Bedford South Developments & Discussion Thread

[Dmajackson]

April 18, 2011 Public Information Meeting

BMO Centre, Multi-Purpose Room, 2nd Floor

61 Gary Martin Drive, Bedford – 7:00 p.m.

Case 16877 - Application by Clayton Developments Limited for a substantial amendment to the existing development agreement to allow for condominium townhouses in the area of Road 21. Road 21 is proposed to be located south of Oceanview Drive, west of Nine Mile Drive and north of Larry Uteck Boulevard, Bedford

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I believe this road is now under construction. In the maps I've seen there is townhousing on the first street on the left off of Nine Mile Drive. And speaking of Nine Mile Drive the road base is now in for the next extension to the second street on the right.

[Keith P.]

I recently took a quick tour of this area from the 102 interchange down to the Bedford highway. Random thoughts:

1. Where are all the people who live or are going to live here coming from? There is one huge number of housing units here.

2. An awful lot of it looks like the worst of suburban design as practiced in Scarborough or elsewhere. Huge McMansions on tiny lots crammed next to each other with absolutely no separation. Nothing noteworthy architecturally, beige siding everywhere. Why would anyone want to spend big money on this stuff?

3. A lot of the area is on steep slopes. Not a walking neighborhood.

4. All of it is built on top of solid rock. Much blasting was needed to prepare the site. The cost must be huge.

5. There are townhouses on the left side of Uteck near the Bedford Hwy as you proceed up the hill that are the worst-looking things I have ever seen. Beige siding on the back (which is what you see from Uteck) and fake stone blocks on the front that make it look like a penitentiary. Just awful.

6. The only good thing I can say for the design in the area is that some of the 4-6 storey apartment blocks are at least somewhat different than the usual Halifax design with the wooden decks tacked to the front.

I see nothing that would explain to me why people would want to move here. What is the attraction?

[fenwick16]

I can only base my opinion on the Google Streetview image - Southgate Drive - Street View but I actually like this neighbourhood. I can see it as being an attractive area for families in the middle income range (even upper middle income earners). It has a wide variety of home styles. It is also fairly close to Halifax.

It is somewhat similar to middle income neighbourhoods in the newer areas of Mississauga and Milton, Ontario (these would be considered to be wide lots with double-size garages and would cost about $500,000 or so to buy in Mississauga).

The only thing that really detracts from the area are the hydro poles and lines. Keith P., you must live in a mansion in the South End?

[q12]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I recently took a quick tour of this area from the 102 interchange down to the Bedford highway. Random thoughts:

1. Where are all the people who live or are going to live here coming from? There is one huge number of housing units here.

Halifax is a growing city. Where have you been under a rock? Immigration is one source.

2. An awful lot of it looks like the worst of suburban design as practiced in Scarborough or elsewhere. Huge McMansions on tiny lots crammed next to each other with absolutely no separation. Nothing noteworthy architecturally, beige siding everywhere. Why would anyone want to spend big money on this stuff?

Who knows, but they are and they seem to like it. To each their own.

3. A lot of the area is on steep slopes. Not a walking neighborhood.

Wow really? Halifax is not Saskatchewan.

4. All of it is built on top of solid rock. Much blasting was needed to prepare the site. The cost must be huge.

Again seriously? Where do they not have to blast in HRM?

[DigitalNinja]

I have to agree with Kieth that it is a poorly designed neighborhood. I also feel the lots are to small, if you are going to spend that kinda money may as well get your monies worth.
Houses are bland and cookie cutter.
At least there is density to it.
And the apartment buildings are nice.
They should have put the power lines underground for sure.

[MonctonRad]

Yes, the lots are small, but the topography of the area has something to do with this. Also, since they probably had to use more dynamite than the Canadian Army at Vimy Ridge to blast out this site, the small lot sizes probably make sense in terms of development costs.

I generally like the area but I sympathize with Keith about the bland, beige, cookie cutter houses; but when you have developers building on spec, this is what you get. It's generally only custom built houses that have any character.

[fenwick16]

Here is a Street View of an apartment building in that neighbourhood - Southgate Drive Apartment. This neighbourhood looks pretty good to me. If Halifax is going to start densifying its urban areas then the lot sizes will have to be minimized.

The topography adds to the appeal of these city streets.

PS: For a comparison, this is how homes are packed together in areas of Mississauga - Mississauga neighbourhood

[DigitalNinja]

I agree, it's nice for the area, but it's not an area I would want to live. When you get say a 40 ft lot for 350g or more that is 15 min away from downtown Halifax or a 65 foot lot out in Sackville that is 20 min away from downtown Halifax, for the same, if not less I would choose the more for my money.

[Dmajackson]

Some from this week sometime;




(Nine Mile Drive)


(Hemlocke Square Unnamed building adjacent to RBC)

[fenwick16]

Thanks for the pictorial updates Dmajackson. Do you know if the hydro lines will be buried in any of these neighbourhoods?

[kph06]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the pictorial updates Dmajackson. Do you know if the hydro lines will be buried in any of these neighbourhoods?

Only partially, I think the individual services are underground, but the main line and telecom are usually above ground. This has been a sore point for me for many years, they should be underground. When the site across from the Sobey's was getting blasted out one of the blasts took out a power pole and shut down the line before it was even in use.

[robotropolis]

I think one of the tensions in recent pages on this thread between this neighborhood looking good/looking bad is the Ravines (Clayton), IMO, looks better than Royale Hemlocks (Armco).

I always felt bad for the people in those cute townhouses on the North side of Transom in Royale Hemlocks having to look at the beige boxes on the South side. I actually looked at a house in Hemlocks but really minded the grass-only backyard. It seemed the developers cut down every tree in sight.

In Ravines, there are more trees but I wish they would have mandated hardiplank/shingle or 100% brick on the fronts of the houses (realizing it might have been too much to ask for brick or shingle on all four walls). In Parks they've gotten the fronts in shakes, wood siding or stucco, and although it is still a little greigey for me I am often tempted to end up out there. I only wish the community was built up a bit more at the time that I'm looking, which is now. And that transit links would come along a bit faster. But I really like the modern home designs and the fact that the homes are a bit smaller -- 1700-2200 sf, which isn't bad.

I personally really like the bigger house/smaller lot thing. To me it feels more urban. I'd rather have a nice house or townhouse on a cute little postage stamp than acres of yard to take care of. If I really want to spend that much time outdoors I'm not doing to do it on lawn, I'm going to hit a trail or a beach.

PS I wish someone would make an urban neighborhood like this near Halifax ... and then give me a house in it ... and prepay the property taxes...but that's how close together I like my big houses.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by robotropolis

I think one of the tensions in recent pages on this thread between this neighborhood looking good/looking bad is the Ravines (Clayton), IMO, looks better than Royale Hemlocks (Armco).

I always felt bad for the people in those cute townhouses on the North side of Transom in Royale Hemlocks having to look at the beige boxes on the South side. I actually looked at a house in Hemlocks but really minded the grass-only backyard. It seemed the developers cut down every tree in sight.

In Ravines, there are more trees but I wish they would have mandated hardiplank/shingle or 100% brick on the fronts of the houses (realizing it might have been too much to ask for brick or shingle on all four walls). In Parks they've gotten the fronts in shakes, wood siding or stucco, and although it is still a little greigey for me I am often tempted to end up out there. I only wish the community was built up a bit more at the time that I'm looking, which is now. And that transit links would come along a bit faster. But I really like the modern home designs and the fact that the homes are a bit smaller -- 1700-2200 sf, which isn't bad.

I personally really like the bigger house/smaller lot thing. To me it feels more urban. I'd rather have a nice house or townhouse on a cute little postage stamp than acres of yard to take care of. If I really want to spend that much time outdoors I'm not doing to do it on lawn, I'm going to hit a trail or a beach.

PS I wish someone would make an urban neighborhood like this near Halifax ... and then give me a house in it ... and prepay the property taxes...but that's how close together I like my big houses.

Good points... I actually think its better to have the houses close together, it is much less suburban.

Vinyl siding should be banned in HRM... it can't be good for the environment and is just shite in terms of aesthetics.

Hardiplank is fine, but beige vinyl siding is simply rediculous.

[DigitalNinja]

You call those big houses robo?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by robotropolis

PS I wish someone would make an urban neighborhood like this near Halifax ... and then give me a house in it ... and prepay the property taxes...but that's how close together I like my big houses.

That is a beautiful neighborhood close to downtown Toronto. It would be especially good for people who like attending theaters and sports events.

Building homes on smaller lots will make home ownership affordable for more people near the (former) city of Halifax.

[robotropolis]

Oh they're big houses alright! Big for Halifax anyway. Here's the MLS listing for one ($2.6 million)

5 bedroom 4 bath Incredible Modern Renovation On Four Levels - All Glass And Exotic Wood. South View Over Ramsden Park. Ipe Deck & Fence. Walk-Outs On Every Floor. Soaring Ceilings. Walls Of Windows. Bulthaup Kitchen And Built-Ins, Gaggenau Stainless Steel Appliances, Marble Counters. Fabulous Master & Ensuite, Walk In Closet. Heated Bathroom Floors. Amazing Media Room & Nanny Suite. **** EXTRAS **** Gaggenau Appliances: Fridge, Wall Oven, Microwave, Dishwasher.Wine Cooler. 2 Washer/Dryers. Lot Irregular In Back Narrows To24.59 Ft. All Measurements Approximate. 200 Amp Service.

I realize that's a luxury house and not an average Toronto house.

Average home size on Halifax peninsula is probably what, 1200 sq. feet? I wish they at least built full second stories. Househunting is making me curse the story and a half.

RE: VINYL SIDING

I agree. The increased cost for hardiplank doesn't seem to be that much factored into the cost of a luxury home. $5K? $10K? And it looks soooooo much better. But I guess the buyers aren't asking for it. I would have a hard time convincing my fiance to go for hardiplank (actually, this has come up between us more than once). He looks at that $5K or $10K and thinks "Tahiti."

[DigitalNinja]

Hmm, they don't look big from the front... They must go way back into the lots?

[robotropolis]

Four finished levels, I think the house might be 25X75? Not sure. No total square footage and everything in meters on MLS is kinda screwing me up. But it sure adds up to a lot of house as long as you don't mind being real close to your neighbors.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by robotropolis

PS I wish someone would make an urban neighborhood like this near Halifax ... and then give me a house in it ... and prepay the property taxes...but that's how close together I like my big houses.

Central Halifax around Vernon, Jubilee, Watt, looks like this, though obviously clap board and shingle, instead of brick. 500-700K gets you one.

[robotropolis]

Even there the houses are generally spread out enough to have driveways. They aren't really giant either -- modest two stories -- but then again they're not 2.6 mill either!