Western Expresso

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by drew

I heard yesterday (from a fairly reliable source, so take this as a rumour) that MPI is working on a three year time frame for implementing mandatory winter tires in Manitoba.

Cars will not get a safety if they are driven during the winter months without winter tires - or something to that effect.

Manitoba seems like a logical place to require winter tires. We have them on our cars - I am a huge proponent of using them.

What do other people think?

It just means that MPI will also include "all-weather tires" like the Nokian WGR3s (which perform well in snow and ice) and people who typically run all-seasons will just switch to "all-weathers".

It is what I will be doing considering my car gets about 2000 km of use in the winter. A separate set of tires for the little I drive in the winter months is a waste of money and rubber. Given my driving usage, the tires will crack and harden before the tread life runs out.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, I'd say that the time has come. In this climate it's a reasonable thing to do. I'm sure that the announcement, when it comes, will be met with the usual Manitoba willingness to embrace positive change (LOL) but obviously MPI will account for that factor in its plan. Looks like they're already starting to phase it in with the loan program.

I am ashamed to admit that I don't have winter tires yet. Thing is I don't have a garage... part of the reason I've been stalling is because I don't like the thought of lugging them into the basement every spring. People in condos and apartments will face a similar issue. Someone with extra warehouse space could probably make a tidy sum by offering to store winter tires... does such a thing exist already?

I've seen a number of auto shops offer storage when you get them to switch the tires back and forth.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

Someone with extra warehouse space could probably make a tidy sum by offering to store winter tires... does such a thing exist already?

Kal Tire has been advertising a "tire resort" or something to that effect as a place to store tires. It's a good business model as it forces the consumer to have their tires changed over (seasonally) where they bought them.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by drew

I heard yesterday (from a fairly reliable source, so take this as a rumour) that MPI is working on a three year time frame for implementing mandatory winter tires in Manitoba.

Cars will not get a safety if they are driven during the winter months without winter tires - or something to that effect.

Manitoba seems like a logical place to require winter tires. We have them on our cars - I am a huge proponent of using them.

What do other people think?

It does seem like a logical move for safety reasons, cost of course is the factor.
Similar to cars requiring Immobilizers, it brought down car thefts but they covered the cost on that move.

Only thing is, I've never used them on any vehicle I've owned in Manitoba. Truck, mid-size, compact etc. Maybe I've been lucky but, no Winter snow related accidents yet. Knock on Wood.

[esquire]

Thanks for the info regarding storage at the tire shop. Good stuff. But hotwired's comment is especially intriguing... I don't think my car gets more than maybe around 3,000 km max on it from December to the end of March. If there is an alternative to having a different set of winter tires, I'll certainly consider it.

[Riverman]

On the subject of mandatory winter tires, I believe it is a good idea. Even though I drive my DD very little in winter I still have snow & ice tires on steelies on it now. The soft compounds and tread designs offered today give incredible grip compared to all-season tires. Not to mention changing over to a winter set preserves your factory aluminum wheels which tend to be destroyed by road salt.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Only thing is, I've never used them on any vehicle I've owned in Manitoba. Truck, mid-size, compact etc. Maybe I've been lucky but, no Winter snow related accidents yet. Knock on Wood.

AWD and winter tires are great, but they are no substitute for driving to conditions. I've never had winter tires before and driven through all sorts of terrible winter conditions, never a problem knock on wood. But that said, I won't complain if winter (or "all-weather") tires become mandatory.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Best purchase ever for me was Nokian WRG3 which are all-season, but actually exceed Transport Canada's recommendations for winter. They are awesome.

While mandating winter tires is good, teaching better driving is also necessary because the trick with winter tires is: they get you going faster, but that increase in acceleration is not actually equal to the improvement in braking. You still need to drive appropriately.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

If there is an alternative to having a different set of winter tires, I'll certainly consider it.

It really is incredible what a difference a specialized set of tires makes. I recently switched my autocross car over to a set of Dunlop Direzza II tires, the stickiest allowed in the class I race in. The level of grip is astounding compared to the performance touring tires I had on there before.

Anytime a tire is designed for a specific purpose, as the topic here, cold weather grip, the benefit far outweighs the cost. All you have to do it avoid hitting something (or someone) once to make the purchase worthwhile.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by h0twired

It just means that MPI will also include "all-weather tires" like the Nokian WGR3s (which perform well in snow and ice) and people who typically run all-seasons will just switch to "all-weathers".

It is what I will be doing considering my car gets about 2000 km of use in the winter. A separate set of tires for the little I drive in the winter months is a waste of money and rubber. Given my driving usage, the tires will crack and harden before the tread life runs out.

Good points. Some car owners just don't do as much Highway driving for example. Low km usage during the winter months for whatever reason is another consideration.

Implement the requirement depending on your driving record, see how that one flies. Maybe people would drive more to the road conditions rather than their personal schedule?

EDIT: Popular topic, too many posts to reply to before you can answer a question that's already been answered..that's good..

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by drew

I heard yesterday (from a fairly reliable source, so take this as a rumour) that MPI is working on a three year time frame for implementing mandatory winter tires in Manitoba.

Cars will not get a safety if they are driven during the winter months without winter tires - or something to that effect.

Manitoba seems like a logical place to require winter tires. We have them on our cars - I am a huge proponent of using them.

What do other people think?

I have all-wheel-drive and put on about 18K kliks per year. My vehicle also requires 20" tires and I have the maximum amount of merits. Is MPI going to give me $1200 to buy the winter tires I've proven I don't need?

Or are they going to discount my insurance at the same rate?

[drew]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I have all-wheel-drive and put on about 18K kliks per year. My vehicle also requires 20" tires and I have the maximum amount of merits. Is MPI going to give me $1200 to buy the winter tires I've proven I don't need?

Or are they going to discount my insurance at the same rate?

I am not sure of the specifics.

If you have never driven on a set of dedicated winter tires, you have no idea how much of a difference they make. It is incredible. Your skill level as a driver is irrelevant. Your traction in all conditions will be in the order of 30% greater or more.

In any event, I think the fact the program will be tied into the vehicle safety certificate - it means until you sell your current car, you won't need the tires. Any new car you buy, will have them.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by drew

I am not sure of the specifics.

If you have never driven on a set of dedicated winter tires, you have no idea how much of a difference they make. It is incredible. Your skill level as a driver is irrelevant. Your traction in all conditions will be in the order of 30% greater or more.

In any event, I think the fact the program will be tied into the vehicle safety certificate - it means until you sell your current car, you won't need the tires. Any new car you buy, will have them.

Oh, I see where you're coming from on this, I'm just being kinda facetious about the whole thing. The point I'm making is that it's harmful policy across the board so MPI doesn't put themselves in the position to tell the people who actually need them to get them.

The reason I remarked on my AWD and kliks driven was that the odds are in my favour. I don't drive very much - especially in the winter - and my AWD is obviously enough given that I don't have an accident problem. Putting winter tires on my vehicle is just undue harm. If I have 10 demerits and rear-ended three people over the last 5 winters and put my car on the median three more, I should be mandated to have winter tires because I've proven I can't drive. Instead, I'll be forced to buy winter tires I don't need for driving conditions on roads I'll barely go just so MPI doesn't give the appearance of discriminating against 'bad' drivers on what might be considered arbitrary terms.

Like anything, if MPI thinks their total payouts will decrease because I have winter tires, that should be their investment in their bottom line.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I have all-wheel-drive and put on about 18K kliks per year. My vehicle also requires 20" tires and I have the maximum amount of merits. Is MPI going to give me $1200 to buy the winter tires I've proven I don't need?

Or are they going to discount my insurance at the same rate?

On this particular point only, I'm at the max. amount in insurance savings and license discount allowable as well. But one foul up and you could lose 10-20 years of your clean driving and lose 5% of your savings in a second.

The system just doesn't reward good drivers as it should. If your clear for 10-20 yrs, the discount rate should increase, not stop at a predetermined level.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Cyro

On this particular point only, I'm at the max. amount in insurance savings and license discount allowable as well. But one foul up and you could lose 10-20 years of your clean driving and lose 5% of your savings in a second.

The system just doesn't reward good drivers as it should. If your clear for 10-20 yrs, the discount rate should increase, not stop at a predetermined level.

Like anything that's been socialized, there are no rewards for being at the high end, only the low...

[bomberjet]

I am a supporter of winter tires. Had them on my last two vehicles. Just got my current vehicle and bought brand new all season's. So I'm going to give it a go this winter with my regular Goodyear's. Probably get winter's for next season. I noticed it made a huge difference.

One thing that will be interesting, even with the loan thing, is the lower income folks with vehicles. If one can barely afford to have a vehicle, now add on winter tires to the cost. I could see a lot of frauds coming out of this.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Like anything that's been socialized, there are no rewards for being at the high end, only the low...

Accurate and to the point. Unfortunate though..

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I am a supporter of winter tires. Had them on my last two vehicles. Just got my current vehicle and bought brand new all season's. So I'm going to give it a go this winter with my regular Goodyear's. Probably get winter's for next season. I noticed it made a huge difference.

If you do get winter tires there is no reason to use all-season tires as they are the worst all around because they are a compromise. Shop for summer performance tires instead - quieter and with better wet and dry traction.

[bomberjet]

Thanks for the tip.

Come to think of it. I only had winters on my last car (Prelude), just went through two sets as one set got destroyed. I had performance tires and rims for the summer and used the steel Honda rims for my winter tires. At least I think they were steel. Grey, 5 spoke Honda rims.

I got the new Goodyear Eagle's in the States this summer for $600 installed with balancing, etc, which I thought was pretty darn good. Almost had a blowout near Sturgis, but stopped in time thank goodness. Car was a wee bit overloaded from the trip I guess and wore out the inside of one back tire. Only one though, wore through the metal and everything. Other tire wasn't bad at all.

Should maybe check the suspension when I get the car back from MPI. Some guy on Kenaston decided he wasn't waiting for the light to change anymore at NB Taylor, pulled out right in front me me while I was doing 80 approaching in the right turn lane on Kenaston at Taylor below the underpass. Thanks man, then tries to blame me for not stopping, MPI even told me it was hilarious.

Edit: To add, my tires were barely safetyable when i bought the car in July.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Best purchase ever for me was Nokian WRG3 which are all-season, but actually exceed Transport Canada's recommendations for winter. They are awesome.

While mandating winter tires is good, teaching better driving is also necessary because the trick with winter tires is: they get you going faster, but that increase in acceleration is not actually equal to the improvement in braking. You still need to drive appropriately.

I had Nokian WRG2 (previous generation of the WRG3) on my last car and thought they were great. This fall I bought a new vehicle and decided to go to winter-only Michelin X-Ice tires. Acknowledging that they are different cars (but both FWD), I was was shocked at how much better the X-Ice were compared to the WRG2. The improvement from all weather to winter only was about the same as the improvement from all season to all weather. I know this should have been expected, but it did surprise me as I though the WRG2s were giving me great winter traction.

I also fully agree with the comments about winter driving skills. I do have some concern that people immediately blame thier poor winter driving on lack of proper winter tires. It is stil the driver's responsibility to drive in accoradance with conditions and equipment. Too many people are quick to exclaim that they wouldn't have had the accident if they'd been driving on winter tires when, in reality, they wouldn't have had the accident if they were driving within their capability.