Broadway Corridor Updates

[jollyburger]

For anyone not familiar with Canderel. They're building those 56/43 storey towers across from City of Lougheed and they are behind Luxe Lansdowne.

https://storeys.com/canderels-burnab...rs-north-road/

Section 11.1.7 of the Broadway Plan requires a separation setback of 12.2 m (40') to the
property line in order to achieve a 24.4 m (80') total separation from a potential future
tower on an adjacent site. This separation has not been provided to the east of the site
as analysis demonstrates that consolidation and redevelopment of the adjacent properties
at 1515-39 W 7th Ave would only result in a potential tower floorplate of approximately
324 sm (3,488 sf) which is well below the threshold considered to be economically viable.
Therefore it is assumed that a tower will not be constructed on the adjacent site and that
a tower separation setback from the east property line is not applicable for this rezoning
application.

Reason for the lower height and they also maxed out their 8.0 FSR?

The proposed height is the result of careful consideration of several detailed massing
studies with shadow analyses undertaken in an effort to limit shadow impact at the
nearby 6th and Fir Park that is located to the northwest.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Reason for the lower height and they also maxed out their 8.0 FSR?

They're proposing 8000sqft floorplates for the tower when 6500sqf is the max allowed in order to get the full allowable density.

[idunno]

I think the extra parking is for the cultural component (French Centre of some kind). But developers also still seem super reluctant to reduce parking for strata units unfortunately.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by idunno

I think the extra parking is for the cultural component (French Centre of some kind). But developers also still seem super reluctant to reduce parking for strata units unfortunately.

Probably because strata unit buyers want them.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by idunno

I think the extra parking is for the cultural component (French Centre of some kind). But developers also still seem super reluctant to reduce parking for strata units unfortunately.

Yes, developers think they need them, (adding $50k + to the development cost for every space, which gets passed on to the price, obviously). They're proposing 25 more spaces than required for the strata, and 19 less than required for the French cultural centre and offices.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, developers think they need them, (adding $50k + to the development cost for every space, which gets passed on to the price, obviously). They're proposing 25 more spaces than required for the strata, and 19 less than required for the French cultural centre and offices.

I expect developers are sophisticated enough to know their market. It's the buyers that "think" they need them.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I expect developers are sophisticated enough to know their market. It's the buyers that "think" they need them.

Could be, although they're relatively new in the region, and I think this is their first Vanccouver project. In Burnaby they seem to have a quite different perspective. To quote their senior vice-president "Parking ratios are falling dramatically — the single-occupancy vehicle is going the way of the dodo bird".

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by madog222

1551-1581 W 7th Ave

Anthem's 11 storey project 'Form' is across the alley to the northeast.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Could be, although they're relatively new in the region, and I think this is their first Vanccouver project. In Burnaby they seem to have a quite different perspective. To quote their senior vice-president "Parking ratios are falling dramatically — the single-occupancy vehicle is going the way of the dodo bird".

Yes, if you beggar the population enough they'll give up those cars. So much winning.

Vancouverites owe nearly six times national average in personal debt: report
Residents in Vancouver owe $360K in consumer debt per capita
Daisy Xiong
24 minutes ago

High housing prices and the increasing cost of living have left British Columbians mired in debt levels far exceeding the national average.

People in Vancouver owed an average of $360,683 in consumer debt in 2023, which includes housing mortgage, credit card debt, auto loan, student loan and other personal debt, according to a study released last month by personal finance platform Savvy New Canadians.

That’s the highest in Canada and almost six times the average Canadian consumer debt ($65,000). It’s also nearly double the debt per capita in Toronto ($187,350), ranking it third highest in the country....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/e...report-8016210

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, developers think they need them, (adding $50k + to the development cost for every space, which gets passed on to the price, obviously). They're proposing 25 more spaces than required for the strata, and 19 less than required for the French cultural centre and offices.

It's like 10000m2 of space over 5 levels and parking has around 6200m2 of space dedicated to it. The section next to Fir is also sort of wasted space that got repurposed into storage/bicycle parking.

There's around 30 spaces on the lower level but there's also 500m2 of residential storage they would lose. Maybe residential storage is just as important as parking these days.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Think of it as a litmus test - if the parking is half-empty most of the time, that's a sign to every other developer to build less.

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yes, if you beggar the population enough they'll give up those cars. So much winning.

Vancouverites owe nearly six times national average in personal debt: report

Ditching the $60k+ Mercedes SUV and $500/month on gas and insurance (to say nothing of parking) would definitely help reduce that. With six SkyTrain stations on Broadway, cars will be a luxury rather than a basic need.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It's like 10000m2 of space over 5 levels and parking has around 6200m2 of space dedicated to it. The section next to Fir is also sort of wasted space that got repurposed into storage/bicycle parking.

There's around 30 spaces on the lower level but there's also 500m2 of residential storage they would lose. Maybe residential storage is just as important as parking these days.

No doubt storage is important. That's why I've said they should have one standardized parking space for each unit built. If you don't have a car, there should be a standard fireproof storage unit that can be slotted in yet easily dismantled.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Think of it as a litmus test - if the parking is half-empty most of the time, that's a sign to every other developer to build less.



Ditching the $60k+ Mercedes SUV and $500/month on gas and insurance (to say nothing of parking) would definitely help reduce that. With six SkyTrain stations on Broadway, cars will be a luxury rather than a basic need.

Why assume that everyone living there works on that transit route?:
Life doesn't work that way especially in a household with two working people.

Do you know the places with highest vehicle ownership per capita?

Gibraltar
Guernsey
San Marino
Liechtenstein
Andorra
Monaco

All pretty compact.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Why assume that everyone living there works on that transit route?:
Life doesn't work that way especially in a household with two working people.

Do you know the places with highest vehicle ownership per capita?

Gibraltar
Guernsey
San Marino
Liechtenstein
Andorra
Monaco

All pretty compact.

Right, which is why that transit route connects to over a dozen bus routes that do take them to where they want to work. This is not the River District we're talking about.

All of the above save Gibraltar are slush fund city-states. You think most of the population actually lives there working 9 to 5? They don't drive a Toyota because they need to get to work, they drive multiple Porsches because they're on vacation and/or retired and they find it fun; the "West Van trust fund brat" mentality is a very bad fit for the rest of Vancouver.
As for Gibraltar, they've got a grand total of 21 buses and most of their vehicles are motorcycles; even with crappy transit service, they don't need cars either.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

No doubt storage is important. That's why I've said they should have one standardized parking space for each unit built. If you don't have a car, there should be a standard fireproof storage unit that can be slotted in yet easily dismantled.

That is an option any builder can do now.

It's just as expensive to build tho. Some folks (mostly renters as we're talking about the new Broadway towers) may pay extra for more storage space. The question is... is a whole level of parkade for storage worth it? I dunno yet.

However, it would make more sense to build what parking you think is possible (say 50- 60%) then over time convert it to storage on an as-needs basis.

[jollyburger]

Larco included a 126K self-storage facility for a North Vancouver project so it might sense even as a commercial project but with a certain size site/parkade depth.

https://vancouver.skyrisecities.com/...al-stock.41631

Seems like it's higher than 50K per stall now?

Construction of parking can add significant costs to a development project. At the current
minimum by-law requirements, the cost of constructing the underground parking levels for
apartment projects (including service areas such as mechanical rooms, loading areas, or
storage units) can exceed 20% of the total project construction costs.

Excluding any necessary underground areas not used for parking (e.g. pedestrian circulation,
service areas, mechanical rooms), the cost to construct an underground parking space is about
$60,000 to $80,000, but can increase to over $120,000 per stall depending on site size, layout
efficiency, or soil conditions.

Providing an additional level of underground parking has significant fixed costs, such as added elevator stops,
ramps, and building code exiting requirements. Because of this, developments tend to build out complete
levels of parking (rather than partial levels).
Based on our analysis of the dataset, although parking is often provided above bylaw requirements, it is
typically due to completing an underground parking level that is already needed to provide the number of
required spaces under the bylaw. So this results in the lowest level of parking being a full level rather than a
partial level.

For example, small sites2 are typically constrained in the amount parking
that can be provided per level, with ramping and circulation taking significant proportions of each level. So
parking at smaller sites is usually inefficient and construction costs are relatively high per stall.

It should be noted that these figures include the cost to create the other uses in the parking area such as
bicycle parking areas, storage, mechanical rooms, loading areas and pedestrian circulation. So, the cost
of the underground parking per stall includes more than just the parking stalls and drive aisles.

Appendix E has a good summary of the construction costs for parking.

https://council.vancouver.ca/2023111...ents/cfsc1.pdf

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, developers think they need them, (adding $50k + to the development cost for every space, which gets passed on to the price, obviously). They're proposing 25 more spaces than required for the strata, and 19 less than required for the French cultural centre and offices.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but weren't parking minimum requirements recently abolished in the Broadway Corridor area (along with the West End)?

As for the cost of parking, the latest numbers I've heard put it at about $125k per stall.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Maybe I'm mistaken, but weren't parking minimum requirements recently abolished in the Broadway Corridor area (along with the West End)?

As for the cost of parking, the latest numbers I've heard put it at about $125k per stall.

Not enacted yet. Details still to come in early 2024. We have a sense of how it will play out, but not 100% sure on what the City will require from us.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Not enacted yet. Details still to come in early 2024. We have a sense of how it will play out, but not 100% sure on what the City will require from us.

But aren't all the Broadway Stations part of the initial 50ish TOA areas under Bill 47? So within 800m of these stations, are parking minimums not already deemed unenforceable?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by csbvan

But aren't all the Broadway Stations part of the initial 50ish TOA areas under Bill 47? So within 800m of these stations, are parking minimums not already deemed unenforceable?

Not if you want to build 8 FSR.