Kìwekì Point (formerly Nepean Point) Redevelopment [NCC]

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by RuralCitizen

"Problematic men" in our time. 50-100 years from now, things you do right now that you think are perfectly fine might be considered completely bad and would get you cancelled.

If it turns out something I did is as harmful as slavery or residential schools, please cancel me.

[OTownandDown]

If this were the case, you'd think Douglas Cardinal would have actually cared for the village located where the foundations of the Museum of History is now located (historical artifacts of which were likely obliterated during construction?)

Originally Posted by acottawa

I made a similar point on the NCC thread, but I wonder if they are just picking random Algonquin words. It would be like honouring the francophone community by calling it pointe de lapin or something like that.

AFAIK the Algonquin people had a river-based economy and either built settlements along the rivers or migrated along the rivers. The top of a cliff would have been of limited value and probably was not a place that held any significance.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe they excavated Algonquin artifacts as part of the construction that showed it was the site of a settlement or had some other purpose. If that is the case it would be nice if they would pick a name related to the actual indigenous use rather than having non-indigenous people randomly picking words.

[OTSkyline]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I don't know about Montreal, but there has been some high profile renaming/calls for renaming in Toronto. Ryerson University now being called Toronto Metropolitan University is a prominent one. There have long been calls to rename everything with Dundas in it due to his contribution to delay in the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade, but it would be really expensive to do that.

I'm aware of some of these examples in Toronto where people have been calling for things to be renamed or rebranded, but I don't believe any of them get renamed as obscure aboriginal words AFAIK.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

The thing is, Nepean Point was named after some guy who has never even been to Canada and has no connections with Ottawa to begin with. The guy died before Bytown was even founded.

He served in different secretary positions in the Admiralty 200 years ago (what does it have to do with Ottawa?) and as a governor of Bombay (huh?).

That's a good point, but a whole bunch of things in the Ottawa area are named after Nepean (the former township/former city, a street downtown), so he must have had some significance to early settlers in the area.

At the very least they should put up a plaque noting that the location was called Nepean point for xx years, explaining who Nepean was, why he was important to early settlers.

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That's a good point, but a whole bunch of things in the Ottawa area are named after Nepean (the former township/former city, a street downtown), so he must have had some significance to early settlers in the area.

At the very least they should put up a plaque noting that the location was called Nepean point for xx years, explaining who Nepean was, why he was important to early settlers.

I honestly can’t find anything about why he would have had any relevance to early settlers. Seems like Evan Nepean’s buddies just wanted to name stuff after him. I did learn that Hugh Grant is a descendant. Hugh Grant Point anyone?

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by RuralCitizen

It isn't because you remove the name of first settlers that you will change history. Worse, people will forget that bad things happened.

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not. People are going to forget that bad things happened because a geological formation that 99.9% Canadians have never heard of was renamed? lol.

Sorry if this was satire. Poe's law is a helluva thing.

[J.OT13]

Kìwekì means 'returning to one’s homeland' in Algonquin

An interesting choice. A wish that Europeans would have gone back to their country?

I'm on the fence with this whole thing. On the one hand, as per acottawa's comment, we already have a bunch of stuff named after Nepean. I'm personably not a fan of name replication (think the Flora Footbridge a dozen or so blocks south-east of Flora Street, named after two different Floras, but still confusing for those who don't know the area's geography). That said, I do feel that there's a bit of an over-correction to repent from our ancestor's atrocities (and lingering societal and systemic issues). Re-naming streets, bridges, monuments, geographical features... can be part of the solution however, it seems to be used as an easy out or easy "win" for some private companies, Government agencies and politicians.

Here are some renderings we may not have seen:



https://twitter.com/NCC_CCN/status/15773...%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I honestly can’t find anything about why he would have had any relevance to early settlers. Seems like Evan Nepean’s buddies just wanted to name stuff after him. I did learn that Hugh Grant is a descendant. Hugh Grant Point anyone?

Maybe, but they named a lot of stuff in the Ottawa area after him (and nowhere else in Canada). There must be a reason why.

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Maybe, but they named a lot of stuff in the Ottawa area after him (and nowhere else in Canada). There must be a reason why.

I imagine they named Nepean Township after him and then the bay, point, and street all came along for the ride afterwards because they were part of Nepean Township. Nepean Township predates Bytown (although it wasn't initially called Nepean Township) and the boundaries included all of downtown Ottawa, including the bay, point, and street.

"The 1850 boundaries of Nepean Township were the Ottawa River on the north, the Rideau River on the east, approximately along where Bankfield Road and Brophy Drive are today on the south, and approximately where Eagleson Road, March Road, and Hertzberg Road are today through to Shirleys Bay on the west."

The point wasn't actually named "Nepean Point" until 1876. Evan Nepean died in 1822.

[Kitchissippi]

Kìwekì means 'returning to one’s homeland' in Algonquin

Such an overly verbose phrase when "homecoming" says the same thing in a less controversial manner.

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Such an overly verbose phrase when "homecoming" says the same thing in a less controversial manner.

Is that the spirit of the word in Algonquin? I can understand how it would be distinct from homecoming.

[JayBuoy]

I like Kiweki. Certainly it is new and novel to us, but so were many other indigenous words at first. You gotta start somewhere. Spadina I'm sure was novel at first.

Please I don't need a monument or street name to remember things. If people will forget it they will forget it, monuments and streets be damned. 99% of people will be hard pressed to tell you who Nepean is anyway. Is it the place name that keeps his history alive? No. Wrack your brain, I'm sure you can think of many individuals for whom there is no monument or place.

Places have changed names constantly, Ottawa used to be Bytown. Toronto was York. Ontario was Upper Canada. Sherman Avenue in Hamilton was formerly named Shearman Avenue. Totally different guy. Neither of them the average person would know anything about.

It is not reasonable to expect place names to be totally static, when life is not static.

Also I think Kiweki is nice! Look forward to the reopening of the point, and resuming my regular walks there.

[Spoonsy]

i thought everyone in ottawa just called this "that lookout behind the art gallery" and it crosses their mind once every five to ten years

[Badlands]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

An interesting choice. A wish that Europeans would have gone back to their country?

Or maybe it means that by finally being included in conversations and decision making, that the Algonquin nation feel that their existence and voices are now returning to their homeland.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by feckless

Facts are so confusing. The pushback on this change is disheartening.

I agree. I have no problem whatsoever with replacing names of people who had an objectively negative impact (residential schools) or those with no link to Canada whatsoever (Evan Nepean). Replacing them with Indigenous names can be a subtle but important way of making it clear that this is a home to Indigenous peoples.

[J.OT13]

New name for the bridge too:


https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/2022-C20-Renaming-Nepean-Point-presentation.pdf

Algonquin College's definition of the word:

"Pìdàban is the name by which the Institute for Indigenization in Room C251 on the second floor of the DARE District is known. Pìdàban – the word translates as “past, present, and future” – alludes to the natural phenomena of “daybreak,” that moment in the morning when night becomes a new day. As McLester observed, the symbolism of the word is most appropriate for a space devoted to Indigenization and social entrepreneurship;"

https://www.algonquincollege.com/college-blog/algonquin-colleges-new-indigenous-spaces/

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

New name for the bridge too:


https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/2022-C20-Renaming-Nepean-Point-presentation.pdf

Algonquin College's definition of the word:

"Pìdàban is the name by which the Institute for Indigenization in Room C251 on the second floor of the DARE District is known. Pìdàban – the word translates as “past, present, and future” – alludes to the natural phenomena of “daybreak,” that moment in the morning when night becomes a new day. As McLester observed, the symbolism of the word is most appropriate for a space devoted to Indigenization and social entrepreneurship;"

https://www.algonquincollege.com/college-blog/algonquin-colleges-new-indigenous-spaces/

I like that these names were developed with members of local Algonquin communities forming the majority of the working group. I quite like the names, particularly the name for the pedestrian bridge. It's more interesting than calling it the "Major's Hill Park Pedestrian Bridge" or "National Gallery Pedestrian Bridge", even though in everyday parlance that's probably what people will call it, just like nobody ever really called the point "Nepean Point".

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I like that these names were developed with members of local Algonquin communities forming the majority of the working group. I quite like the names, particularly the name for the pedestrian bridge. It's more interesting than calling it the "Major's Hill Park Pedestrian Bridge" or "National Gallery Pedestrian Bridge", even though in everyday parlance that's probably what people will call it, just like nobody ever really called the point "Nepean Point".

I called it Nepean Point all my life.

Nevertheless, I welcome an indigenous name for the bridge and as long as there is an interpretive plaque explaining the name, it will stick.

An example of what didn't stick is 'Prince of Wales Falls', because there was no plaque reminding the public of the official name. This is now universally known as Hogs Back Falls. Hogs Back was the name for the rock formation.

[GradualFuture]

What is the approx. completion date for this park?

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by GradualFuture

What is the approx. completion date for this park?

It’s supposed to be summer 2023. Not sure if that includes the bridge.