Canadian Retail Thread

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Nordstrom has not bought a single Sears lease...

Although rumour has it that they will, no? I love Nordstrom.

[SpongeG]

where is etobiko?

[The Gibbroni]

I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of yet more, ground breaking retail from the U.S. There has been such a shortage, until now. Finally, I will have access to the same cutting edge fashion that has- up until now- only been available to the smart centre shopping, fashionista trend-setters at Nordstrom locations in avant-garde fashion states such as Iowa and Indiana. The Bloomingdales outlets in the supermalls of New Jersey and Minnesota will no longer beckon my name, for I will be able to mimic the exact same style as the average Hackensackian and Bloomingtonian!

Glory days are here at last, and may God Bless the savings of up to 5$ on each pair of (Chinese made) pants that were- until now- only available in 70 or 80 very exclusive locations in the U.S. (or online, in Canada)

Bravo Canada!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by The Gibbroni

I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of yet more, ground breaking retail from the U.S. There has been such a shortage, until now. Finally, I will have access to the same cutting edge fashion that has- up until now- only been available to the smart centre shopping, fashionista trend-setters at Nordstrom locations in avant-garde fashion states such as Iowa and Indiana. The Bloomingdales outlets in the supermalls of New Jersey and Minnesota will no longer beckon my name, for I will be able to mimic the exact same style as the average Hackensackian and Bloomingtonian!

Glory days are here at last, and may God Bless the savings of up to 5$ on each pair of (Chinese made) pants that were- until now- only available in 70 or 80 very exclusive locations in the U.S. (or online, in Canada)

Bravo Canada!

Does one detect a smidgen of sarcasm, perhaps?

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by The Gibbroni

I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of yet more, ground breaking retail from the U.S. There has been such a shortage, until now.

The U.S. stores sell almost the exact same stuff for the most part that you will find in Holt Renfrew and The Bay. Except Holt renfrew might have some different really expensive brands.

In fact Holt Renfrew would be even more upscale than Bloomingdales and Nordstroms in most cases(save for the flagship Bloomingdales in NYC).
I would say Holt Renfrew can give these stores a run for their money and really has a class and style that these stores don't have. And part of it comes from Holt Renfrew only having a couple stores, where the American ones can be found everywhere, and have boring small suburban stores, instead of nice large downtown stores like Holt Renfrew generally has.
Holt Renfrew also partners with places from England and Europe, to bring in interesting food items, etc. Really sets it apart.

[taal]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

The U.S. stores sell the exact same stuff for the most part that you will find in Holt Renfrew and The Bay.

In fact Holt Renfrew would be even more upscale than Bloomingdales and Nordstroms in most cases(save for the flagship Bloomingdales in NYC).
I would say Holt Renfrew can give these stores a run for their money and really has a class and style that these stores don't have. And part of it comes from Holt Renfrew only having a couple stores, where the American ones can be found everywhere, and have boring small suburban stores, instead of nice large downtown stores like Holt Renfrew generally has.
Holt Renfrew also partners with places from England and Europe, to bring in interesting food items, etc. Really sets it apart.

I find this very hard to believe, though I'm not sure about Bloomingdales in particular, just referring to the states:

On a trip to Houston I recall paying the local mall a visit, there were countless stores with clothing listing in the 2/3+ thousand dollar level. I've seen this in other high-end malls / strips in US cities as well.

I just don't think Canada is at that level, simply put we have a smaller portion of the population that fits into that very high income earner category. On top that even when they do I think the cultural is different in Canada some way or another.

[Gerrard]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Nordstrom has not bought a single Sears lease...

They are shopping them.

I'm not a fan of Nordstrom, especially the men's selection. It's either boring as hell (for the over 50 suburban crowd that golfs) or super youthful and tacky -think graphic tees and square toed shoes (it reminds me somewhat of Harry Rosen and their inability to select clothing for the over 30 but under 50 crowd). Bloomingdales on the other hand has a fairly good men's selection (depending of course on location -the San Francisco store is terrific). If anything I'd be far more excited about a Barney's COOp.

You'd be surprised Taal, there are plenty of people in Canada that spend money on luxury and can afford it in Canada. Bloomindales and Nordstrom aren't high HIGH! end luxury, and most of their clothing fits in the under $500.00 rage. Canada doesn't even approach the wealth of U.S. consumers however neither do Europeans on average and they still manage to keep their high end luxury in business (although typically they are shopping for *quality* over quantity and tend to mix it up both high and low. (I starred -quality- because slapping a Prada label on something doesn't mean it's gonna last). However I used to balk at paying 250.00 for a pair of jeans when I could probably buy 3 or more pairs of Levis for the same price but the truth is, that $250 pair of jeans get worn to death and tend to last well beyond what a pair of $60 jeans might.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by taal

I find this very hard to believe, though I'm not sure about Bloomingdales in particular, just referring to the states:
On a trip to Houston I recall paying the local mall a visit, there were countless stores with clothing listing in the 2/3+ thousand dollar level. I've seen this in other high-end malls / strips in US cities as well.
I just don't think Canada is at that level, simply put we have a smaller portion of the population that fits into that very high income earner category. On top that even when they do I think the cultural is different in Canada some way or another.

Depends where you are in Canada. I find that you can get most stuff here in Toronto that you see in the USA. In fact every time I go in American stores I always see the exact same stuff I see at stores in Toronto.
Of course there is some difference. But overall the USA does not have all this different stuff like they used to, because almost all our stores are American now.

Like I said before. I remember going to the USA and there being all these different stores. Now when we go, if there are two or three different stores in the malls that we don't have in Toronto, its a lot.

On top of that, who really goes and buys $2,000 shirts here. Why are we so obsessed with all these stores that sell stuff we probably will never buy?

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

You'd be surprised Taal, there are plenty of people in Canada that spend money on luxury and can afford it in Canada. Bloomindales and Nordstrom aren't high HIGH! end luxury

I find that Nordstroms and Bloomingdales for their supposed high end image, operate way too many small branch stores in malls across the United States.
These branch stores don't feel special or offer the selection you would expect from a high end store.

Holt Renfrew seems to still have this high end cache, because they have few locations, and these locations are big and offer a unique shopping experience(save for the tiny suburban Toronto stores).
Same when I was in Italy. La Rinescente only had stores in the city centres of the major cities, and these stores were for the most part big and really classy.

The issue with all these American stores coming here is that they could further suburbanize Canada.
Until about a decade or so ago, stores in Canada would always operate their flagship stores in the downtown area or open their first store in the downtown. Now we have these American stores coming up here and building flagship stores or opening their first stores in the suburbs.
These stores just do not have the respect for downtowns.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I find that Nordstroms and Bloomingdales for their supposed high end image, operate way too many small branch stores in malls across the United States.
These branch stores don't feel special or offer the selection you would expect from a high end store.

Holt Renfrew seems to still have this high end cache, because they have few locations, and these locations are big and offer a unique shopping experience(save for the tiny suburban Toronto stores).
Same when I was in Italy. La Rinescente only had stores in the city centres of the major cities, and these stores were for the most part big and really classy.

The issue with all these American stores coming here is that they could further suburbanize Canada.
Until about a decade or so ago, stores in Canada would always operate their flagship stores in the downtown area or open their first store in the downtown. Now we have these American stores coming up here and building flagship stores or opening their first stores in the suburbs.
These stores just do not have the respect for downtowns.

I don't blame the stores entirely - I blame the sales teams at the companies that own these suburban power centers.

I can see their pitch including the following: "Our market research (probably with a sample size of under 30 people, all located in Vaughan, Mississauga, and Aurora) shows that despite rising gas prices, today's Canadian consumers want to drive for miles and miles to go shopping, they do not want to shop in their own neighbourhoods, and they absolutely hate pedestrian-oriented downtown shopping. Why would you want to locate where your customers are located? That's what cash loan businesses, dollar stores, and tattoo parlours do!"

[north 42]

I think it's great that many more upscale retailers from the US are coming to Canada, but being from Windsor, it's not a big deal, since we already have all these retailers within a few km of our city in metro Detroit. You can't beat the Somerset Collection in Troy Michigan for upscale shopping and prices.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by north 42

I think it's great that many more upscale retailers from the US are coming to Canada, but being from Windsor, it's not a big deal, since we already have all these retailers within a few km of our city in metro Detroit. You can't beat the Somerset Collection in Troy Michigan for upscale shopping and prices.

How many of us really shop at high end stores? Really, what we need is better middle class stores again.

The odd time I do high end shopping, its an experience, and I want the best. And that usually means going downtown to the Bloor Street area which not only has the chains but also the unique one of a kind family owned stores.

I spent like $195.00 on a dress shirt not long ago. I did not buy it from any chain store which has made in China shirts that are found in every high end store in North America. I actually got a really nice shirt from a Toronto shirt maker who has as a store on Bloor. The shirt is made in Toronto, and I have one of only two shirts with that pattern in Toronto.

I was also at an event and my uncle had this amazing ring on. He did not get it at some chain store. He got it custom made at a jewelry store downtown.
It is unique and basically no one else will have the design he has.

The chain stores are fine and do offer stuff to and I do shop at them. But really, if you are looking for super high end, are you really going to go buy something made in China that can be found in every high end mall in the world? Or are you going to go get something unique?

And when it comes to that unique cache, these American stores opening branches everywhere, really takes away from the cache of even going there.


Plus American stores used to be great when they focused on their amazing downtown flagships. But really after visiting Europe, our stores can't hold a candle to the big European stores. Of course the European stores don't have branches everywhere.

[miketoronto]

Further to all these American stores coming here.

My friend sent me an article from England, which for some reason the link no longer works for on the internet. But basically it talked about how England's main streets have so many chains now, that they are all carbon copies of each other. This carbon copy issue is actually leading to the prediction that 40% of stores on England's main streets will close over the next 10 years.

The article took the spin that this is not a bad thing, because it will mean unique one of a kind business can once again be able to afford rents on main streets and help create unique shopping destinations again.

[MolsonExport]

Didn't you notice that when you started talking, eventually I started reading the vomit bag?

http://www.hark.com/clips/txnvfhdhnb...nt-enjoying-it

[north 42]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

How many of us really shop at high end stores? Really, what we need is better middle class stores again.

The odd time I do high end shopping, its an experience, and I want the best. And that usually means going downtown to the Bloor Street area which not only has the chains but also the unique one of a kind family owned stores.

I spent like $195.00 on a dress shirt not long ago. I did not buy it from any chain store which has made in China shirts that are found in every high end store in North America. I actually got a really nice shirt from a Toronto shirt maker who has as a store on Bloor. The shirt is made in Toronto, and I have one of only two shirts with that pattern in Toronto.

I was also at an event and my uncle had this amazing ring on. He did not get it at some chain store. He got it custom made at a jewelry store downtown.
It is unique and basically no one else will have the design he has.

The chain stores are fine and do offer stuff to and I do shop at them. But really, if you are looking for super high end, are you really going to go buy something made in China that can be found in every high end mall in the world? Or are you going to go get something unique?

And when it comes to that unique cache, these American stores opening branches everywhere, really takes away from the cache of even going there.


Plus American stores used to be great when they focused on their amazing downtown flagships. But really after visiting Europe, our stores can't hold a candle to the big European stores. Of course the European stores don't have branches everywhere.

My husband and I shop in high end stores, though we buy much of our clothes now online. 90% of my wardrobe is Diesel, so only high end stores carry it. I can't wear cheap clothes, it doesn't look or feel right. I think most gay men will agree with me on this.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Although rumour has it that they will, no? I love Nordstrom.

No, Nordstrom is looking to lease space in prime markets, not to buy out leases. They are tenants not landlords.

Originally Posted by miketoronto

The U.S. stores sell almost the exact same stuff for the most part that you will find in Holt Renfrew and The Bay. Except Holt renfrew might have some different really expensive brands.

In fact Holt Renfrew would be even more upscale than Bloomingdales and Nordstroms in most cases(save for the flagship Bloomingdales in NYC).
I would say Holt Renfrew can give these stores a run for their money and really has a class and style that these stores don't have. And part of it comes from Holt Renfrew only having a couple stores, where the American ones can be found everywhere, and have boring small suburban stores, instead of nice large downtown stores like Holt Renfrew generally has.
Holt Renfrew also partners with places from England and Europe, to bring in interesting food items, etc. Really sets it apart.

Miketoronto is definitely right, Holts is a step ahead of Bloomingdales or Nordstrom. It is more on par with Neimann Marcus in the States.

Originally Posted by Gerrard

They are shopping them.

No, no they are not. Any Sears lease Nordstrom would be interested in, outside of Toronto, has already been bought out by Cadillac Fairview. And Nordstrom has different plans for Toronto.

News will be coming out mid June.

[Nouvellecosse]

Not sure why Toronto needs more American stores to get more variety. Montreal has 5 department stores downtown - none of which are American (Les Ailes, Simons, Ogilvy, Holt's, and The Bay) - compared to 4 in Toronto, 1 being American (Sears) and two being the same thing (The Bay).

As far as the actual products being sold in the US but not in Canada, you don't need new American retailers to get the products into Canada. You just need buyers at incumbent stores who think the products would be popular in our market and wholesalers/distributors capable of providing them. When products are not available in our market, it's more common that either the manufacturer has not enough capacity to enter the market, that there is no distributor capable of delivering it, or that retailers have chosen not to offer it due to the price point not being be compatible with our market (sometimes due to price increases caused by shipping/duties etc.)

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Not sure why Toronto needs more American stores to get more variety. Montreal has 5 department stores downtown - none of which are American (Les Ailes, Simons, Ogilvy, Holt's, and The Bay) - compared to 4 in Toronto, 1 being American (Sears) and two being the same thing (The Bay).

I agree. Canada used to have proud retail stores that could take on the best in the world, and we have let most of that slide.

Up until the American retail takeover of the 90s, we had a thriving Canadian retail landscape.

This issue will probably correct itself, as these huge chain stores are killing themselves off with too much expansion anyway.

[MolsonExport]

^If you are right, do you expect this fate to befall Walfart?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^If you are right, do you expect this fate to befall Walfart?

I suspect when all the restaurants are Taco Bell, all the department stores will be Walmart!