The real problem with Vancouver’s outrageous house prices

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog

Immigration is also a big factor in high housing prices. If the Government wasn't cramming tens of thousands of people into the city the prices wouldn't be as high. More people in an area with low supply makes higher demand-high prices. Rich foreign investors aren't 100% the reason.

Immigration still plays a smaller role than foreign investors. You can make up for immigrant demand with supply. You can never build up enough supply for foreign demand.

[szechuansean]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

You can never build up enough supply for foreign demand.

Instantly thought of this https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/br...616/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

I wonder if the feds will introduce 40 or 50 year mortgages say 10-20 years from now?

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Immigration still plays a smaller role than foreign investors. You can make up for immigrant demand with supply. You can never build up enough supply for foreign demand.

Immigrants are 40% of Vancouver's population. Housing prices would be so much cheaper if 40% of the city wasn't here in the first place. (Although you do have to account for the new housing supply that came with the immigrants, but there is no such thing as an increasing land supply here, along with the land used to build new homes).

[Feathered Friend]

I find some of the comments here distressing. I'm never sure where the "ban the immigrants" talk ends. Are they only bad when they cross the ocean? If they come from south of the border? How about internal Canadian migration? or does Vancouver need to dynamite the bridges and build a wall along Boundary to keep out the dirty immigrants from the rest of Metro. While one might think this is pure hyperbole, I've been told to my face that I'm part of the problem, that I shouldn't be living in Vancouver. Why you ask? Because I was born in Chilliwack, and "immigrated" to the City...

Vancouver wouldn't be anywhere near the important global city it's becoming if it wasn't for immigration. Does it risk failure and the possibility of becoming a resort city? Absolutely! However, advocating for more supply, in particular more rentals and housing for low to middle income, is a worthwhile cause that will help stave off that fate.

More than anything, I want to express my deep sympathies to Pinion. I'm truly sorry you're being forced out of the region you call home, and I feel Vancouver suffers for the loss.

[GlassCity]

I don't know like I get where you're coming from with the immigration example but it's pretty silly. One thing clearly has more of an effect than the other, we clearly have more control over one over the other, and the closing of one would hurt us much less than the closing of another.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, I'm not sure how we reached this conversation. The average immigrant isn't a problem - they buy homes to live in, not for trading like stocks and/or exiling trust fund brats.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

I find some of the comments here distressing. I'm never sure where the "ban the immigrants" talk ends. Are they only bad when they cross the ocean? If they come from south of the border? How about internal Canadian migration? or does Vancouver need to dynamite the bridges and build a wall along Boundary to keep out the dirty immigrants from the rest of Metro. While one might think this is pure hyperbole, I've been told to my face that I'm part of the problem, that I shouldn't be living in Vancouver. Why you ask? Because I was born in Chilliwack, and "immigrated" to the City...

A lot of people define immigrants and foreigners, when it comes to Vancouver, as people immigrating here from other countries.

One thing for certain is that we need to take care of our Canadian citizens first. We need to take care of those that pay the taxes and work the jobs in this city.

This housing crisis is a huge money laundering operation for China (someone, please make a documentary). Vancouver is easily becoming a resort. And this housing crisis is pushing out families, who drive other "businesses" and contribute to the livability of Vancouver. Now I'm not saying that you can only raise a family in a SFH but the prices for condos are ridiculous and we're not building anything that's more than a 2 bedroom. So yeah, families are going out and the city of Vancouver is only cock-teasing us with "affordable housing" when they need to diversify our economy more by trying to attract different businesses (I'm thinking tech).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I was reading a story a while back about how a place in new jersey created some teacher housing, affordable rentals, close to the inner city schools which were having troubles attracting teachers due to lack of affordable housing. I wonder if Vancouver will start to do such housing. I know they used to have nursing housing at VGH, I don't know if they still do but it helps attract workers and make it affordable.

Ironically the Nurses Residence was turned into...condos:
http://www.condopedia.com/wiki/Heather_at_Tapestry

I hope the Vancouver School Board doesn't make the same mistake with sites like Kingsgate Mall. If redeveloped it should be strictly rental, with breaks given to teachers and other VSB employees. The district lost a lot of teachers with the court order to reduce class sizes as many teachers chose to bid for jobs in districts closer to where they live. Very few teachers can afford to buy in Vancouver anymore.

[Pinion]

Redirecting the conversation from multi-millionaire money launderers to supposed "immigrant" hate is a classic tactic to make it about race and xenophobia so you can allow the money laundering to continue.

I grew up in Australia. My parents are Dutch and American. My wife is half Indian via Kenya and half New Zealander via Ireland. Everyone in Vancouver is an immigrant. That's not the issue, and there is no anti-immigration sentiment because there's no establishment to oppress them. Just me living here since the 80s onwards is makes me an OG Vancouverite in most people's eyes.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

I find some of the comments here distressing. I'm never sure where the "ban the immigrants" talk ends. Are they only bad when they cross the ocean? If they come from south of the border? How about internal Canadian migration? or does Vancouver need to dynamite the bridges and build a wall along Boundary to keep out the dirty immigrants from the rest of Metro. While one might think this is pure hyperbole, I've been told to my face that I'm part of the problem, that I shouldn't be living in Vancouver. Why you ask? Because I was born in Chilliwack, and "immigrated" to the City...

Vancouver wouldn't be anywhere near the important global city it's becoming if it wasn't for immigration. Does it risk failure and the possibility of becoming a resort city? Absolutely! However, advocating for more supply, in particular more rentals and housing for low to middle income, is a worthwhile cause that will help stave off that fate.

More than anything, I want to express my deep sympathies to Pinion. I'm truly sorry you're being forced out of the region you call home, and I feel Vancouver suffers for the loss.

I am yet to see someone say ban immigration. People however rightfully are calling out our immigration rate as being too high (we cant keep up with infrastructure, housing supply, services, integration etc.). We just raised the rate 2 years ago by another 20% to 300k a year, and that is ignoring other streams like 10 year visas to developing world countries, insane growth of foreign students (almost all form the developing world), and other programs that have brought in people above and beyond our immigration quota. Had we instead cut it in half to say 125k we would have helped solve many of the problems that are plaguing us today. Reducing our quotas is not banning immigration. Immigration policy and rates must benefit Canadians, if their too high they hurt Canadians and we see that right now. As for Vancouver I my self have been pushed to my own limit and have left and its the best thing I have done. I am only kicking my self for not having done it sooner. Canada has a problem and the solution imo lies with cutting back immigration rates for starters and then working out from there.

[MIPS]

It is hard to say I have no problem with immigration in general when there's a Chinese elephant in the room. I'm sure the moderators love it every time these discussions come up.
Truth is our immigration system does function fine for most people. I do not wish to see it changed.
What I do wish to see changed however is how we handle the inflow from China and its (disputed) territories. While we have been apologetic for our actions to those immigrants of the Old World China (we are talking a century ago), the reality is that those coming in daily to "find a new home" are not the same Chinese residents. You can thank Mao for that.
These are people who are far, far wealthier and are aggressively exploiting our sympathy. They cannot get the special treatment. At this point the only way to get that across is to enforce quotas or (oh dear, this again) taxation on a per-person basis. It's true. For every bad thing you say about them the further past the line of discrimination we go. On the other hand, the beliefs of the Mao Zedong Thought have shown to be historically savage. They are just terrible people.

Imposing restrictions on what the chinese can do once they land here may be political suicide (and economic, given how behind every millionaire college student there seems to be a billionare businessman) but it is the last hope we have for regaining control of the real estate market. Yes our market is white hot and vacancy is low because properties are constantly listing and selling within hours but we cannot continue to deny the two facts behind it: Who are these people that are so eager to buy....and where is the money coming from?

[szechuansean]

Originally Posted by cornholio

I am yet to see someone say ban immigration. People however rightfully are calling out our immigration rate as being too high (we cant keep up with infrastructure, housing supply, services, integration etc.). We just raised the rate 2 years ago by another 20% to 300k a year, and that is ignoring other streams like 10 year visas to developing world countries, insane growth of foreign students (almost all form the developing world), and other programs that have brought in people above and beyond our immigration quota. Had we instead cut it in half to say 125k we would have helped solve many of the problems that are plaguing us today. Reducing our quotas is not banning immigration. Immigration policy and rates must benefit Canadians, if their too high they hurt Canadians and we see that right now. As for Vancouver I my self have been pushed to my own limit and have left and its the best thing I have done. I am only kicking my self for not having done it sooner. Canada has a problem and the solution imo lies with cutting back immigration rates for starters and then working out from there.

Immigration will be ramped up as the last boomers depart this earth.

Have a look at this: http://centuryinitiative.ca

[a very long weekend]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Ironically the Nurses Residence was turned into...condos:
http://www.condopedia.com/wiki/Heather_at_Tapestry

I hope the Vancouver School Board doesn't make the same mistake with sites like Kingsgate Mall. If redeveloped it should be strictly rental, with breaks given to teachers and other VSB employees. The district lost a lot of teachers with the court order to reduce class sizes as many teachers chose to bid for jobs in districts closer to where they live. Very few teachers can afford to buy in Vancouver anymore.

here's a great example of an enormous site, soon to be sitting a block from a rapid transit station, right in the center of town, that should house ~4000 people in parking-free buildings. instead, it will house 800-900.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Vancouver wouldn't be anywhere near the important global city it's becoming if it wasn't for immigration.

Vancouver is NOT in anyway, shape, or form an "important global city" nor will it become one.

Name a major company that is based in Vancouver or BC for that matter. If you are at a loss that's because NONE of Canada's 30 largest corporations are headquartered anywhere in BC. The province has no manufacturing, banks, or even a stock exchange. It is a cultural backwater and is home no major media corporations. Economically Vancouver is an outpost on the edge of no where. At 1.3% Vancouver isn't even growing very quickly and the only time Vancouver makes the news is when housing, real estate, or money laundering are in conversation.

Many world cities are expensive but those are world cities home to huge financial institutions, corporate headquarters, major stock exchanges, and uniformly have high wages which is something Vancouver definitely doesn't have.

This idea that Vancouver is a "world city" is only propagated by developers and real estate agents to try to explain why real estate is so expensive so they can deflect the real reason..........Chinese money laundering.

[SpongeG]

forgive if this has already been posted

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/...ve-locals-first-crack-at-condo-pre-sales

Vancouver's mayor makes move to give locals first crack at condo pre-sales

Mayor Gregor Robertson will introduce a motion at the next meeting of city council (Oct. 17) that he hopes will stop real estate developers from offering out-of-province buyers first-crack at condo pre-sale opportunities in Vancouver.

In a statement released on Friday, Robertson says the proposed policy, which he intends to put in place by the end of the year, will give priority to local residents for sales of new homes in multi-family developments as part of the city’s new 10-year housing strategy.

The city defines local residents as people who live and work in Metro Vancouver and whose permanent address and place of work is in the region, regardless of citizenship.

“My priority as mayor is to deliver new housing supply that is first and foremost for people who live and work in Vancouver, and this motion aims to give local residents the first opportunity to purchase a new home,” said Robertson. “In Vancouver’s red-hot housing market, local employers are crunched to retain talent, whether they’re doctors, tech workers, retailers, firefighters, teachers or nurses. I regularly hear stories about people who work in Vancouver, but are forced to move elsewhere in the region because they can’t find a place to live. At a time when we are seeing record levels of housing construction, local residents should be able to get the first shot at purchasing a home in new developments.”

...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by MIPS

What I do wish to see changed however is how we handle the inflow from China and its (disputed) territories. While we have been apologetic for our actions to those immigrants of the Old World China (we are talking a century ago), the reality is that those coming in daily to "find a new home" are not the same Chinese residents. You can thank Mao for that.
These are people who are far, far wealthier and are aggressively exploiting our sympathy. They cannot get the special treatment. At this point the only way to get that across is to enforce quotas or (oh dear, this again) taxation on a per-person basis. It's true. For every bad thing you say about them the further past the line of discrimination we go. On the other hand, the beliefs of the Mao Zedong Thought have shown to be historically savage. They are just terrible people.

Actually, Mao would've declared all these a-holes "bourgeoisie" and "class enemies" and put them in front of a firing squad. He's only responsible for sucking the soul out of China; it's Deng Xiaopeng's transition from communism to state capitalism that gave them a new purpose in money-grubbing.

Agreed otherwise.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Vancouver is NOT in anyway, shape, or form an "important global city" nor will it become one.

Name a major company that is based in Vancouver or BC for that matter. If you are at a loss that's because NONE of Canada's 30 largest corporations are headquartered anywhere in BC. The province has no manufacturing, banks, or even a stock exchange. It is a cultural backwater and is home no major media corporations. Economically Vancouver is an outpost on the edge of no where. At 1.3% Vancouver isn't even growing very quickly and the only time Vancouver makes the news is when housing, real estate, or money laundering are in conversation.

Many world cities are expensive but those are world cities home to huge financial institutions, corporate headquarters, major stock exchanges, and uniformly have high wages which is something Vancouver definitely doesn't have.

Don't forget our lack of any:
- Music or theatre scene
- 24/7 retail/entertainment hubs
- Major festivals or events (Carnivale, SXSW, hell, I'd even take a Stampede)
- Tourist attractions (Theme parks? Zoos? Casinos? World famous buildings?)
- Major cultural institutions (Museum of Vancouver's not exactly global)

We've got the potential to be a global city, and one day we will be. Right now, we're an oversized Portland that likes to brag about sh*t that other cities just have.

[logan5]

Vancouver is ranked as a Beta City, along with Montreal. That's ahead of Seattle, which is ranked as a Beta - city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city#Global_Economic_Power_Index

[logan5]

And there are Vancouver companies in the top 30, and our growth rate is higher than Toronto's.

A city that has 175 000 people living in the 5square mile downtown area makes for a pretty decent city culture, ie not a backwater.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Immigration still plays a smaller role than foreign investors. You can make up for immigrant demand with supply. You can never build up enough supply for foreign demand.

Here's a nice little example from this weekend's Globe & Mail. It's why most people here will never be able to afford a house in much of Metro Vancouver:

Before Deborah Scott put her 1927 Kerrisdale house on the market in September, she had heard that accepted offers on houses on the west side were falling through.....She accepted another offer a little less than asking, for $6.288-million, which gave her an option to rent the house for two years. She was looking to rent back because she didn't want to move her kids too many times and they were already handling their parents' divorce. However, the buyer, from Richmond, couldn't get all the mortgage financing required and needed until spring to get the remaining money out of China, she was told. They gave her a $200,000 deposit and agreed to give her another $300,000 in December. To protect herself, she got it in writing that both deposits are non-refundable, to be held in trust by her realtor. If the subjects are not removed by the spring closing date, she will receive $500,000 for her trouble. The risk is, of course, that the market could plummet. But it was the only offer she got that worked for her.

"We got a notice on Friday saying they were having trouble getting their mortgage. They need a mortgage for $3-million, and they couldn't get it – they could only get $1.5-million. So they came back and said we can get our money out of China, but not until March. So now my closing date is March. That's high risk for us, but it offered me a two-year rent back."

To her dismay, the buyers plan on tearing the house down, but that was the case with all the offers, she says. Ms. Scott had purchased the house in 2000 because it is a character house in excellent condition. There are five houses near her that are set to be demolished and she estimates that one-third of the homes on her tree-lined street are empty...

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/real-es...ellers-take-a-wild-ride/article36518216/

So as long as Canadians sit meekly back and let their governments allow this kind of crap we're all screwed.