[North Vancouver] Lower Lonsdale | Rebirth of a Neighbourhood

[wrenegade]

There are two rental buildings going in on West 1st (at Chesterfield) that will bring another ~80 units to the area, ~70 units in Capstone, 62 units in the Versatile Building, ~100 units in Orizon, and 61 units in the proposed 127-131 East 3rd development. That's a little over 370 new units in the neighbourhood by the end of 2014, plus whatever Pinnacle may build in the remaining 2 buildings at the Pier. Lower Lonsdale isn't dead, it's just treading water. I believe it will improve, but it desperately needs more people in the area to make the businesses viable.

[Rusty Gull]

More residents -might- help. But many retailers have been pointing out that the new residents in the Pier developments, for example, haven't made any kind of noticeable impact on neighbourhood retail traffic.

Unfortunately, many of the newer residents have no vested interested in the neighbourhood - they see the area as a holding station until they flip their pad for a house in the North Shore or an upgraded condo in Coal Harbour. The booming real estate market has sapped the soul out of the community.

Plus, the City has given residents almost zero reason to leave their apartments and walk around the area. The parks situation in Lower Lonsdale is abysmal - dare I say laughable. It's the single biggest disgrace, especially when you compare to similarly dense neighbourhoods in the City of Vancouver.

The people infrastructure is awful - deteriorating sidewalks, dangerous bike lanes and bike routes, crappy landscaping. The City still hasn't replaced the Lonsdale medium flags from the great windstorm of 2008. How sad.

Access to the Pier is brutal. That development is destined to fail for the main reason that nobody knows it's there.

The architecture in the hood is consistently sub-par. It's a perfect mishmash of gruesome high-rises and leaky stucco low-rises - plus 1970s social housing.

The area still has no public outdoor swimming pool, nor an indoor pool for that matter. The community centre is a joke.

I have spoken with some other retailers/ businesses on Lonsdale and more are set to leave. Property taxes are going up along with rents - it's unsustainable to have a small business in the area.

Unfortunately, most residents in North Vancouver (outside of Lower Lonsdale) drive gas-guzzling SUVs, shops at malls like Park Royal, and would vote Republican if they could. They don't have time or patience for walkable neighbourhoods anchored by multi-unit dwellings and family owned businesses.

So the long-term prospects for a neighbourhood like Lower Lonsdale are very grim indeed.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by [B

Rusty Gull[/B];5794064] ............ (pardon the deletions, but one can read your full statement; I wanted to get to a few points....)
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The architecture in the hood is consistently sub-par. It's a perfect mishmash of gruesome high-rises and leaky stucco low-rises - plus 1970s social housing.

A hard thing to change, I agree.
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The area still has no public outdoor swimming pool, nor an indoor pool for that matter. The community centre is a joke..........
.............................................................

This is something that CAN be worked on, and changed.
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Unfortunately, most residents in North Vancouver (outside of Lower Lonsdale) drive gas-guzzling SUVs, shops at malls like Park Royal, and would vote Republican if they could. They don't have time or patiencefor walkable neighbourhoods anchored by multi-unit dwellings and family owned businesses.
.............
Many of the districts in the City of North Vancouver have been, and are, traditionally working class, single-family, transient, etc.

Regarding Park Royal, it serves West Vancouver, too, and is sort of the "downtown" of the North Shore. The ugly ones are Capilano Mall, and such. Cheaper, yes, but uglier. ...

...As for voting Republican, no I doubt it, as they often call on state aid funding, which the Democrats would more likely give the poor, but I admit that they DO fit the sort of loud, uneducated, North American stereotype.
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So the long-term prospects for a neighbourhood like Lower Lonsdale are very grim indeed.

The worst thing (in my opinion) was taking the Seven Seas away. If it had stayed, even as other than a restaurant, it would have added character to the hood and be integrated in some way.

OK, so what are we left with? Perhaps not a lot, but where there's a will there's a way, and maybe idea and neighbourhoood groups will spring up with proposals. We can hope, and do our best .....
Grim is a pretty dark word. I hope there's a way out; even if it takes a while.

[jozero]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

More residents -might- help. But many retailers have been pointing out that the new residents in the Pier developments, for example, haven't made any kind of noticeable impact on neighbourhood retail traffic.

I agree that the condo parts is a complete wasted opportunity. Its obvious the developers thought condo flippers were going to buy the units, so they put no care into it. And it shows. Its basically our little version of coal harbour. Drive by at night and count the few lights that are on. Walk by the wonderful set of condos on 1st between Lonsdale and Chesterfield. Nice windy sidewalk and green area of One Park Lane, nice architecture of Time Building with integrated grocery story and other amenities, feels like a community there. Now walk by the Pier buildings - cold, structural. Missed the mark.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Plus, the City has given residents almost zero reason to leave their apartments and walk around the area. The parks situation in Lower Lonsdale is abysmal - dare I say laughable. It's the single biggest disgrace, especially when you compare to similarly dense neighbourhoods in the City of Vancouver.

I also find the park situation in Lower Lonsdale bizarre. You have literally the most stunning views of Vancouver City, inlet, and Stanley parks anywhere in the lower mainland. How is it celebrated ? By the decrepit Waterfront park (which could be a showpiece) and the cement laden Pier. I'll cut the Pier some slack since they lost their marquee. Both however, as Rusty noted, are bizarrely effectively hidden. The park is hidden to the masses exiting the seabus.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

The people infrastructure is awful - deteriorating sidewalks, dangerous bike lanes and bike routes, crappy landscaping. The City still hasn't replaced the Lonsdale medium flags from the great windstorm of 2008. How sad.

Sadly I can't argue against this. There seems to be a lack of overall vision. Instead of doing things piece meal how about just a concentrated effort ? Decent bike lanes are painted on one street then just cut off on the next. What is the thinking there? Imagine if they built roads like that - "oh sorry, you have to carry your car the next few blocks, we forgot a road should be continuous".

In Vancouver they outline their new bike path vision, *declare what its for*, let the I hate change people vent their anger, and then they build it. By declare what its for I mean they announce this will help folks from Kits get to downtown, because X% of people bike and we want it to be more. Why is viaduct bike lane built, because they want a clear east-west route and it will help these neighborhoods to get from point A to dowtown or Stanley Park. Now explain to me the bike lane choices on Marine drive, or the green strip painted in front of city hall that cuts off one block east and west of it.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Access to the Pier is brutal. That development is destined to fail for the main reason that nobody knows it's there.

This can be fixed by a marquee tenant, however I still don't think the vision is there. Building a Cap collage division there is a good idea, putting a local no-one-cares North Vancouver museum there is not.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

The architecture in the hood is consistently sub-par. It's a perfect mishmash of gruesome high-rises and leaky stucco low-rises - plus 1970s social housing.

Better this than the single decade architecture of downtown West end or Yaletown glass.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

The area still has no public outdoor swimming pool, nor an indoor pool for that matter. The community centre is a joke.

Its not a joke, its just too small. The gym gets crazy packed.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

I have spoken with some other retailers/ businesses on Lonsdale and more are set to leave. Property taxes are going up along with rents - it's unsustainable to have a small business in the area.

Here I disagree with you somewhat. We need a shake up of retailers in Lower Lonsdale.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Unfortunately, most residents in North Vancouver (outside of Lower Lonsdale) drive gas-guzzling SUVs, shops at malls like Park Royal, and would vote Republican if they could. They don't have time or patience for walkable neighbourhoods anchored by multi-unit dwellings and family owned businesses.

I've lived in Lower Lonsdale now for 5 years and I really don't see this. I don't see a lot of SUVs, I do see people walking. Unfortunately a lot of them are are not walking or driving to areas in Lower Lonsdale, it to leave via cbus or car, do whatever, then come back.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

So the long-term prospects for a neighbourhood like Lower Lonsdale are very grim indeed.

Its a nice warm day, I can have a nice dinner at Fishworks, check out new stuff at Big Pete's, get some ice cream, walk to the Quay and browse, go watch a flick at our local theatre. To me its a great neighbourhood. We need a council who is willing to take a large risk and do something great at the Pier, we need park improvements, and some better stores. None of these goals are unattainable. I'd even say the trend is towards this. Its just slower than I personally would like.

[logan5]

Water, mountains, great view, good commercial strip, I've always thought of Lonsdale as one of the better neighborhoods in Vancouver, in some regards Lonsdale cannot be beat. The fact that it can be that much better bodes well for the neighborhood.

There are major cities in Canada where Lonsdale would instantly become the coolest neighborhood.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

There are major cities in Canada where Lonsdale would instantly become the coolest neighborhood.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Unfortunately, most residents in North Vancouver (outside of Lower Lonsdale) drive gas-guzzling SUVs, shops at malls like Park Royal, and would vote Republican if they could. They don't have time or patience for walkable neighbourhoods anchored by multi-unit dwellings and family owned businesses.

Wearing it a bit on your sleeve, aren't you?

[Millennium2002]

@ Rusty Gull:

That pessimism...

As I've said before, progress is inevitably slow with urban planning, and more so during the cooling down of the housing market.

As a result, one cannot claim from just recent appearances and rumours alone that it's all over so fast. That just plainly doesn't make sense from a long-term perspective, which is how urban planning projects are normally and should be looked at from.

Besides, this is probably the fourth time you've called out the death card, and yet I've seen no hard evidence that things are heading downhill. None. Nada. All I do see is a random post claiming that from the estimated number of lease signs that the area is a total loss, which is not entirely correct.

I'd personally wouldn't call it over until there are very good statistics that lend credence to that theory.

Until then, I'll probably take your words with a grain of salt, and will continue to check back for updates to Lower Lonsdale.

@ logan5:

I'd agree with that. =) Although there's probably a few ways to make it even better.

[wrenegade]

Looks like Opus is not long for Lower Lonsdale. Colliers has a listing for 6,900 sf of "retail/office space" plastered on the side of the building.

[Pinion]

The Versatile building on Lonsdale and 3rd is now two storeys high on the south side and it looks like people have finally moved out of the old ANAVETS buildings, which means demolition for Orizon (St. Georges and 3rd) should start soon.

I don't understand how they can say "Coming Fall 2012" when they just emptied the old buildings, even if it is wood frame.

[wrenegade]

I think they are referring to "Coming Fall 2012" meaning pre-selling Fall 2012. Anyways, at least we'll hopefully see a model and/or a new rendering.

As for the Versatile Building...this is from August 31st


IMG_0973.jpg by Alex.Wren.Photo, on Flickr

[Pinion]

In case you missed Bodom Reaper's post on North Shore updates, the first look at Orizon



http://www.intracorp.ca/orizononthird/first-look/

Nice to see a bit of variety from all the other buildings popping up on Marine/3rd.

Also has a rooftop patio which is inexplicably rare for LoLo



http://www.intracorp.ca/orizononthird/outdoor-living/

The building's so nice the entire downtown peninsula rotated to look at it!

[Pinion]

I was just looking at the 3 bedroom floorplan.

http://www.intracorp.ca/orizononthird/residences/

Is it common for condos to come with income suites complete with kitchenettes and their own separate entrance? I've never seen that before.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I was just looking at the 3 bedroom floorplan.

http://www.intracorp.ca/orizononthird/residences/

Is it common for condos to come with income suites complete with kitchenettes and their own separate entrance? I've never seen that before.

Lock-off suites aren't common but I've seen them offered in a few other projects in Van. I suspect they are more often be used for family (ie. university aged children or elderly parents) or as a guest room than for income. Just guessing though.

[officedweller]

The lock-off units were allowed in some units up at SFU UniverCity. Presumably to rent to students.

[Pinion]

I don't think anyone's ever posted a render of 127 E 3rd so here ya go


http://www.cnv.org/c//data/2/402/201...esentation.pdf

(former I Love Sushi building)

[LeftCoaster]

Looks like solid infill to me. Thanks.

[red-paladin]

Nice to see the retail at the base!

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Nice to see the retail at the base!

Yeah, hopefully the new Fiesta Filipino grocery store/restaurant in the building to the east can hang on during construction so we can have almost two full blocks of open stores on east 3rd for the first time.

[Pinion]

Finally a full view of Orizon. Facing southeast:


Intracorp Flickr

Facing northeast:


Intracorp Flickr