CHICAGO | General Developments

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Im in Andersonville and pay 1k for 1 bed, utilities and balcony included. It can be done with an open eye and a little persistence. But anyway yes I agree, very strange. Im not sure if this is just one developer being optimistic or something indicative of a larger bubble in LS. Either way, I think its only a matter of time before people start saying "forget it" and start eyeing other areas if this keeps up. Once you get to that level you're pricing out a whole lot of people, especially the kind that Logan has attracted up til now.

Yeah, I meant $1K for a 1 bedroom in Andersonville. I know studios are less there. I agree though - I think the only way this would make sense is if they offered shorter term leases. If you're an intern for example, you could afford $1K/month at many companies and sometimes finding summer housing isn't exactly easy.

[Link N. Parker]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Im in Andersonville and pay 1k for 1 bed, utilities and balcony included. It can be done with an open eye and a little persistence. But anyway yes I agree, very strange. Im not sure if this is just one developer being optimistic or something indicative of a larger bubble in LS. Either way, I think its only a matter of time before people start saying "forget it" and start eyeing other areas if this keeps up. Once you get to that level you're pricing out a whole lot of people, especially the kind that Logan has attracted up til now.

EXACTLY. One of the reasons LS has started seeing revitalization/gentrification, was because it was supposed to be a cheaper alternative to Wicker Park. Obviously, as a place does get more popular, prices will rise, but $1000 for a studio here is really ridiculous. There is no incentive to live here at that price, when there are other neighborhoods that are more popular that are priced at that level.

Also - the micro-apartment "trend" is also BS. No one really wants to live in a small cramped space. Most people who go for small apartments, do so because they are looking for a cheap price or to save money. But when you take a small place and price it like a luxury unit, there is no incentive to live there anymore. Do developers not get this??

[Jibba]

Ardecila's presumption is correct: They are wanting to designate this as SRO to be able to adhere to a lower MLA requirement. They would need to up the site to C1-3 given the lot area and the unit count. Revolution adjoins the property in question and received C1-5 for their brewery but obviously not towards the same purpose.

[Baronvonellis]

It seems like studios rent for around about $850 now in logan square. So $1000 isn't that much higher. They seem to be optimistic that rents are going up in logan square, and I think they are right to assume that. Logan square is a very trendy area. I wouldn't be quick to discount that. This place will be within stumbling distance of Revolution Brewery too, which would have some bragging rights. Plus you will get new trendy finishes at this place compared to older studios. By the time this building is ready for occupany rents in Logan Square should be higher than now. Perhaps, they figure they can start rents at $1000 and if they don't get alot of bites lower it to $900 for a year or two and then jack it up.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

It seems like studios rent for around about $850 now in logan square. So $1000 isn't that much higher. They seem to be optimistic that rents are going up in logan square, and I think they are right to assume that. Logan square is a very trendy area. I wouldn't be quick to discount that. This place will be within stumbling distance of Revolution Brewery too, which would have some bragging rights. Plus you will get new trendy finishes at this place compared to older studios. By the time this building is ready for occupany rents in Logan Square should be higher than now. Perhaps, they figure they can start rents at $1000 and if they don't get alot of bites lower it to $900 for a year or two and then jack it up.

Where are you getting $850 for a studio? Currently you can find a 2 bedroom near Logan/Humboldt neighborhoods for $900.

Examples:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/4439074708.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/4444723814.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/4438637571.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/4436677768.html

[the urban politician]

I for one don't understand the need for whining. Development and rehab costs are expensive, not to mention being an endeavor not without risk. When you include rising insurance, tax, and utility costs, you damn well better believe rents should go up! And yes, even in a cramped studio. God bless people who raise rents. They should raise them more. Not enough apartments are priced high enough right now. People should suffer if they want to live in good areas of the city. Property owners are already paying their fair share, trust me.

[Baronvonellis]

I was using that padmapper link that you provided. I just did a search for studio apartments in logan and thats what came up. Two of those links are in hermosa way west of Logan.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

God bless people who raise rents. They should raise them more. Not enough apartments are priced high enough right now.

Says who, precisely? You? I guess we now know at least one person who dosent rent.

"Yeah man, I love having my rents jacked! Whats that, you want to double it this year? Hell, lets go triple! Cant wait! High five?"

People should suffer if they want to live in good areas of the city.

Im really on the verge of saying some choice words but Im just gonna bite my tongue. But it really takes an audacious level of ignorance to get me riled up, so congrats. To circumvent what I was going to say I will simply leave it at: no, "suffering" should not be part and parcel of living in a good area of the city and the best neighborhoods (and cities for that matter) are those that accommodate all types of people, income levels, and walks of life without being openly hostile about it.

Sorry, but your post left a really bad taste in my mouth. Times like this when I almost yearn for another bust. And if $1k economy apartments in LS arent indicative we're on the cusp Im not sure what is.

[LouisVanDerWright]

I don't know who to respond to in this discussion, so I'll just make a general comment: I happen to manage a very large, old, building full of studios not far from there and, after I took over a few years ago, the first thing I did was jack rents up from $550-$650 to no less than $850 a unit. The thing is, the units I manage are garbage compared to a state of the art, new construction building like the one proposed. Why was I such a mean baddie to the tenants? Because I could be. I could put an ad up on Craiglist for $850/mo and get literally dozens of inquiries in a couple of hours. There is massive demand for housing in Logan Square right now and it is totally outstripping the supply.

This development should easily be able to achieve $1,000/month for brand new studios that are less than a block from the L. Yes there are parts of Logan where you can get something for less, but whoever said they could get a 2 BR in Logan for $1,000 is mad. You can't even get a 2 BR in West Avondale for less than $1,100 right now. I have friends trying to move to this area and they can't find anything within 4 blocks of Milwaukee Ave for less than $1400/month and that's for half assed rehabs in old buildings, not brand new units.

The thing is the demand is not to "live near Humboldt Park or Logan Square", the demand is for apartments that are right on top of the night life and right on top of the L stations. Anything further than two blocks from the L is not a legitimate comp for a building like this. Anything within two blocks of the L is going for about $1.50-2.00/SF/Mo for older buildings and $2.50-3.00/SF for newer construction. That's just the market, believe it or not. I've leased out dozens of units at the aforementioned prices and certainly will not change my pricing for any "moral" reasoning.

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Says who, precisely? You? I guess we now know at least one person who dosent rent.

"Yeah man, I love having my rents jacked! Whats that, you want to double it this year? Hell, lets go triple! Cant wait! High five?"

Then move to a new, cooler, cheaper, neighborhood on the "frontier". Rents in Logan Square are going to equal or exceed those in Wicker Park within 5 years, mark my words. This is ultimately VERY good for the city because it means huge amounts of capital pouring into the neighborhoods that can support these rents and therefore more pioneers moving into other areas that need a lot more help than Logan Square does at this point. I don't think people should "suffer", but I think people should not expect to get sweet deals in one of the hottest neighborhoods in the country.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

...
Then move to a new, cooler, cheaper, neighborhood on the "frontier". Rents in Logan Square are going to equal or exceed those in Wicker Park within 5 years, mark my words. This is ultimately VERY good for the city because it means huge amounts of capital pouring into the neighborhoods that can support these rents and therefore more pioneers moving into other areas that need a lot more help than Logan Square does at this point. I don't think people should "suffer", but I think people should not expect to get sweet deals in one of the hottest neighborhoods in the country.

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Where are you getting $850 for a studio? Currently you can find a 2 bedroom near Logan/Humboldt neighborhoods for $900.
...

"near" and "within 2 blocks of an 'L' station are not the same thing. Not even remotely.

Originally Posted by Link N. Parker

EXACTLY. One of the reasons LS has started seeing revitalization/gentrification, was because it was supposed to be a cheaper alternative to Wicker Park. Obviously, as a place does get more popular, prices will rise, but $1000 for a studio here is really ridiculous. There is no incentive to live here at that price, when there are other neighborhoods that are more popular that are priced at that level.

Also - the micro-apartment "trend" is also BS. No one really wants to live in a small cramped space. Most people who go for small apartments, do so because they are looking for a cheap price or to save money. But when you take a small place and price it like a luxury unit, there is no incentive to live there anymore. Do developers not get this??

A) Logan Square is popular as much because of what it's not as because of what it is. And it both IS a really nice neighborhood and IS NOT filled with business types (yet).

B) Many city people genuinely either don't care that much about unit size or even prefer smaller units because they cost less to furnish, are easier to keep clean, and, all things being equal, are less expensive than larger units when comparing apples to apples.

When I bought my place, I didn't pick the biggest place, I picked the best location even though it was smaller than several other places I looked at. Now, granted, at 1200 square feet in a well-planned layout it's still plenty more space than any SRO unit would be, but part of the reason I went with a condo in River North instead of a SFH in Logan Square was that I didn't want to have to furnish and keep up twice as much space even though I could afford it. Bigger isn't always better.

Originally Posted by marothisu

Yeah, well I'd say a handful of neighborhoods (anywhere downtown, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Andersonville, Wicker Park, Bucktown, etc). You can actually find 2 and 3 bedroom apartments in Bridgeport and McKinley Park for under or around $1000/month. I know people who have 1 bedroom + den set up in Pilsen for under $700/month. I know a few people around Pilsen or Heart of Chicago who pay under $800/month for 2 bedroom places.

Logan Square is a lot different from Pilsen or Heart of Chicago, and the parts of Pilsen that are most similar to Logan Square (East Pilsen) are nowhere near an 'L' station.

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Im in Andersonville and pay 1k for 1 bed, utilities and balcony included. It can be done with an open eye and a little persistence. But anyway yes I agree, very strange. Im not sure if this is just one developer being optimistic or something indicative of a larger bubble in LS. Either way, I think its only a matter of time before people start saying "forget it" and start eyeing other areas if this keeps up. Once you get to that level you're pricing out a whole lot of people, especially the kind that Logan has attracted up til now.

I like Logan Square a lot and seriously considered buying a SFH there before deciding on my vintage condo in River North. What I like about it has mostly remained and there have been some niceties added. Although when I visit the area I do miss some of the "super mercados" and taco places that have disappeared. I can totally see rents coming close to Wicker Park prices - Logan Square is totally the Lakeview to Wicker Park's Lincoln Park, and Lakeview prices are very similar to Lincoln Park prices. What Logan Square misses in relation to proximity to downtown it gains in proximity to O'Hare, and the boulevard system really does add something special to the neighborhood.

[ardecila]

^ Distance is psychological... The SRO site does indeed feel very close to the California Blue Line from the POV of a pedestrian, probably because that block of California is lined with bars and restaurants with a good street presence, and because the crossing signals at that intersection are short so it's not a huge barrier.

One stop down the Blue Line, Margie's is at a similar distance away from the Blue Line but feels further away because that intersection sucks so hard with long signals, wide streets and a massive cancerous McDonalds, abandoned Checkers, blank facades on the bank/Margie's, etc.

[Rizzo]

This building should be renting $750 / apartment. There's simply too many cheap apartments in the area. Quite a few of them rehabbed. But you never know. Some people rent apartments without looking.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Hayward

This building should be renting $750 / apartment. There's simply too many cheap apartments in the area. Quite a few of them rehabbed. But you never know. Some people rent apartments without looking.

Except for the fact that you are wrong and there are not any cheap apartments anywhere near there. Like I said, you are not going to find a new construction apartment anywhere even remotely close to the L in Logan Square anywhere near $1000. It doesn't exist. Find a listing a craiglist, just try, I guarantee you won't find anything unless it is a complete sty. Also, why would they ask $2.00/SF? That's rehab prices and this is not a rehab, this is new construction. $3.00/SF is not at all unreasonable. I get almost $2.00/SF on junky studio apartments that have barely been updated in any capacity and are in a dilapidated building more than twice as far as this from the L.

[Rizzo]

Okay fine you are right. I'll just tell my realtor and friends in the neighborhood they are liars. If you are confident new construction will pull more than a gut rehab that's great. But in that neighborhood people are looking for space. I'm not going to argue over whether someone wants to charge a ton for an apartment the size of a dorm ...good for them. The rest of the renters in the area will make much more wise selections.

[Kenmore]

Like every neighborhood, Logan has super desirable blocks and those that still harbor relatively cheap units on the fringes of gangland. It's the most rapidly gentrifying neighborhood in chicago and apartments that are currently affordable will probably be seeing rent increases once old timer landlords get a clue. They'll have no problem renting these micro studios for 1k, it's 2014.

This development should easily be able to achieve $1,000/month for brand new studios that are less than a block from the L. Yes there are parts of Logan where you can get something for less, but whoever said they could get a 2 BR in Logan for $1,000 is mad. You can't even get a 2 BR in West Avondale for less than $1,100 right now. I have friends trying to move to this area and they can't find anything within 4 blocks of Milwaukee Ave for less than $1400/month and that's for half assed rehabs in old buildings, not brand new units.

The thing is the demand is not to "live near Humboldt Park or Logan Square", the demand is for apartments that are right on top of the night life and right on top of the L stations. Anything further than two blocks from the L is not a legitimate comp for a building like this.

+1

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Okay fine you are right. I'll just tell my realtor and friends in the neighborhood they are liars. If you are confident new construction will pull more than a gut rehab that's great. But in that neighborhood people are looking for space. I'm not going to argue over whether someone wants to charge a ton for an apartment the size of a dorm ...good for them. The rest of the renters in the area will make much more wise selections.

Show me one listing for something bigger than a studio, even on Craigslist, that is for less than $1,000 and within two blocks of the L in Logan. Show me one listing, for a studio, that is less than $800 and I'll concede. No roommate ads and no sublets. Even M Fischman's junky studios up by Diversey are fetching $800+ right now.

[Rizzo]

Ok

[wierdaaron]

Alright we're done talking about apartment prices, now let's tackle the issue of public parks vs plazas.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

Alright we're done talking about apartment prices, now let's tackle the issue of public parks vs plazas.

Screw em both...we need more parking lots!

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Screw em both...we need more parking lots!

And retail strip centers.