still hopeful that Nassi can pull it off. Hopefully buyers that deciding to move their depostis from 301 CM to Aura, will push Aura's sales number up for the 65-70% (whatever they are) and help secure Nassi financing.

[TheDerek]

Quote:Originally Posted by mechanico
What does this mean for this project.....Scratch everything luxury, and or innovative about it. The riskiest things you can build right now are condos.


Here i would disagree with you. I don't think the riskiest thing that can be built are condos. Certainly 600 (+) people putting down non refundable depostis between Aura and 301CM (not to mention the L street Lofts) demonstrates there's a market for high end condos.

Addtionally new housing in around DT Sacramento (West Sacramento) seems to be weathering the housing slump o.k.

People that choose to live downtown are buying into a lifestyle.



I have to agree with urban here. The demand for housing in the burbs and condos downtown are two different demands, sure they aren't 100% mutualy exlusive, but the type of people who demand condos are NOT the same that demand the suburban lifestyle. Also the housing slump is a result of the correction of the supply and demand curve. If no new condos have been added downtown, what correction is needed? The people looking at aura and the towers want high-rise condos, which as far as I know, there are none (lofts and buildings such as 500N street don't count as 'high-rise' as far as I'm concerned)

There were two factors I would contribute to saca's failure:

1. Experience. He was inexperienced, and so was his contractor (I read the contractor had never done a high-rise, I could be wrong), An old article from the bee quoted Saca saying one of the unexpected costs were the piles stopping at different depths and having to be cut off. This happens with every high rise! If this was unexpected how could they NOT overrun thier budget?

2. The media. Its obvious there is a demand, and I think the only reason both saca and nassi arent getting thier quotas is because the media has done its job at scaring people away from making deposits because the "housing" market is down... There were at least 3 people at my last job that were planning on buying a condo from one (or both) of the projects once they were finished, but didnt want to make a deposit because of what they had heard from the news. I guess most people confuse 'houses' with 'condos'...

Anyways I guarantee you that if the Aura gets built it will pretty much fill up. Housing slump or not.

[travis bickle]

There were two factors I would contribute to saca's failure:

1. Experience. He was inexperienced, and so was his contractor (I read the contractor had never done a high-rise, I could be wrong), An old article from the bee quoted Saca saying one of the unexpected costs were the piles stopping at different depths and having to be cut off. This happens with every high rise! If this was unexpected how could they NOT overrun thier budget?

Wow... if this is true - that's really a blow-it. On my projects if I don't have much experience with a specific product type, I make sure that all of my consultants/trades do. There are just so many things going on in any project - particularly a high-rise - that you need a team that has fought the battles before, particularly those endemic to your product.

I'd be very surprised if the financial teams wouldn't have demanded more experienced consultants. And I’d be disappointed if Saca thought he could pull a monumental project like this off w/o an experienced team. That kind of thing would just kill you.

[sugit]

The contractor (originally) was Turner Construction...they have a ton of experience building high rises. I do remember that article though, I'm pretty sure Saca was saying they didn't have much experience in high rise residential.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by neuhickman79

I actually like Waterview a LOT! It may not be as tall as the Towers. But, it does have a look of sophistication.

I agree 100% and I would add that were the Waterview 54 stories tall it would easily rival 301 CM's design as it was proposed on Capitol Mall.

Lastly Waterview looks nothing like 800 J (which is the concern that a few people expressed would happen)

It sounds as if Sacramento will see anmixed use project that wont even come close to looking like 800 J lofts.

In fact CIM's mixed use proposal for 301 CM may even be a bit taller than their 29 story Waterview Tower, since piles have mostly been driven for taller structures and Downtown Sacramento doesn't have the same kind of height restrictions that both San Jose and Washingotn D.C. have.

This will be an exciting proposal. Though most people associate "iconic' with tall, this will certainly meet some of the different expectations expressed so far here in forum.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by JeffZurn

I cannot remember who said it but they said it looks like Sacramento was ran over with a lawn mower.

City Councilwoman Sandy Sheedy

[markie1]

Waterview was designed by Pei Cobb & Freed...that makes it iconic just by architecture firm, doesn't it?

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by markie1

Waterview was designed by Pei Cobb & Freed...that makes it iconic just by architecture firm, doesn't it?

Well... they're about as gnarly as you get...

I just don't want the typical short and bulky Sacramento style. Let's get some style. Let's get some grace. Let's see a project that really soars.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by Majin

Damn has there been any good new lately?

621 Capitol Mall u/c (25 stories)

500 Capitol Mall u/c (25 stories)

Cal STRS u/c (19 stories)

L street Lofts u/c (8 stories /92 condos)

The Railyards is moving forward

All the new restaurants and night clubs opening up...

Aura isn't totally out of the question yet..

Things are moving at a fast clip downtown..

There are a few road bumps, but everything will work out..

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

621 Capitol Mall u/c (25 stories)

500 Capitol Mall u/c (25 stories)

Cal STRS u/c (19 stories)

L street Lofts u/c (8 stories /92 condos)

The Railyards is moving forward

All the new restaurants and night clubs opening up...

Aura isn't totally out of the question yet..

Things are moving at a fast clip downtown..

There are a few road bumps, but everything will work out..

I completely agree with this. We've had a bitter defeat and we have to listen to the local creatins do a little gloating, but downtown Sacramento is just blossoming. It's great to see.

I wouldn't give up on Aura quite yet either.

Keep the faith; keep aiming high; keep watching Sacramento prove the nay-sayers wrong.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

621 Capitol Mall u/c (25 stories)

500 Capitol Mall u/c (25 stories)

Cal STRS u/c (19 stories)

L street Lofts u/c (8 stories /92 condos)

The Railyards is moving forward

All the new restaurants and night clubs opening up...

Aura isn't totally out of the question yet..

Things are moving at a fast clip downtown..

There are a few road bumps, but everything will work out..

My sentiments exactly. Sometimes the biggest don't make it. But, it's the small projects that keep on chugging that are going to add people...and people of diverse incomes at that!

[arod74]

Originally Posted by Phillip

I was wondering if people disliked those other CIM projects because of their particular design and another twin tower highrise of similar scale but different design would be acceptable? Or does ANYTHING less than 40 stories fail the "iconic" test?

I think if the Towers had never been proposed and CIM came in out of the blue with a proposal for a project of similar nature to their waterview structures, we would all be creaming ourselves with joy. Compared with the sheer size of the Towers, its just hard to geek yourself up for a couple of highrises in the 300ft-400ft range. No matter how stunning the architecture might be for the final design, it will fall short of being iconic imo if it didn't at least surpase the Wells Fargo buiding by 50ft-100ft. Since all indications are that they will be using the same footprint I find it hard to believe that a new design for some twins will be any higher than than what we have now. Its too bad the piles have already been driven to accomodate 2 buildings. I think the chances of getting a much bigger building than what will eventually be proposed would have been a lot better if they werent already in the ground.

[arod74]

Originally Posted by TowerDistrict

By the way, I may be one of the few who like the Metropolitan design. If the building keeps the slim profile of a long rectangle ribbed by the balconies with the taller nested rectangles topped with a spire, I think you have a simple but very elegantly modern design. Sort of similar to the Esquire building.

yeah 100+ posts

[creamcityleo79]

Here's a MUCH better picture (albeit smaller)!

[buckfmsac]

I agree with you guys, I like the looks of metro allot

[JeffZurn]

I have always liked the Metropolitan as well. Saca says in the article, that him and his family are planning a high rise, I thought the Metropolitan already went through the EIR? What kind of timeline does everyone think for this project getting started?

[sugit]

Looks like Saca isn't wasting anytime...The Metropolitan is going before Design Review and Planning Commission for comment and review in the next month.

I can't see how someone can't admire his determination. Looks like he is possibly going to drop the condo unit down to 200 and add a 120 room hotel.


Planning Commission - June 28th
The Metropolitan (Noticed on 06/15/07)
Location: Northeast corner of 10th and J Streets, District 1
Recommendation: Receive and provide input – review and provide input of a thirty-nine (39) story, high-rise tower, consisting of three-hundred and twenty (320) residential condominium units or alternative of two-hundred (200) residential condominium units and one-hundred and twenty (120) hotel rooms, approximately thirteen-thousand (13,000±) square feet of ground floor retail, five-hundred and fourteen (514) on-site parking spaces, for a total building area of approximately six-hundred-forty-two-thousand (642,000±) square feet.

[TowerDistrict]

ehh??? 120 room hotel?

i don't think the group across the street is going to be too happy about that!

[wburg]

Why not? A greater density of hotels, with consumer choices (one shiny and new, the other retro and boutique-y) isn't such a bad thing.

I suppose there is no low-income component in this project...

[arod74]

Hey sugit, do you have a tentative height on the Met?