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  #2381  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:21 PM
Urban_Sky Urban_Sky is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
VIA’s plan was to send a rescue train, but it failed because it’s crew’s hours expired and regulations prohibited them from continuing to work until they had 12 hours rest and VIA didn’t seem to have a plan B.
It usually takes not much more than 4 hours to send a rescue train from MMC to Cobourg. If it didn’t arrive within the 12-hour limit, I wouldn’t necessarily blame understaffing as the primary cause…

On a side note, a break of 6 hours (8 hours, if at the home terminal) is sufficient to reset the counter…
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  #2382  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:20 PM
Proof Sheet Proof Sheet is offline
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VIA’s plan was to send a rescue train, but it failed because it’s crew’s hours expired and regulations prohibited them from continuing to work until they had 12 hours rest and VIA didn’t seem to have a plan B.

And who says that unions are inflexible.
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  #2383  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:50 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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And who says that unions are inflexible.
Those are Transport Canada fatigue management rules. Not union requirements.
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  #2384  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 2:10 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Those are Transport Canada fatigue management rules. Not union requirements.
TC allows shift extensions of four hours in emergency situations.

emergency situation means a sudden or unforeseen situation where injury or harm has been sustained, or could reasonably be sustained to employee(s), passenger(s), the public or the environment such as those involving a casualty or unavoidable accident, an Act of God, severe storms, major earthquakes, washouts, derailments or where there has been a delay resulting from a cause not known to the railway company at the time employees leave the terminal and which could not have been foreseen
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  #2385  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 4:33 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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TC allows shift extensions of four hours in emergency situations.

emergency situation means a sudden or unforeseen situation where injury or harm has been sustained, or could reasonably be sustained to employee(s), passenger(s), the public or the environment such as those involving a casualty or unavoidable accident, an Act of God, severe storms, major earthquakes, washouts, derailments or where there has been a delay resulting from a cause not known to the railway company at the time employees leave the terminal and which could not have been foreseen
A crew being dispatched in this case would be out there for well beyond the 4 hr extension required. I see it from an aviation perspective. But zero chance any airline or even the military would break crew day for this. The risk isn't worthwhile.
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  #2386  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 5:06 PM
johnnystims johnnystims is offline
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HSR would be nice. I want!!!!
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  #2387  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 4:14 PM
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What we can learn about the future of rail from its past
Rail travel used to be like taking a 'flying palace,' but now it's hard to get where you want to go

Philip Drost · CBC Radio
Posted: Jan 01, 2023 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 7 hours ago




The train used to be a romantic and luxurious mode of transportation, with companies competing for passengers. But in the last century, cars and airplanes have edged out an option that — with the right investment and infrastructure — could be a cheaper and greener alternative in Canada.

Cuts to Via Rail routes over the years, however, mean that the investment would have to be significant, says Anthony Perl, a professor at Simon Fraser University and member of Via's board from 2008 to 2012.

As he points out, a train might not even get you where you want to go right now due to budget and route cuts. And Canada doesn't have the high speed trains — used across Europe and elsewhere — that have made the industry competitive elsewhere.

"Passenger rail is a cheaper, more efficient, more environmentally friendly way to move people," Perl said.

But "the experience has ebbed and flowed," with the golden age of train travel now close to 100 years in the rearview mirror, thanks to public investment shifting to highways and the airline industry.

There was a time when companies were competing for who could provide the most glamorous first-class experience.

In 1906, the Globe and Mail described the Muskoka Express, which took passengers from Toronto to cottage country north of the city, as "a flying palace."

"You were ushered to a seat pretty well immediately, with linen, with flowers, with people smiling and taking your order in English or French and generally showing you a good time," said Harry Gow, a passenger train advocate with Transport Action Canada.

Local train travel was innovative, too. At the start of the 20th century, several companies ran commuter trains between Hamilton, Toronto and the surrounding small towns — and much of the infrastructure was electric, said Ryan Katz-Rosene, a University of Ottawa professor who studies rail infrastructure and climate change.

"If we had just gone more in that direction, we would be living in an alternate universe where we feasibly could have decarbonized."

But instead, governments invested in highways — and the automobile became king of the commute.

As a result, passenger numbers started to plummet in the 1920s. In 1920, according to statistics published in the Globe and Mail at the time, about 51 million people took trains in Canada. Within five years, 10 million fewer people were riding annually.

People loved the freedom that came with owning a vehicle. But it was cheap gasoline following the Second World War that cemented the demise of passenger rail, Gow said, because people believed the car was the cheaper way to travel.

"Maybe they forgot the overall cost, like insurance, oil maintenance, amortization of the loan that you took out to buy the car," Gow said. "But people didn't count that. All they counted was the cost of gas, so they thought it was cheaper than the train."

And the car had help. In 1946, the federal government created a special law to help build highways in provinces.

Still, small communities wanted passenger trains — and Via Rail was introduced as the public solution.

The federal government established Via Rail as a Crown corporation in 1977.

Before long, both Liberal and Conservative governments made cuts to the rail company. In 1989, federal Transport Minister Benoît Bouchard announced roughly $1 billion in cuts to Via over five years, which translated into route cuts across the country.

And although some politicians supported the idea of rail service in the late '90s and early 2000s, the sentiment wasn't widespread, said David Collenette, the Liberal transportation minister from 1997 to 2003.

"You've had a mindset … to say, 'Oh well, people will drive and people will fly. So you can close that service. You can close that route,'" he said. "And unfortunately, we are now playing catch up."

Though Collenette pushed for Ottawa to invest hundreds of millions into Via over his tenure, he said it all went to maintenance and repairs — and nothing was done to improve services.

The privatization in 1995 of CN Rail, formerly a Crown corporation, didn't help either as it acquired both trains and tracks, effectively creating a monopoly since Via has to pay to use the rail line, Perl said.

It's one reason why Via trains can be late — the company's trains are sitting on the tracks waiting to yield to CN's. And it shows: the corporation's on-time performance was 72 per cent in 2021.

Shoshanna Saxe says passenger train service is a critical piece of infrastructure for Canada, but its revival will require time and funding.

"Good train travel can carry lots of people near and far distances quickly, affordably, in comfort, with very little pollution," said Saxe, an associate professor at the University of Toronto and the Canada Research Chair in Sustainable Infrastructure.

But its future is far from guaranteed, she said.

"You can always change directions, but it's like changing a big ship — if it's a lot of momentum in one direction, it's hard," said Saxe. "We're not going to build a European-quality train system in one year, but the only way to fix the problem is to start fixing it."

Produced by Craig Desson

AUDIO: Can Canada get on board with passenger train travel? (Jan. 1, 2023)

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whatonearth...nada-1.6681160
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  #2388  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2023, 11:00 PM
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Travel is in disarray, and Ottawa is not likely to be much help
It's almost impossible to make a bus more attractive than a train. But Via Rail has managed it

Chris Selley, National Post
Published Jan 07, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 4 minute read


Canadian travellers are mad as hell, and let’s face it, they’ll probably take it some more, but in the meantime MPs are vowing to get some straight answers from Via, the developed world’s worst passenger-rail carrier, and Sunwing, Canada’s suspiciously cheap holiday airline.

Liberal MP Peter Schiefke, chair of the Commons transportation and infrastructure committee, promises to put representatives from both carriers on the stand to answer for the latest round of chaos: Via passengers on the Windsor-to-Quebec City corridor were stranded for as long as 24 hours in the midst of a yuletide blizzard, with inadequate access to food, water, sanitation and information; and Sunwing sent hundreds of passengers on holiday to Mexico and Cuba, apparently with no idea how to bring them home again.

The Conservatives want Transport Minister Omar Alghabra on the stand as well, and he says he’s game. Alghabra has already vowed to strengthen the Air Passenger Protection Regulations with respect to the treatment, refunds and compensation owed jilted passengers.

The latter is a semi-plausible development, and in theory relatively simple. Last month, passenger rights advocate Gabor Lukács submitted a 29-page document to the committee explaining how to fix the regulations. It is usefully summarized as follows: Copy the European Union’s regulations.

It might just be crazy enough to work. But it was no accident Canadians wound up with crummy passenger protections in the first place. Lukácks and others warned throughout their drafting and implementation that they were considerably weaker than their American and European counterparts, and might even make things worse. The government implemented them anyway.

Twenty years after Jean Chrétien’s scandal-laden government banned corporate donations in federal politics, Ottawa far too often behaves as if it’s in thrall to Canada’s largest companies. Sometimes it seems like the worse the companies’ customer service (see: telecommunications), the stronger the thrall. It’s easy to imagine this government “compromising” yet again when it says it’s putting its foot down.

Which brings us to Via, which the Crown actually owns. On that front, there is considerably less hope.

Via clearly has some rudimentary work to do on crisis management: food, water, toilets, communications. Hours into the crisis, nobody at Via even seemed to have gotten out of bed. Screens in stations gave inaccurate information. It was a clown show.

Having done this rudimentary work, in theory, Via might then provide edible food and functional Wi-Fi. It could run its train stations like train stations, rather than like airports for some reason. (Via actually weighs your baggage and threatens to send you home if it’s overweight.)

Alas, Via trains would still then be lumbering along tracks owned by CN, subservient to every freight train, and almost always late as a result. It still wouldn’t be a service for people who have any pecuniary interest in actually getting to Point B from Point A.

Via wasn’t exactly knocking it out of the park before the Christmas blizzard. The after-work trains from Toronto to Ottawa depart at 5:32 p.m. and 6:32 p.m.; they are scheduled to take four hours and 40 minutes, which is roughly how long it takes to drive. And in the week before Christmas, their on-time performance was zero per cent. The longest delay was 56 minutes, the average 26 minutes.

Fingers crossed, you won’t find me on one of those trains ever again. Some rare good news on the travel front came recently from the Pacific Western Group of Companies, whose premium Red Arrow bus brand just set up shop between Toronto and Ottawa. I haven’t yet had the pleasure, but Albertans reliably rave about this service: 2-1 seating with lots of legroom, Wi-Fi that works, streaming media, satellite radio, free snacks and refreshments. At five hours and 10 minutes, the trip is no slower than Via is in real life; and at $69 each way, it’s an absolute steal.

It’s almost impossible to make a bus more attractive than a train. But Via has managed it.

The company’s only real hope of salvation is the $6-to-$12-billion “high-frequency rail” (HFR) plan that the Liberals in Ottawa seem increasingly serious about pursuing. Its greatest promise is reliability: Trains would run (mostly) on dedicated tracks using rights-of-way between Toronto and Ottawa via Peterborough, and between Montreal and Quebec City via Trois-Rivières. No more waiting on sidings for more important freight to pass.

Reliability is great. Speed matters too, though. HFR is certainly not the car-killer, the airline-killer, the emissions-reduction powerhouse that its proponents claim. If it knocks 90 minutes off the average trip between Ottawa and Toronto, as promised, that will turn some heads: Three hours and 10 minutes is definitely competitive with flying. If it only knocks the promised 50 minutes off the average five hour and 10 minute trip between Montreal and Toronto, however, flying will still make the most sense for almost all business travellers.

Better is always possible in Canada, as Justin Trudeau likes to say. But the status quo is always the safest bet, and worse is always in with a shot. Canadians pining for a relatively stress-free holiday can only reasonably conclude, as ever, that it’s much better to drive if at all possible.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/tra...nment-wont-fix
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  #2389  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2023, 2:13 PM
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Problems with VIA over the holiday were largely due to a derailed CN train. Feds should be questioning CN for the derailment and delays, and themselves for never providing a dedicated RoW to VIA.

Frustrating how if VIA experiences delays of cancelations a few times over one weekend, people quickly give up on the train, but when it comes to constant delays and cancellations on flights, and overbookings, people get pissed but never give up flying or change airlines.

Same with highways, with major delays and accidents. No one ever claims the 401 is a failure or calls for its demolition even though we see delays constantly over the winter.
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  #2390  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2023, 7:28 PM
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VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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^^

Why do they never tack on the two hours you have to be at the airport prior to your flight, the pain of going through security, then waiting for your bags after you get off, also the crowded conditions on the plane and having to pay for shitty Wifi.
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  #2391  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2023, 7:51 PM
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^^

Why do they never tack on the two hours you have to be at the airport prior to your flight, the pain of going through security, then waiting for your bags after you get off, also the crowded conditions on the plane and having to pay for shitty Wifi.
Not just that, but they try to imitate airlines by forcing people to wait for "boarding" in the terminal and line up at the "gates"
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  #2392  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2023, 9:06 PM
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Via Rail offers apologies, compensation after holiday travel chaos
CEO says service didn't meet its own standards or rider expectations

CBC News
Posted: Jan 10, 2023 1:12 PM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago


Via Rail's president and CEO has released a statement apologizing for cancellations, delays and stranded trains around Christmas in southern Ontario and Quebec, saying the service didn't meet its own standards or rider expectations.

Train service was severely disrupted in the Windsor, Ont., to Quebec City corridor from Dec. 23 to 26, and outright cancelled on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

A storm hit Dec. 23, then a CN train derailment on Dec. 24 near Grafton, Ont., shut down a stretch of track that left passengers trapped aboard trains for hours.

CBC News heard from passengers describing cramped conditions, out-of-service bathrooms, and a lack of food and water.

A statement released at noon ET Tuesday, and credited to president and CEO Martin R. Landry, contained multiple apologies.

"We appreciate that passengers were looking forward to holiday celebrations and family get-togethers, and we regret that for many, those plans were disrupted. We didn't meet your expectations and for that we apologize," the statement said.

Via Rail should have better shared information about delays, the statement added, and better supported passengers on those trains.

Passengers whose trains were "completely immobilized" are getting travel credits, Via Rail said Tuesday. It was already announced full refunds should be automatically given for passengers whose trains were cancelled between Dec. 24 and 26.

The company is also hiring outside experts to review planning and response for the storm, as well as customer care and communications.

"Beyond not having met the expectations of our customers, we have not lived up to our own standards," the statement said.

"Despite weather events and a freight train derailment beyond our control, it is clear that lessons will be learned, and changes will be made."

Members of the House of Commons transport committee said last week they want to hear from Landry about the holiday trouble, along with the CEO of Sunwing airlines.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tion-1.6709083
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  #2393  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2023, 11:24 PM
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Not just that, but they try to imitate airlines by forcing people to wait for "boarding" in the terminal and line up at the "gates"
No one is forcing you to line up at the gate. I remain seated until they call for boarding. With reserved seating and plenty of luggage space there is no need to be the first on board. People who form a queue before hand are just being sheep.
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  #2394  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 2:40 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Interesting take from somebody familiar with train travel.

Video Link
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  #2395  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 1:29 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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I believe the queuing was explained before, as a problem with platform space at places like Union. Hopefully, part of HFR is resolving all the infrastructure constraints like this. I'd like to see fare gates to the paid passenger areas.

Dunno why VIA weighs bags. Wish they'd stop. It's pretty ridiculous. The rule should be simple. Unless you're actually handicapped, you should be able to handle your own luggage. The weight should be your problem.

Overall that video was actually positive on VIA. More than I would have been....
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  #2396  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 3:24 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Overall that video was actually positive on VIA. More than I would have been....
Europeans sometimes find Via quaint, like how a lot of people see a Mennonite horse and buggy.
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  #2397  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 3:26 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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I believe the queuing was explained before, as a problem with platform space at places like Union. Hopefully, part of HFR is resolving all the infrastructure constraints like this. I'd like to see fare gates to the paid passenger areas.
That may be the reason, but GO boards trains close to 1000 pax from the same platforms, so it is not necessarily a good reason.

Also, it is not clear to me how herding all of the passengers onto the platform at the same time is better than letting them trickle on.

Last edited by acottawa; Jan 23, 2023 at 3:59 PM.
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  #2398  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 5:07 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Europeans sometimes find Via quaint, like how a lot of people see a Mennonite horse and buggy.
Good analogy. You can still buy tickets online and show your QR code for Amish attractions.

I can accept we don't want to spend the money for a modernized system but the luggage and lineup thing is such a self goal. Lots of the busy European train stations at major airports have equally narrow platforms. Yes it gets squishy but the whole convoluted process is ridiculous.
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  #2399  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 5:42 PM
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That may be the reason, but GO boards trains close to 1000 pax from the same platforms, so it is not necessarily a good reason.

Also, it is not clear to me how herding all of the passengers onto the platform at the same time is better than letting them trickle on.
GO checks tickets onboard and is general seating. They also make people wait in the concourse until just before departure - once the train is in the station. With Via there is staff checking tickets and directing people to reserved seating, business class passengers, checked baggage etc, so there are differences.

Put me down as someone who doesn’t care about lining up. If you don’t want to line up, just sit in the cafe until the line is gone and walk onto the train. I just did that in Montreal this week and it’s quite civilized.

For me the biggest issue (apart from no dedicated track) is that they have too few departures. I’ve gone to Montreal and Toronto frequently, and the trains are always packed. They could clearly run more trips at key times.
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  #2400  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 5:57 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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GO checks tickets onboard and is general seating. They also make people wait in the concourse until just before departure - once the train is in the station. With Via there is staff checking tickets and directing people to reserved seating, business class passengers, checked baggage etc, so there are differences.

Put me down as someone who doesn’t care about lining up. If you don’t want to line up, just sit in the cafe until the line is gone and walk onto the train. I just did that in Montreal this week and it’s quite civilized.

For me the biggest issue (apart from no dedicated track) is that they have too few departures. I’ve gone to Montreal and Toronto frequently, and the trains are always packed. They could clearly run more trips at key times.
Checked baggage (where available) is a different line.
If you don’t line up you can’t get your bag weighed and there are further delays. If you have a carry on or backpack it is probably ok.
The last go I took the train arrived after people were advised of the platform.
Business class passengers are herded separately. But everywhere else in the world business class passengers just get on the train.
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