Alexandra Bridge replacement | Proposed

[zzptichka]

Honestly don't understand what's the problem with those bullet points everyone's riled up about. You set up a few lookouts with benches and historical educational plaques here and there that tell the history of the place. Half of them are already there actually. That's how it should be.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Honestly don't understand what's the problem with those bullet points everyone's riled up about. You set up a few lookouts with benches and historical educational plaques here and there that tell the history of the place. Half of them are already there actually. That's how it should be.

I don’t think most people are concerned about any one of those bullet points. It is the size of the list that is concerning. The bridge can’t honour everyone in Canada who isn’t a white, straight, CIS man. Pick something and stick to it. Don’t be wishy-washy.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don’t think most people are concerned about any one of those bullet points. It is the size of the list that is concerning. The bridge can’t honour everyone in Canada who isn’t a white, straight, CIS man. Pick something and stick to it. Don’t be wishy-washy.

Why? It's not about dedicating the bridge to something. It's literally about telling the history of the place.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Why? It's not about dedicating the bridge to something. It's literally about telling the history of the place.

It doesn’t seem like that is what they are talking about, unless that area is particularly significant to the LGBT community or an immigrant group. Even for indigenous people I am not sure it would have been a significant location, the topography appears to be mostly made during the 19th century.

If the bridge is going to commemorate anything it should be the destruction of the NCR’s rail infrastructure by the NCC and the Greber plan.

[Harley613]

Life in the Panderverse...

[daud]

It may have been mentioned many times in this thread already but I can't begin to say how disappointed I am that they are not rehabilitating this bridge or reconstructing it in similar style (truss)

When I look at old photos of Ottawa, it is downright depressing to see so much great architecture that has been torn down for 1960s soviet style stumpy office buildings. King Edward avenue also comes to mind. There's literally dozens of examples. For a capital city, we seem to overthink and overdo everything on a chevrolet budget and not be aware of what we have.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don’t think most people are concerned about any one of those bullet points. It is the size of the list that is concerning. The bridge can’t honour everyone in Canada who isn’t a white, straight, CIS man. Pick something and stick to it. Don’t be wishy-washy.

Have you been out of the country the last 8 years?

You absolutely can honour everyone who isn't a white straight man. Just don't be surprised when they vote you out. Actually I don't think that's the demographic that has switched from Liberals to Cons the most. I think suburban women are the biggest bloc to move but lots of immigrant communities have switched as well and exactly because of this foolishness. While I am sure they do it because they think it's right as your group identity is all that matters but I wonder if it benefits them even with those groups electorally.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If the bridge is going to commemorate anything it should be the destruction of the NCR’s rail infrastructure by the NCC and the Greber plan.

Or, since it was originally built by the CPR, the building of a nation by the construction of a railway and the lives of many (mostly immigrants) were lost during its construction.

Alternatively, as it says in Wikipedia, "The bridge's main cantilever centre span was, at the time of construction, the longest in Canada and the fourth-longest in the world." Why not use it to celebrate Canadian Engineering, or is it politically incorrect to celebrate an industry that was traditionally predominately men?

[Ottawacurious]

Originally Posted by vtecyo

Completely agreed.

Debating if I'd put the rail on the lower deck as opposed to the upper deck for Ottawa. In other words, I'd have 3 decks (why not!). Top deck is a green park/pedestrian pathway that connects into Nepean Point. Below deck are two trains, and 2 lanes of traffic. Third is just like the one in the Portuguese bridge....just above high water/high ice mark. Pedestrian only.

Image: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-fl...5&searchtype=0

[acottawa]

I like the triple decker. Would also have the advantage of requiring way less salt.

I don’t think the lower bridge would work, the river is navigable at that point.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen

[B]

The problem with Kichi Zībī Mīkan and Ādisōke is the terms are literally meaningless to most Ottawans and fail the vital test of identifying what they are.

Which is not to downplay the local importance of the Algonquin people, or “host nation” as we call them now. One might have thought our Algonquin heritage got a significant nod when Bytown was renamed Ottawa in 1855. Ottawa is derived from the Algonquin word adawe, which means “to trade.”

Randall answers his own rant here. The fact that we all identify as "Ottawans" now is a result of a name change in the past. The new names may be meaningless to the current generation, but a decade or two from now people will identify with it. That's one of the points of renaming. Personally, I've warmed up to Pimisi and prefer it over LeBreton. I think more people are now aware that Kichi Zībī is the Algonquin name for the Ottawa River and Ādisōke is storytelling.

Denley likes to stoke the side embers of the right wing that makes people muse, "you know, those MAGA idiots have a point."

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Rare time I'll agree with Denley. This re-naming obsession has gotten a bit extreme.

I agree to a certain point as well. We have another thread to discuss such issues, but I can't find it.

I think there's been an over-correction in society on a lot of subjects.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Randall answers his own rant here. The fact that we all identify as "Ottawans" now is a result of a name change in the past. The new names may be meaningless to the current generation, but a decade or two from now people will identify with it. That's one of the points of renaming. Personally, I've warmed up to Pimisi and prefer it over LeBreton. I think more people are now aware that Kichi Zībī is the Algonquin name for the Ottawa River and Ādisōke is storytelling.

Denley likes to stoke the side embers of the right wing that makes people muse, "you know, those MAGA idiots have a point."

Pimisi has grown on me as well. I do hope we name the Dream plaza or Claridge park Pimisi as well so that there's a geographic connection. Station names should be descriptive of where it is located.

Ādisōke as well I have no issue with. It's easy to pronounce. If we're doubling down on making LeBreton a largely Indigenous inspired district, that's great.

Where I take issue is renaming EVERYTHING for the Indigenous, or using the same name a quatilienth time. How many Kitchi Zibis or variant of do we need? Why did we name PoW Bridge for William Commanda AND a street in Vanier at the same time?

It's not "you know, those MAGA idiots have a point". I think the majority of the population are somewhere in the middle, acknowledging that things need to change and ready to do the work, but also seeing that we may have veered off a bit too far left.

Originally Posted by daud

It may have been mentioned many times in this thread already but I can't begin to say how disappointed I am that they are not rehabilitating this bridge or reconstructing it in similar style (truss)

When I look at old photos of Ottawa, it is downright depressing to see so much great architecture that has been torn down for 1960s soviet style stumpy office buildings. King Edward avenue also comes to mind. There's literally dozens of examples. For a capital city, we seem to overthink and overdo everything on a chevrolet budget and not be aware of what we have.

Replacing Cadillac buildings of the 19th and early 20th Century for Chevrolet buildings.

I'd much prefer a compete rehab of the current bridge and remove cars from it to greatly reduce the damaging salt. I don't see how demolishing and rebuilding is more expensive than a rehab.

Originally Posted by acottawa

It doesn’t seem like that is what they are talking about, unless that area is particularly significant to the LGBT community or an immigrant group. Even for indigenous people I am not sure it would have been a significant location, the topography appears to be mostly made during the 19th century.

If the bridge is going to commemorate anything it should be the destruction of the NCR’s rail infrastructure by the NCC and the Greber plan.

I heard rumours over the years that Major's Hill has certain significance to the LGBTQ community, though I've never witnessed it before. Won't be going into details.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Or, since it was originally built by the CPR, the building of a nation by the construction of a railway and the lives of many (mostly immigrants) were lost during its construction.

Alternatively, as it says in Wikipedia, "The bridge's main cantilever centre span was, at the time of construction, the longest in Canada and the fourth-longest in the world." Why not use it to celebrate Canadian Engineering, or is it politically incorrect to celebrate an industry that was traditionally predominately men?

Yeah, in this case, I'd like to see more of a commemoration of the engineering feat and history of the bridge instead of going in all sorts of direction that have nothing to do with the bridge.

[J.OT13]

Another article from Le Droit:

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/a...IG2ECOT6LBSN4/

They are considering a curved bridge over linear. Though that would be interesting, I don't think that's a good idea if a tram is built.

The space for peds and cyclists will be wider, and both modes will be segregated.

They are still analyzing the role of public transport. It sounds like it would share the car lanes, or eventually replace.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Another article from Le Droit:

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/a...IG2ECOT6LBSN4/

They are considering a curved bridge over linear. Though that would be interesting, I don't think that's a good idea if a tram is built.

The space for peds and cyclists will be wider, and both modes will be segregated.

They are still analyzing the role of public transport. It sounds like it would share the car lanes, or eventually replace.

What would a curved bridge accomplish other than adding to costs?

[citizen j]

Yes, that's an ambitious list. Good. Will the bridge achieve all of that successfully? Probably not, but that's a different issue.

If I felt resistance or animosity to the project's cultural goals, I might ask myself why. What specifically is it that makes me uncomfortable and what does that say about me? There have been some very revealing statements made here that seem to be part of a growing trend. I've resisted saying anything but now I think I've had enough.
Moderators, please delete my account. Thank you.

[zzptichka]

Curious, do the bridges normally change names after full rebuild? What's the tradition there?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by citizen j

Yes, that's an ambitious list. Good. Will the bridge achieve all of that successfully? Probably not, but that's a different issue.

If I felt resistance or animosity to the project's cultural goals, I might ask myself why. What specifically is it that makes me uncomfortable and what does that say about me? There have been some very revealing statements made here that seem to be part of a growing trend. I've resisted saying anything but now I think I've had enough.
Moderators, please delete my account. Thank you.

I think you are right that resistance to the the woke agenda of this government has increased on this forum at the same time as it has in Canadian society more generally. Part of this is the forum average age getting older I'm sure but reflecting the broader Canadian mood is also true.

You can of course delete your account but not everyone who thinks a bridge doesn't need to reflect LGBTQ2+ history is homophobic or even transphobic. Not everyone who thinks everything in Ottawa needn't or even shouldn't be named after Algonquins is racist. Certainly some or even many are. Others think we should judge people as individuals. I don't consider my viewpoint more valuable than a newly arrived immigrant and being here a few generation shouldn't give me more rights to comment on things than a new citizen. We live in a democracy and while we have a more collective viewpoint than our southern neighbours each individual has inherent value and right to think and believe as they see fit as well.

[zzptichka]

Imagine looking at this map and thinking there is not enough honouring of white men going on here and that "woke culture" has gone too far!

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by citizen j

Yes, that's an ambitious list. Good. Will the bridge achieve all of that successfully? Probably not, but that's a different issue.

If I felt resistance or animosity to the project's cultural goals, I might ask myself why. What specifically is it that makes me uncomfortable and what does that say about me? There have been some very revealing statements made here that seem to be part of a growing trend. I've resisted saying anything but now I think I've had enough.
Moderators, please delete my account. Thank you.

fo·rum
/ˈfôrəm/
noun
noun: forum; plural noun: forums; plural noun: fora

1.
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by citizen j

Yes, that's an ambitious list. Good. Will the bridge achieve all of that successfully? Probably not, but that's a different issue.

If I felt resistance or animosity to the project's cultural goals, I might ask myself why. What specifically is it that makes me uncomfortable and what does that say about me? There have been some very revealing statements made here that seem to be part of a growing trend. I've resisted saying anything but now I think I've had enough.
Moderators, please delete my account. Thank you.

What an odd comment, but at least you’ve exemplified the issue many of us are raising. Again, most people don’t take issue with commemorating or honouring various groups such as the Indigenous or LGBTQ communities, but at a certain point even staunch moderates like myself start to question the need to continually throw s*** at a wall and see what sticks. I’d much rather see re-naming occur in a more thoughtful and deliberate manner when there’s a strong case to do so.

Then there’s the aspect of familiarity, wherein federal bureaucrats have thrown locals’ ability to recognize our own landmarks to the wayside in favour of using these names to pander on a national scale. Years after Lebreton station became Pimisi, I still get occasionally blank stares when I refer to the station by the latter. And I guarantee you nobody outside of this forum will call the new central library “Adisoke” despite that actually being a pretty great name. Once Nepean Point reopens, it will still be Nepean Point. In fact, I can’t even remember what it’s been renamed to without checking. And then the Parkway… don’t even get me started.

Ottawa is already a place with a lot of transient people and lacks a strong culture compared to other big cities. Further eroding our sense of identity by making people feel unfamiliar with the landmarks they’ve known for their entire lives is a dangerous path to go down.