Polo Park Expansion

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by pegcityboy

I am waiting for the first person to chime in and say “ where is everyone going to park ? There’s no parking lol ! I guess any possible future expansion of Polo Park would be a third floor build .

Originally Posted by trueviking

I doubt the realized project will be car-free as they say, but that's not critical. This is a great proposal...a catalyst for rapid transit and growth in the west end. Can't see it being a ten year build-out....I'd be happy if it starts in ten years!

The public information on the proposal says it will have 1.5x the private vehicle parking as the current side. I wouldn't be surprised to see that evolve to being 2x or higher. It is just the interior of the site at ground level seems to be mostly car free. This seems to suggest the plan is considering multiple levels of underground parking.

Considering Hydro Place was planned for more underground parking than could be accommodated due to ground conditions and was left scrambling to find alternatives I would not start celebrating how "car-free" the Polo Park plans are until more details come out on how they plan to accommodate all the vehicles they say they will.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

There are always plenty of empty parking spots available across the street where Best Buy, Michaels, Save-On Foods, etc are located if people can't parking right by the mall. Of course that means walking an extra block...

Even taking the walking aspect out of that, as it is a different land owner that is not really a viable option. Available surface parking and it's use for something occurring elsewhere is a long standing conflict in Winnipeg. And matter of fact CF Polo Park used to be front and center on that for events at the old Winnipeg Arena and Stadium.

Originally Posted by Gravity Wins

With this many new residents, it could completely change the direction of Polo Park. I would imagine there would be way more demand for things people want in their neighbourhood like hair salons, bakeries, coffee shops, etc. As retail continues to struggle, malls with density around them should adapt and become spaces for their communities, not just visitors from the suburbs.

Or heck, just tear the whole thing down and build a park. That'd be cool too.

Keep in mind the development plan is looking to add lots of new CRU on the ground levels of these new builds. I would imagine that is where a lot of the services like you describe will locate. The other thing to keep in mind is lots of people are willing to travel to go to a hair stylist, nail salon, spa, etc where they like the person providing the service. Things like bakeries, restaurants, bars, etc could definitely benefit from the captive resident population though. but that is something that hasn't really played out in other parts of Winnipeg.

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Westport on paper looks a bit better, has quite a bit more density and it’s closer to more amenities, but it’s frontage off Portage is terrible.

Westport is going to be worse than the Taylor Ave apartments. The site has no transit service, will likely never have a grocery store or a pharmacy and it is questionable if it will have any restaurants beyond the existing Tim Hortons. Further, due to the proximity of the Portage/Perimeter interchange which makes pedestrian and cycling access near impossible currently and planned to be worse with the upcoming intersection changes.

--

The big question I have for the planned Polo Park residential is if this is exclusively going to be rentals or will there be condos included? Also will the planned residential parking be fully segregated and secured from the public parking on the site?

[esquire]

Given where things are with the condo market these days, I'd be surprised if more than 10% of the residential units ended up as condos. It does seem that the big landlords in urban areas are all about the rentals.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

between city infrastructure issues and the WAA this could stall

Re: WAA. Doesn't this meet the requirements. It's all low rise. They can't just unilaterally block all development within the flight paths.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Re: WAA. Doesn't this meet the requirements. It's all low rise. They can't just unilaterally block all development within the flight paths.

That's what I was thinking. After the last go round, a lot has changed in terms of AVDP rules and the proposal itself. CF probably has this sorted out to minimize the potential for WAA derailing their plans.

I get that WAA has to protect their golden goose but I think they also have to accept the fact that the Polo Park area has been developed for nearly a century and they can't expect it to remain frozen in time forever. At some point the city is going to need to make better, more intensive use of that land.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Westport is going to be worse than the Taylor Ave apartments. The site has no transit service, will likely never have a grocery store or a pharmacy and it is questionable if it will have any restaurants beyond the existing Tim Hortons. Further, due to the proximity of the Portage/Perimeter interchange which makes pedestrian and cycling access near impossible currently and planned to be worse with the upcoming intersection changes.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

The BRT expansion plan calls for the Portage line to go all the way to the Red River Ex which is adjacent to Westport. The blue line of course stretches all the way to U of M so most transit needs are met.

Secondly, a Costco is planned as the main anchor tenant for the Westport Development. If not Costco then it’s going to be some other 100k sq ft grocery store. With all the commercial lots amenities and services will be plentiful. With the Iceplex, Downs, and Ex residents there will get more amenities within walking distance then most Winnipeggers.

Finally, there are plans for an AT path on the main road (race track rd). And let’s not be fooled the city can absolutely add cycling facilities on Perimeter interchanges. They’ve already done it with Pembina, and they plan to add bike lanes on the new St. Mary’s interchange. Being close to the interchange will have no effect on whether they can or can’t build an AT path on that stretch of Portage.

[Biff]

Re Parking:

Almost all of the buildings surrounding the shopping centre will be 2 to 3 storey parkade podiums with apartments above.

[zalf]

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/big-plan...ment-1.6228979

This article has a neat little photo comparison where you can toggle between its current and redeveloped state. What I didn't notice before is it involves an expansion to the mall itself on the west

Edit: Direct link to the viz: https://public.flourish.studio/visua...ation/12425757

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

the Iceplex, ..

FYI, no longer called IcePlex, it's the "Hockey for all Centre". Hockey is officially no longer just for white privileged boys

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

FYI, no longer called IcePlex, it's the "Hockey for all Centre". Hockey is officially no longer just for white privileged boys

Having been a massive lifelong WHL fan for the last three years, I'm fairly certain the median WHL player is from Alberta and his dad (if from Northern Alberta) owns an oilfield services company or (if from Southern Alberta) works as an oil company executive. Either way his family has a pile of money and his parents post a lot of anti-Trudeau memes on social media

[esquire]

Originally Posted by zalf

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/big-plan...ment-1.6228979

This article has a neat little photo comparison where you can toggle between its current and redeveloped state. What I didn't notice before is it involves an expansion to the mall itself on the west

Edit: Direct link to the viz: https://public.flourish.studio/visua...ation/12425757

That is nifty, thanks for sharing it.

I wonder what CF is planning for the western mall expansion? It seems to me that they struggled to fill some of the vacant spaces in recent years.

Also interesting to me they aren't planning to demolish/redevelop the movie theatre. It's over 25 years old now and I'm assuming the building wasn't designed to last a whole lot longer than maybe 30 years?

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

That is nifty, thanks for sharing it.

I wonder what CF is planning for the western mall expansion? It seems to me that they struggled to fill some of the vacant spaces in recent years.

Also interesting to me they aren't planning to demolish/redevelop the movie theatre. It's over 25 years old now and I'm assuming the building wasn't designed to last a whole lot longer than maybe 30 years?

re - west expansion - these are conceptual designs and I'm sure they just want to keep some reserve space in case they ever need more retail square footage. Adding 4000 units to the area could drastically alter the demand for what's currently available.

Re movie theater - if the theater ever needs redevelopment I can't imagine it would need to outgrow its current footprint. Movie theater attendance seems to have tanked since the pandemic and a lot of streaming services have taken new releases for themselves. If anything I could see a reduction in auditoriums and more arcade space, plus larger/more spacious seats to compete with Landmark. Not an expansion in building size.

[zalf]

Come to think of it, it looks like the east side parkade might be a storey taller, too. Though it could just be an artifact of the render vs Google Earth.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WildCake

re - west expansion - these are conceptual designs and I'm sure they just want to keep some reserve space in case they ever need more retail square footage. Adding 4000 units to the area could drastically alter the demand for what's currently available.

Re movie theater - if the theater ever needs redevelopment I can't imagine it would need to outgrow its current footprint. Movie theater attendance seems to have tanked since the pandemic and a lot of streaming services have taken new releases for themselves. If anything I could see a reduction in auditoriums and more arcade space, plus larger/more spacious seats to compete with Landmark. Not an expansion in building size.

I wasn't thinking they'd expand the cinemas, just more that they'd move it somewhere else and use the space it currently occupies more efficiently/profitably.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

Re Parking:

Almost all of the buildings surrounding the shopping centre will be 2 to 3 storey parkade podiums with apartments above.

Well that's pretty lame actually. So basically it will remain a huge parking lot, with apartments on top of parkades.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Well that's pretty lame actually. So basically it will remain a huge parking lot, with apartments on top of parkades.

Something like this just doesn't happen in that location without parking.

I'm sure that much like the mall itself, there will be a parking area, and a pedestrian walking area without cars. I don't foresee it being a power centre style mishmash of stores and parking with people forced to navigate awkward layouts.

[bomberjet]

Put the parkades underground would be my proposal. Instead the residences will be up 4 storeys on top of cars. Not very good IMO. Or just build a huge parkade on top of the existing ones. Or something else.

Lets not pretend this will be some model of urban development with the people living in the sky with nothing but cars underneath. I'm trying to be optimistic here, but ya that sounds not good to me. Maybe it'll be nice up on top between the buildings with plantings and such.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Put the parkades underground would be my proposal. Instead the residences will be up 4 storeys on top of cars. Not very good IMO. Or just build a huge parkade on top of the existing ones. Or something else.

Lets not pretend this will be some model of urban development with the people living in the sky with nothing but cars underneath. I'm trying to be optimistic here, but ya that sounds not good to me. Maybe it'll be nice up on top between the buildings with plantings and such.

Yeah, I think anyone expecting perfection here will be disappointed.

I don't want to say that what's proposed is "good enough", but... what's proposed is "good enough"

[kylbaz]

Originally Posted by zalf

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/big-plan...ment-1.6228979

This article has a neat little photo comparison where you can toggle between its current and redeveloped state. What I didn't notice before is it involves an expansion to the mall itself on the west

Edit: Direct link to the viz: https://public.flourish.studio/visua...ation/12425757

That looks great. What a massive project.

[The Jabroni]

Okay, so the proposed residential developments will have multi-storey parking for both residential tenants and shoppers, but I guess we will wait and see if this will go ahead.

Usually ambitious projects like this either gets shot down, or scaled back. I hope it goes through, but I also hope that whatever infrastructure improvements that need to be made, as mentioned earlier regarding water and sewer upgrades, that will also need to be done.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Okay, so the proposed residential developments will have multi-storey parking for both residential tenants and shoppers, but I guess we will wait and see if this will go ahead.

Usually ambitious projects like this either gets shot down, or scaled back. I hope it goes through, but I also hope that whatever infrastructure improvements that need to be made, as mentioned earlier regarding water and sewer upgrades, that will also need to be done.

CF is a blue chip company, and in the local context, so is Shindico. They have the expertise, and more importantly, the means to get it done.

If it was Sandhu Developments or whatever then yeah, you would be right to be skeptical. But these developers are legit. A project like this is just another development for a company like CF. I suspect they have done their homework with regard to such things as sewer lines, etc.