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  #221  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 11:52 PM
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An insightful report about the challenges of getting people back downtown and very real issues of safety and perception.



https://leger360.com/surveys/legers-...ugust-11-2022/
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  #222  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 AM
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Funny how the pandemic and the ills of "this moment" have been scaling back progress we seemed to be making a few years ago in terms of being a more 24-hour society.

Even in the burbs where I live just a few years ago there was more and more stuff open 24 hours, or at least very late. Now there's almost nothing left of that and I've even been stuck in the suburbs of Montreal trying to find an open sit-down restaurant after 8 pm! Sheesh.
The pandemic gave many businesses a reason for reducing hours (sometimes drastically) without it angering customers. The worker shortage has only reinforced reduced hours as being necessary.

Quebec used to be the place to go out for late night dinner and drinks. Today it is the worst. I have often ended up just getting take-out and eating it in my hotel room when there. I've had the same experience in a number of places in Ontario too though.

I was recently in the U.S. and there are no longer any 24 hour grocery stores or Walmart locations. I think the Meijer grocery stores and Walmarts are now open from 6am to 11pm or midnight. The Timmins Walmart is open 7am to 11pm for comparison. And I didn't see many late night restaurants like there used to be. Not even all Denny's are 24 hours and some aren't open for supper.
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  #223  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 1:05 AM
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Interesting article about the mother of an autistic 25 year old with addiction problem living on the street in Chilliwack. She lives in Saskatchewan and comes out twice a year to visit.

He ended up Chilliwack to go into some detox program that did not work out and ended up on the street.

https://www.theprogress.com/news/sas...-homeless-son/
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  #224  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:12 AM
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Another day, another random stabbing on the TTC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-bus-1.6726091

This coming a day after another unprovoked stabbing on a streetcar, TTC employees being attacked with a syringe, and two TTC employees beaten by a group of kids.

Rough week to be a transit user in Toronto!
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  #225  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:31 AM
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Another day, another random stabbing on the TTC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-bus-1.6726091

This coming a day after another unprovoked stabbing on a streetcar, TTC employees being attacked with a syringe, and two TTC employees beaten by a group of kids.

Rough week to be a transit user in Toronto!
Funny how we never get descriptions of the peeps in the media anymore.
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  #226  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:42 AM
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Winnipeg has been seeing a lot of violent attacks on transit also. Including one on a ten year old child and his father on a bus just this past week. Two days ago an 18 year old girl got beat pretty badly at a bus stop and robbed by a group of teenage girls. It has gotten pretty bad out here.
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  #227  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 4:52 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Almost makes one want to rethink the viability of transit if this is the direction we are moving towards. Great for the environment and traffic, not so great for safety...
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  #228  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 5:09 AM
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Almost makes one want to rethink the viability of transit if this is the direction we are moving towards. Great for the environment and traffic, not so great for safety...
Yeah, I'm not giving up my vehicle anytime soon. I lived in Montreal for quite sometime. I didn't have a car and took the bus and metro pretty much everyday. The entire time i was there, I may have had one incident that could have turned bad. Here in Winnipeg, unfortunately it's been a different story. I love Winnipeg. I don't want to be to harsh on this city, but yeah we have a bit of an issue with homelessness and people with poor mental health out there and alot of them are on the busses and at bus shelters.
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  #229  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 7:10 AM
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I noticed the same thing in Edmonton. My grandparents live next to a major transit terminal in Castledown and my grandmother sometimes grumbles about "all the homeless people at the bus station". I always used to chalk it up to her being a bit fussy and dismissive, but sure enough, I was there last spring and pretty much 24/7 there seemed to be about 10-15 people sleeping on the floor and/or preparing needle drugs in the (honestly very nice looking) transit terminal. And that behaviour does tend to spill onto the transit vehicles themselves.

I couldn't help but think of the extremely similar Lacewood Terminal in the extremely similar Clayton Park area of Halifax, and how we don't see that there - yet. Occasionally there will be someone passed out in a bus shelter or on a bus, but it's the kind of thing I see maybe once a month, as a pretty regular transit user. And it's never at the larger, "indoor" terminals.

What we do see more and more here, in addition to all of the tents in parks*, is homeless/mentally ill/addicted people hanging out in the Central Library. At any given time maybe 5% of the people there are homeless, exhausted, not-showered-in-weeks, hacking up lungs, throwing up, passing out, etc. More often than not it smells pretty strongly of piss, and I've seen paramedics come pick up unconscious people a few times so far this month.

Basically these are the spaces that are available to them to get out of the weather, or to get some sleep somewhere where someone else isn't going to steal all of their possessions (if they have any). Or recharge electronics if they have any (most of these people don't seem to). The shelters here are all full, and I'm guessing it's the same story in Edmonton and Winnipeg. I think it's mostly incidental differences in climate and layout that result in homeless people taking up quasi-residence in the transit system in Edm/Wpg, vs the Library in Halifax. I noticed in Edmonton in particular - for most of the year, people aren't outside unless they really have to be, and even the homeless want to be out of the elements somewhere. It feels cruel to kick them out of the only heated/air conditioned spaces that they're "allowed" in. In Halifax, it's a bit more viable (though not 100% comfortable or healthy) for people to just be outside most of the time, and I'm guessing Halifax Transit's internal policy on these things is harsher than the western cities'. They definitely wouldn't let people get away with being in terminals overnight - there are perfectly good parks for people to sleep in

The biggest difference with the Library situation is that yes it would be nicer if everyone there was showered and not hacking up lungs or passed out pissing themselves, but life just sort of goes on around them for the hundreds of other people there, and if anything goes wrong there are 10 concerned bystanders for every homeless/seriously ill person, plus all of the staff. Whereas in Edmonton (and I'd guess in Winnipeg) the homeless people are very often the "dominant group" when walking into any major transit terminal, and probably even some vehicles. This can be pretty intimidating, and realistically I wouldn't be comfortable using transit more than a couple times a year if that's what it's like.



*This year the City designated 4 approved parks for homeless people to camp in, luckily it's been a warm winter. Mental illness/addiction/"haggardness" tend to be less pronounced with the people in the parks than the people in the Library, who I suppose sleep in the Library during the day because there's nowhere for them to sleep at night. Most of the "Library People" wouldn't be capable of setting up a tent, and wouldn't know where to get one, and aren't aware that's an option. The "Park People" are usually coherent and many of them have day jobs etc, there literally is just nowhere else for them to live right now. I guess it's possible that there's a lot of overlap and that the Park People just aren't noticeable in the library because they look normal and healthy (they would just look like miscellaneous strangers, not "visibly homeless/seriously ill")

Last edited by Hali87; Jan 26, 2023 at 7:21 AM.
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  #230  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Another day, another random stabbing on the TTC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-bus-1.6726091

This coming a day after another unprovoked stabbing on a streetcar, TTC employees being attacked with a syringe, and two TTC employees beaten by a group of kids.

Rough week to be a transit user in Toronto!
Yeah, it's been brutal - it's easy to blame these unprovoked attacks on mental health / drugs but I do wonder if there's something else going on. Sounds a bit conspiratorial but the group of girls who murdered the homeless man had apparently committed other attacks on the TTC. Copycat issues? Swarmings were also a big thing in the early 2000s in Ottawa.

Regardless, the online discourse around this (not on SSP) has gone off the deep end. People on reddit talking about how taking the TTC is a warzone and you're taking your life in your hands, waxing poetic about vigilante justice and the like. I'm also half convinced that at this point there's a segment of the population that got comfortable with never leaving the house, and when they see a homeless person 100m away they assume they'll be attacked. I've mentioned this before but it's a dangerous positive feedback loop where people become scared and it does in fact get more dangerous.

I don't want to downplay the uptick in attacks / visibly homeless people on the TTC but it's still a pretty safe way to travel. I take transit a few times a week (sometimes with our dog) and while the incidence of potential issues seems a bit higher than it used to it's not drastic at a personal level. I certainly remember worse in the East End when I lived off Gerrard over a decade ago where it seemed like every day there was an altercation on the streetcar. Statistically I'm probably worse off when I cycle into work.

Not sure what the answers are here. It's easy to say more security but what exactly does that mean? There's never going to be a TPS officer on every vehicle and I personally wouldn't want there to be. More visibility of TTC staff could help I suppose. A new approach entirely?
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  #231  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 2:50 PM
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Funny how we never get descriptions of the peeps in the media anymore.
The Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be abolished.
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  #232  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 2:54 PM
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Funny how we never get descriptions of the peeps in the media anymore.
It's arguably not necessary when the suspect is apprehended right away.
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  #233  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 2:58 PM
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Yeah, it's been brutal - it's easy to blame these unprovoked attacks on mental health / drugs but I do wonder if there's something else going on. Sounds a bit conspiratorial but the group of girls who murdered the homeless man had apparently committed other attacks on the TTC. Copycat issues? Swarmings were also a big thing in the early 2000s in Ottawa.

Regardless, the online discourse around this (not on SSP) has gone off the deep end. People on reddit talking about how taking the TTC is a warzone and you're taking your life in your hands, waxing poetic about vigilante justice and the like. I'm also half convinced that at this point there's a segment of the population that got comfortable with never leaving the house, and when they see a homeless person 100m away they assume they'll be attacked. I've mentioned this before but it's a dangerous positive feedback loop where people become scared and it does in fact get more dangerous.

I don't want to downplay the uptick in attacks / visibly homeless people on the TTC but it's still a pretty safe way to travel. I take transit a few times a week (sometimes with our dog) and while the incidence of potential issues seems a bit higher than it used to it's not drastic at a personal level. I certainly remember worse in the East End when I lived off Gerrard over a decade ago where it seemed like every day there was an altercation on the streetcar. Statistically I'm probably worse off when I cycle into work.

Not sure what the answers are here. It's easy to say more security but what exactly does that mean? There's never going to be a TPS officer on every vehicle and I personally wouldn't want there to be. More visibility of TTC staff could help I suppose. A new approach entirely?
It's going to be extremely hard if not impossible to put the genie back in the bottle on this one. That's why it is (or was) critically important to not lose control in the first place.

Don't worry be happy types, be damned!
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  #234  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 3:07 PM
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The biggest difference with the Library situation is that yes it would be nicer if everyone there was showered and not hacking up lungs or passed out pissing themselves, but life just sort of goes on around them for the hundreds of other people there, and if anything goes wrong there are 10 concerned bystanders for every homeless/seriously ill person, plus all of the staff. Whereas in Edmonton (and I'd guess in Winnipeg) the homeless people are very often the "dominant group" when walking into any major transit terminal, and probably even some vehicles. This can be pretty intimidating, and realistically I wouldn't be comfortable using transit more than a couple times a year if that's what it's like.
The problem with this situation, though, is that this makes the library a de facto homeless shelter, when in fact it's a library, and it and it adds "homeless shelter staff" to the librarians' job description. The city spent near $60 million to build a world-renowned architectural masterpiece to house the main branch of the library, and now it has become the home for people with nowhere else to go. While it is admirable and empathetic to allow people to be there, it's really a poor solution to an overwhelming problem.

For all the talk of politics in other threads, I rarely see mention to this as an issue that needs to be solved, sadly. The closest we ever seem to get is the housing problem, which is probably a major factor in this homeless situation, but it goes far beyond that. There needs to be major improvements into dealing with addiction issues (perhaps some work on preventing the influx of manufactured drugs that are killing people regularly), more mental health assistance and perhaps the reinstatement of the many mental health wards in hospitals that were systematically shut down in the 1990s, and some actual solutions to providing specialized living conditions for those who find themselves on the streets.

Homeless people living in libraries and transit stations are a symptom of a wide-reaching problem, that perhaps goes right to the root of how our society has evolved. It feels like there are too many people who no longer feel that they have any options of participating in society, so their life continues to deteriorate until you see them in these situations, and we start to hear about the worst aspect of it (overdose and violence) in the news media. However, we all know that this doesn't just happen overnight - this starts in childhood for many, perhaps never really fitting into the school system and feeling like a failure or an outsider, being set up for a life of failure and losing hope for the future, or having legitimate mental health issues that are never recognized or just never treated.

It's a huge issue, and society needs to deal with it, starting with leadership from our elected officials. We need to understand and embrace our homeless, rather than letting them just fend for themselves, whilst superficially "dealing" with it by allowing them access to a library or transit station and expecting the staff and patrons to handle the situation...
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  #235  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2023, 3:14 PM
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I noticed the same thing in Edmonton.
Yeah, very similar situation in Edmonton to what we see here in Winnipeg.


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What we do see more and more here, in addition to all of the tents in parks*, is homeless/mentally ill/addicted people hanging out in the Central Library. At any given time maybe 5% of the people there are homeless, exhausted, not-showered-in-weeks, hacking up lungs, throwing up, passing out, etc. More often than not it smells pretty strongly of piss, and I've seen paramedics come pick up unconscious people a few times so far this month.
Sad to hear things have become like that in Halifax. That is exactly what many bus shelters in downtown Winnipeg are like. Paramedics pick up unconscious people daily here. A few years ago it was only downtown but we see this in other areas now . Our central library also has that problem. Things got so bad at the library you now have to go through metal detectors and a security check before being allowed in. Things got pretty bad down there.

Last edited by Luisito; Jan 26, 2023 at 3:39 PM.
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  #236  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 4:08 AM
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  #237  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
The problem with this situation, though, is that this makes the library a de facto homeless shelter, when in fact it's a library, and it and it adds "homeless shelter staff" to the librarians' job description. The city spent near $60 million to build a world-renowned architectural masterpiece to house the main branch of the library, and now it has become the home for people with nowhere else to go. While it is admirable and empathetic to allow people to be there, it's really a poor solution to an overwhelming problem.

For all the talk of politics in other threads, I rarely see mention to this as an issue that needs to be solved, sadly. The closest we ever seem to get is the housing problem, which is probably a major factor in this homeless situation, but it goes far beyond that. There needs to be major improvements into dealing with addiction issues (perhaps some work on preventing the influx of manufactured drugs that are killing people regularly), more mental health assistance and perhaps the reinstatement of the many mental health wards in hospitals that were systematically shut down in the 1990s, and some actual solutions to providing specialized living conditions for those who find themselves on the streets.

Homeless people living in libraries and transit stations are a symptom of a wide-reaching problem, that perhaps goes right to the root of how our society has evolved. It feels like there are too many people who no longer feel that they have any options of participating in society, so their life continues to deteriorate until you see them in these situations, and we start to hear about the worst aspect of it (overdose and violence) in the news media. However, we all know that this doesn't just happen overnight - this starts in childhood for many, perhaps never really fitting into the school system and feeling like a failure or an outsider, being set up for a life of failure and losing hope for the future, or having legitimate mental health issues that are never recognized or just never treated.

It's a huge issue, and society needs to deal with it, starting with leadership from our elected officials. We need to understand and embrace our homeless, rather than letting them just fend for themselves, whilst superficially "dealing" with it by allowing them access to a library or transit station and expecting the staff and patrons to handle the situation...
There are a few interconnected issues here:

1 - Lack of mental health/addiction/social supports
2 - Recent trends towards more dangerous/harmful street drugs
3 - Lack of homeless shelter space
4 - Lack of affordable/available housing
5 - Downloading of responsibilities onto random public employees whose jobs and expertise are totally unrelated to any of this
6 - Health and safety risks to other users of public infrastructure

I think that factors 1, 3, and 4 are the ones that various levels of government can and should be doing a lot better on (3 and 4 I would consider decisive failures at this point, at least in Halifax)

Factors 5 and 6 (the de facto "solutions for now") are quietly tolerated to the extent that people are compassionate, but they shouldn't be considered acceptable.
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  #238  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 6:09 AM
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The problem with this situation, though, is that this makes the library a de facto homeless shelter, when in fact it's a library, and it and it adds "homeless shelter staff" to the librarians' job description. The city spent near $60 million to build a world-renowned architectural masterpiece to house the main branch of the library, and now it has become the home for people with nowhere else to go. While it is admirable and empathetic to allow people to be there, it's really a poor solution to an overwhelming problem.

For all the talk of politics in other threads, I rarely see mention to this as an issue that needs to be solved, sadly. The closest we ever seem to get is the housing problem, which is probably a major factor in this homeless situation, but it goes far beyond that. There needs to be major improvements into dealing with addiction issues (perhaps some work on preventing the influx of manufactured drugs that are killing people regularly), more mental health assistance and perhaps the reinstatement of the many mental health wards in hospitals that were systematically shut down in the 1990s, and some actual solutions to providing specialized living conditions for those who find themselves on the streets.

Homeless people living in libraries and transit stations are a symptom of a wide-reaching problem, that perhaps goes right to the root of how our society has evolved. It feels like there are too many people who no longer feel that they have any options of participating in society, so their life continues to deteriorate until you see them in these situations, and we start to hear about the worst aspect of it (overdose and violence) in the news media. However, we all know that this doesn't just happen overnight - this starts in childhood for many, perhaps never really fitting into the school system and feeling like a failure or an outsider, being set up for a life of failure and losing hope for the future, or having legitimate mental health issues that are never recognized or just never treated.

It's a huge issue, and society needs to deal with it, starting with leadership from our elected officials. We need to understand and embrace our homeless, rather than letting them just fend for themselves, whilst superficially "dealing" with it by allowing them access to a library or transit station and expecting the staff and patrons to handle the situation...
Maybe the problem is we give people just enough money to live in a drug filled squalor without having to work. When it is no longer work or starve it’s easier to drop out of society and its norms. Perhaps welfare should have a time limit, like EI.
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  #239  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2023, 5:48 PM
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I don't want to downplay the uptick in attacks / visibly homeless people on the TTC but it's still a pretty safe way to travel. I take transit a few times a week (sometimes with our dog) and while the incidence of potential issues seems a bit higher than it used to it's not drastic at a personal level. I certainly remember worse in the East End when I lived off Gerrard over a decade ago where it seemed like every day there was an altercation on the streetcar. Statistically I'm probably worse off when I cycle into work.

Violent incidents were up 10% between 2019 and 2021, and up about 22% between 2021 and 2022 - apparently enough to be noticed by the BBC! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64408450. Too early for any 2023 stats yet of course, but sounds like there's been a whole other spate of attacks in just the past couple days since I last posted: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...fety-1.6729654

On a personal level, I've been riding the TTC my whole life, and have used it at all hours of the day across the city. Nothing terrible has ever happened to me; but still, the first 30 years were relatively incident-free; while just in the past 2 years (where I was already using transit less than ever) I've been hassled, threatened, and seen fights break out multiple times. Seems like it's 50-50 odds when I get on a subway now as to whether there'll be a "screamer" bothering everyone. I'm not scared to take it (yet...), but it does make for an all-around unpleasant experience (on top of the already existing unpleasantness of the TTC's endless delays) that I'd rather just avoid by biking, driving, or ubering where possible.
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  #240  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2023, 9:40 PM
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Edmonton's mayor chimes in on Downtown safety.
https://medium.com/mayorsohi/edmonto...y-d86309fc2ebf
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