Refreshing a 30-Year old tower: First Canadian Place

[haljackey]

It may be Canada's tallest building, but it doesn't even come close to cracking the top 10 tallest buildings in North America.


Here's a list of the tallest buildings in North America up to First Canadian Place:

(Does not include ones under construction like the new One World Trade Center.)

1. Willis Tower (Chicago): 442m
2. Trump International Hotel & Tower (Chicago): 423m
3. One World Trade Centre (New York) *destroyed*: 417m
4. Two World Trade Centre (New York) *destroyed*: 415m
5. Empire State Building (New York): 381m
6. Bank of America Tower (New York): 365m
7. Aon Center (Chicago): 346m
8. John Hancock Center (Chicago): 344m
9. Chrysler Building (New York): 320m
10. New York Times Tower (New York): 319m
11. US Bank Tower (Los Angeles): 310m
12. JPMorgan Chase Tower (Houston): 305m
13. Two Prudential Plaza (Chicago): 303m
14: Wells Fargo Plaza (Houston): 302m
15: First Canadian Place (Toronto): 298m

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New pictures from Urban Toronto.



A new BMO sign is up!

[koops65]

Originally Posted by haljackey

It may be Canada's tallest building, but it doesn't even come close to cracking the top 10 tallest buildings in North America.

Here's a list of the tallest buildings in North America up to First Canadian Place:

(Does not include ones under construction like the new One World Trade Center.)

1. Willis Tower (Chicago): 442m
2. Trump International Hotel & Tower (Chicago): 423m
3. One World Trade Centre (New York) *destroyed*: 417m
4. Two World Trade Centre (New York) *destroyed*: 415m
5. Empire State Building (New York): 381m
6. Bank of America Tower (New York): 365m
7. Aon Center (Chicago): 346m
8. John Hancock Center (Chicago): 344m
9. Chrysler Building (New York): 320m
10. New York Times Tower (New York): 319m
11. US Bank Tower (Los Angeles): 310m
12. JPMorgan Chase Tower (Houston): 305m
13. Two Prudential Plaza (Chicago): 303m
14: Wells Fargo Plaza (Houston): 302m
15: First Canadian Place (Toronto): 298m

While their loss was extremely regrettable, the twin towers do not belong on this list.

Let's re-write your list to be more accurate...

1. Willis Tower (Chicago) - 442.1 m
2. Trump International Hotel & Tower (Chicago) - 423.4 m
3. Empire State Building (New York City) - 381 m
4. Bank of America Tower (New York City) - 365.8 m
5. Aon Center (Chicago) - 346.3 m
6. John Hancock Center (Chicago) - 343.7 m
7. Chrysler Building (New York City) - 318.9 m
8. New York Times Tower (New York City) - 318.8 m
9. Bank of America Plaza (Atlanta) - 317 m
10. US Bank Tower (Los Angeles) - 310.3 m
11. AT&T Corporate Center (Chicago) - 306.9 m
12. JPMorgan Chase Tower (Houston) - 305.1 m
13. Two Prudential Plazza (Chicago) - 303.3 m
14. Wells Fargo Plaza (Houston) - 302.4 m
15. First Canadian Place (Toronto) - 298 m

Here is the list on the diagram section: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=48186329

It seems you missed 2 towers, and instead inserted 2 buildings that do not even exist.
So FCP still ends up in 15th place. Tenth place is 310.3 m, a difference of only 4%. Don't tell me that they aren't even close...
Furthermore, numbers 4, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 13 all have roof heights lower than FCP. Spires give them thier 'official' height. The roof height of #8, the New York Times Tower, is only 227 m, substantially lower than any other tower on this list, and with its skinny little stick of a spire, it would appear alot shorter than all of the other towers on this list, and many more towers that have higher roof heights.

Here is the list of NA's tallest ordered by roof height, with FCP appearing in 9th place: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=48186452

[WhipperSnapper]

Time to lock this thread as FCP isn't among North America's ten tallest.

[caltrane74]

Actually if you think about it all these towers are taller than FCP are not really taller, as they have cheater spires. And if FCP was allowed to use its functioning and functional antanae in the game, it would have a height of 350 meters.

[Dwils01]

Past by downtown today and could see the top part of the BMO sign. If it takes them a floor a week to replace the marble, they might be done by christmas 2011. I personally think that it will be done by the end of the next summer.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by koops65

While their loss was extremely regrettable, the twin towers do not belong on this list.

Let's re-write your list to be more accurate...

1. Willis Tower (Chicago) - 442.1 m
2. Trump International Hotel & Tower (Chicago) - 423.4 m
3. Empire State Building (New York City) - 381 m
4. Bank of America Tower (New York City) - 365.8 m
5. Aon Center (Chicago) - 346.3 m
6. John Hancock Center (Chicago) - 343.7 m
7. Chrysler Building (New York City) - 318.9 m
8. New York Times Tower (New York City) - 318.8 m
9. Bank of America Plaza (Atlanta) - 317 m
10. US Bank Tower (Los Angeles) - 310.3 m
11. AT&T Corporate Center (Chicago) - 306.9 m
12. JPMorgan Chase Tower (Houston) - 305.1 m
13. Two Prudential Plazza (Chicago) - 303.3 m
14. Wells Fargo Plaza (Houston) - 302.4 m
15. First Canadian Place (Toronto) - 298 m

Here is the list on the diagram section: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=48186329

It seems you missed 2 towers, and instead inserted 2 buildings that do not even exist.
So FCP still ends up in 15th place. Tenth place is 310.3 m, a difference of only 4%. Don't tell me that they aren't even close...
Furthermore, numbers 4, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 13 all have roof heights lower than FCP. Spires give them thier 'official' height. The roof height of #8, the New York Times Tower, is only 227 m, substantially lower than any other tower on this list, and with its skinny little stick of a spire, it would appear alot shorter than all of the other towers on this list, and many more towers that have higher roof heights.

Here is the list of NA's tallest ordered by roof height, with FCP appearing in 9th place: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=48186452

Yeah I guess it depends if you include spires, antennas and what not. I agree with your list and the fact that it does not have the twin towers included.

I guess that's how the Patronas Towers surpassed the Willis (then Sears) Tower when they were built in 1998. Their roofs are much shorter than the Willis, but their spires counted whereas the Willis' antennas do not.

[vid]

The debate surrounding that was what caused CTBUH to introduce four categories to tallest building. Roof height, spire height, tallest twins and tallest to the top of the antenna. With Burj Bubai there isn't much reason for them anymore though, except tallest twins.

The Petronas Towers also removed FCP's position as tallest building in the commonwealth, which had been in Canada since the early 1900s.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by dt_toronto_geek

The platforms being moved down on the north side this afternoon exposing a little more new skin

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

from dt toronto geek at UT

more of the new cladding being revealed....
things are heating up on this one.

[Spoolmak]

I'm guessing Sears tower changed its name to Willis?

[Phil McAvity]

^yeah, that was a while ago. When it happened a lot of people said, "wutchutalkinboutwillis?!?!?!?"

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Time to lock this thread as FCP isn't among North America's ten tallest.

If we had locked the thread we wouldn't have seen the subsequent posts which I would say were worth reading......even Vid's.

Ya gotta love people that try and stifle debate.

Isn't FCP thirty-five years old now though? Also, how long is this recladding supposed to take? I've heard anywhere from 18 months to 42 months.

[WhipperSnapper]

Really? Four years as a registered forumer and over a thousand posts and you still find the whole the roof vs spire worth reading? Beside that and, I repeat, who bloody cares how tall FCP compared to others in the world. It is a significant undertaking for a major skyline player and ... what the hell ...my new home away from home.

I don't recall when the reclad will be supposedly completed but 42 months is just ridiculous to imagine. A lot of the confusion and my lapse in memory has to do with the reclad being one part of a much longer renovation project.

P.S. Apparently the 71st floor is so secure that only a turn of a key will stop the elevator on the floor. I guess it reflects a tower built before pass cards. Still no idea what is up there.

[dtgeek]

Originally Posted by haljackey

It may be Canada's tallest building, but it doesn't even come close to cracking the top 10 tallest buildings in North America.

I like how you said it "doesn't even come close" to the top 10, and then posted a list where it's 13th tallest and only 7 meters from being in the top 10. You must have a really strict definition of "close"!

[caltrane74]

And adding insult to injury the roof heights of 3 of the buildings in the top ten, are actually lower than FCP.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Mongo

Hoping that this will settle the debate, here are the current top 20 completed buildings in the USA and Canada, listed both by roof height and by tallest point:

TALLEST TO ROOF

01 -- 442.1 -- Willis Tower (1974 -- Chicago)
02 -- 381.0 -- Empire State Building (1931 -- New York)
03 -- 359.9 -- Trump International (2009 -- Chicago)
04 -- 346.3 -- Aon Center (1973 -- Chicago)
05 -- 343.7 -- John Hancock Center (1969 -- Chicago)
06 -- 310.3 -- US Bank Tower (1989 -- Los Angeles)
07 -- 305.4 -- JPMorgan Chase Tower (1982 -- Houston)
08 -- 302.4 -- Wells Fargo Plaza (1983 -- Houston)
09 -- 298.0 -- First Canadian Place (1975 -- Toronto)
10 -- 297.2 -- Comcast Center (2008 -- Philadelphia)
11 -- 292.9 -- 311 South Wacker (1990 -- Chicago)
12 -- 287.9 -- Bank of America Tower (2009 -- New York)
13 -- 284.4 -- Bank of America Plaza (1992 -- Atlanta)
14 -- 284.2 -- Columbia Center (1985 -- Seattle)
15 -- 282.0 -- Chrysler Building (1930 -- New York)
16 -- 280.7 -- Bank of America Plaza (1985 -- Dallas)
17 -- 279.0 -- Two Prudential Plaza (1990 -- Chicago)
18 -- 278.9 -- Citigroup Center (1977 -- New York)
19 -- 274.9 -- Scotia Plaza (1988 -- Toronto)
20 -- 274.6 -- Williams Tower (1983 -- Houston)

TALLEST TO HIGHEST POINT

01 -- 527.3 -- Willis Tower (1974 -- Chicago)
02 -- 457.2 -- John Hancock Tower (1969 -- Chicago)
03 -- 443.2 -- Empire State Building (1931 -- New York)
04 -- 423.4 -- Trump International (2009 -- Chicago)
05 -- 365.8 -- Bank of America Tower (2009 -- New York)
06 -- 355.0 -- First Canadian Place (1975 -- Toronto)
07 -- 346.3 -- Aon Center (1973 -- Chicago)
08 -- 340.8 -- Four Times Square (1999 -- New York)
09 -- 318.9 -- Chrysler Building (1930 -- New York)
10 -- 318.8 -- New York Times Tower (2007 -- New York)
11 -- 317.0 -- Bank of America Plaza (1992 -- Atlanta)
12 -- 310.3 -- US Bank Tower (1989 -- Los Angeles)
13 -- 306.9 -- AT&T Corporate Center (1989 -- Chicago)
14 -- 305.4 -- JPMorgan Chase Tower (1982 -- Houston)
15 -- 304.8 -- One Shell Plaza (1971 -- Houston)
16 -- 303.3 -- Two Prudential Plaza (1990 -- Chicago)
17 -- 302.4 -- Wells Fargo Plaza (1983 -- Houston)
18 -- 297.2 -- Comcast Center (2008 -- Philadelphia)
19 -- 295.0 -- Columbia Center (1985 -- Seattle)
20 -- 292.9 -- 311 South Wacker (1990 -- Chicago)

So FCP is either #9 or #6, depending on what definition you use. Definitely not #15, where Haljackey had placed it.

From Mongo at UT

I think this list is really cool...

haha

[MolsonExport]

BMO: Bowel Movement Organization?

[craner]

DAMN YOU CHEATER SPIRES !

The reclad is looking great - love the whiteness.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by interchange42

From the morning of the 16th, taken from Gläs:

from interchange42 at UT

[WhipperSnapper]

Forget that the antennae on FCP aren't an integral design element and are entirely at the whim of market forces. The masts on FCP aren't even self supporting.

[Traynor]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Forget that the antennae on FCP aren't an integral design element and are entirely at the whim of market forces. The masts on FCP aren't even self supporting.

Neither will the spire on the new WTC, yet they are going to count it's height towards the official height. Not only will it be steadied by guy wires but I believe it will be used for signal transmission as well. Now that is what I call a Cheater Spire.

[vid]

But it is more of an architectural asset than the jungle of masts on FCP. And its guy wires only go up a short distance, they're not along the entire mast like on the towers at FCP. You can barely even see them.

FCP would look much better if it had a similar set up.