Rapid Transit

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Hamiltonians will pay regardless. Sure, if LRT goes ahead, it'll cost more but at least you'd get something out of it. A smart city would want to get out ahead of this speculation and engage with the province.

Again, any strides this city is making is totally and completely in spite of what happens in council chambers. Lame.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

. There is no desire to saddle the city with more debt when we already have huge infrastructure costs coming up over the next number of years.

The infrastructure costs we will be seeing are supportive of LRT. LRT will reduce the strain on infrastructure in many ways- by further reducing motor vehicle traffic on roads that are our biggest expense; by facilitating dense development in places that are already serviced, and do not require new infrastructure (roads, sewer, water, everything) on green fields for inefficient suburban development.

If we’re going to be saddled with huge infrastructure costs over the next few years, we should be full-tilt trying to reduce them. Does it make a lot of sense to say that roads are so crushingly expensive that we can’t afford to spend any money on any alternative to roads?

[Beedok]

I honestly think that abolishing municipal governments would improve things some days.

[flar]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

The city is not going to make a decision until they know exactly what it is going to cost the taxpayers of this city. They have been asking for the last year and the province has failed to give them an answer. Until the province lets them know a decision won't be made.
At the same time if it ends up costing the city a dime it will be rejected. There is no desire to saddle the city with more debt when we already have huge infrastructure costs coming up over the next number of years.

That's not how it works. Higher levels of government don't just give a lump sum to do whatever with. There needs to be a plan and the province is not going to dictate to the municipality. The province has already suggested what the money is for, and that's as far as they'll go. If Hamilton doesn't have a plan or make priorities, they won't get the money. Yet another game of chicken with the province is not going to be helpful.

The key point is that Hamiltonians will pay for this no matter what. Half the money is earmarked for the GTHA, and there are lots of takers. Do Hamiltonians want to pay for light rail in other cities, or would they like improvements in their own city?

[matt602]

Originally Posted by flar

The key point is that Hamiltonians will pay for this no matter what. Half the money is earmarked for the GTHA, and there are lots of takers. Do Hamiltonians want to pay for light rail in other cities, or would they like improvements in their own city?

This is what it's all about right here. We're gonna be paying into this thing regardless of whether we want it or not, so lets actually get something out of it for once and not be left in the GTA's dust.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by matt602

This is what it's all about right here. We're gonna be paying into this thing regardless of whether we want it or not, so lets actually get something out of it for once and not be left in the GTA's dust.

The problem is you and others are assuming that this going to move forward. It still has to get through the legislature which is highly doubtful at this point considering what the opposition party's have been saying regarding new taxes.

The Liberals can make all of the announcements they want, but getting it passed into law is another story. If an election is called over this the Liberals are going to have a very tough time trying to sell higher taxes for public transit considering less than 10% of the voting public ever use it.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by flar

That's not how it works. Higher levels of government don't just give a lump sum to do whatever with. There needs to be a plan and the province is not going to dictate to the municipality. The province has already suggested what the money is for, and that's as far as they'll go. If Hamilton doesn't have a plan or make priorities, they won't get the money. Yet another game of chicken with the province is not going to be helpful.

The key point is that Hamiltonians will pay for this no matter what. Half the money is earmarked for the GTHA, and there are lots of takers. Do Hamiltonians want to pay for light rail in other cities, or would they like improvements in their own city?

They are not asking for a lump sum, they are asking what the city's share is going to be. The province is asking the city to approve something without telling the city what their share of the costs will be. They are essentially asking for a blank cheque. I think it's prudent of councilors to ask how much and make a decision based on facts rather than speculation.

[lucasmascotto]

Glen Murray's tough LRT talk snags him invite to city hall
CBC News: Hamilton

After publicly challenging Hamilton decision-makers to meet with him to discuss the future of rapid transit in the city, Glen Murray is getting his wish.

Councillors on the city’s general issues committee voted Wednesday to invite Ontario’s transportation minister for a question-and-answer session in council chambers on a funding partnership for a planned light-rail transit line for the city.

On Tuesday, a day after Premier Kathleen Wynne announced a plan to fund $15 billion in public transit projects in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA), Murray urged Hamilton councillors and Mayor Bob Bratina to meet with him to work out a deal.

"I need something a little more clear from Hamilton City Council than, ‘Pay for it all,' " Murray said on CHML’s Bill Kelly Show.

He suggested the city could put “skin in the game” without having to dip into property tax revenues to raise money.

“We need to sit down and give the people in Hamilton the kind of creative leadership to solve these problems without putting any great burden on them,” he said. “I need that process to start soon and I need these meetings to start happening soon so we can do a deal.”

On Wednesday, councillors on the city’s general issues committee said they’re frustrated at the suggestion that the city has been lagging on the transit file.

Council vote

More than one mentioned that council voted in February 2013 to tell the province that Hamilton wants an 14-kilometre LRT line along the B-line corridor — which runs King Street from McMaster University to Eastgate Square — under the condition that the province pick up 100 per cent of the estimated $800 million in capital costs.

“It is kind of unusual to hear minister of transportation telling us to roll up our sleeves and put the coffee pot on to work this out,” said Ward 2 Coun. Jason Farr.

And Ward 4 Coun. Sam Merulla said it would be “incredibly delusional” to think that it’s council’s fault that a deal hasn’t been reached on LRT.

However, interim Ward 3 Coun. Bob Morrow, who is filling the post until the next in the wake of the death of Bernie Morelli, offered a “slightly different take” on Murray’s comments.

“I think we should welcome the minister’s initiative and respond accordingly,” he said. “He’s inviting us to take part in discussions. I think we should do that.”

Ultimately, councillors voted unanimously to ask Murray to defend his position in council and also to invite Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig to meet with city managers to discuss funding options.

Budget announcement

The province is set to announce in its spring budget how it plans to pay for a slate $29-million slate of transit and transportation projects. Wynne has said the funding tools won’t include a hike in the gas tax or an increase in income taxes for low-and-middle-income earners.

Supporting documents for Wynne's announcement say rapid transit in Hamilton is one of the next major projects that the province is looking to fund. Those documents talk about "rapid transit" and not specifically LRT, leaving some confusion about the province's intentions for Hamilton. However, some councillors said they believe it’s unlikely Queen’s Park will pay for the full cost of an LRT line — leading some to push for a cheaper bus-rapid transit option.

“We have to manage our expectations," Stoney Creek councillor and mayoral hopeful Brad Clark said earlier this week.

"Premier Wynne has realized that her predecessor over-promised and she's doing what she can with a finite amount of money."

[thistleclub]

Transport minister spins pure blarney on LRT
(Hamilton Spectator, Andrew Dreschel, Apr 21 2014)

"Delusional" and "nonsensical" and "moronic."

Councillor Sam Merulla's response to Transportation Minister Glen Murray's comments about council's stance on light rail transit won't win any awards for diplomacy.

But it's a welcome corrective to the propaganda Murray was serving up on CHML's Bill Kelly Show last week.

To be fair, Murray is an affable yapper by any measure. So it's not entirely clear if he was garrulously pushing the Liberal party line or was simply carried away by his own fast-talk. Either way, much of what he had to say was pure blarney.

In essence, Murray claimed the province has been looking to sit down with council to lock in a funding partnership for either an $800-million LRT system or BRT, a bus rapid transit system with an estimated $260-million pricetag.

Murray said the province wants to close the deal but council isn't helping.

"I need something a little more clear from Hamilton city council than 'Pay for it all,'" he said, referring to council's request that the province pick up 100 per cent of LRT's capital cost without any taxes, fees or charges to Hamiltonians.

Murray went on to say he's "pressing so hard" for an agreement so the city can enjoy an economic development bounce.

If Murray has been pressing hard, it's with the force and effect of a marshmallow. According to city officials, not council, senior staff or the mayor's office has received a single request from Murray or his minions for a sit down to discuss rapid transit.

Worse, what Murray neglected to say is the province still hasn't formally responded to the city's official position on 100 per cent funding. Council unanimously staked that out in February, 2013, more than a year ago. It reaffirmed it in May, 2013, though Russ Powers broke ranks and voted against. On both occasions a copy of the resolution was sent to Murray.

His only response has been silence. Yes, Murray and other provincial officials have frequently been quoted in the media about the need for new revenue streams to bankroll the next wave of GTHA transit projects. But the province has never formally responded to Hamilton as one government to another.

Whether the province's failure to say yea or nay is the result of political cowardice or condescension, the result is the same: LRT is in limbo. Why would council have a debate about possibly contributing to the project when Murray has neither replied nor asked for a meeting?

Read it in full here.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Hey, regardless of whether or not there's any news happening, you've still gotta write a story, right? Not easy being an ink-stained wretch.

[thistleclub]

Graeme McKay makes light of the situation while Minister Murray tweets:

If #HamOnt wants a BRT or LRT, that is up to them. Mlx has made commitments to #HamOnt. That is their job. It is not mine.

Ambiguity has dogged this file almost from the outset. Council has supported LRT, but attached notable conditions with regard to funding. The mayor has failed to advocate for the city’s Rapid Ready plan (and even done a two-step of his own on occasion), and the province has been less than clear or consistent, forever hedging and pivoting.

June 15, 2007’s “Two rapid transit lines across Hamilton” -- “east-west rapid transit on King/Main Streets from Eastgate Mall to McMaster University; north-south rapid transit on James/Upper James Streets from Rymal Road to King Street” -- was upgraded three months later to “two light rail lines across Hamilton.” But by April 2009, this was de-escalated to “potential rapid transit on two corridors in Hamilton”, a position that a little over a year ago was once again being described generically as rapid transit, allegedly “because studies have not yet landed on a preferred technology.” That fluidity was still evident as recently as February of this year.

Metrolinx has indicated that “$1 billion for this project will be funded through the Investment Strategy,” but of course “Investment Strategy” is an abstract term because it remains hypothetical. There is technically no funding commitment in place. Even the teaser solution offered by the province a week or so ago only generated $15 billion in total, roughly half of what will be required to complete The Big Move, and even those measures will be contingent upon (a) the measures appearing in the budget; (b) the budget being passed; and (c) the government following through on its word. In last year’s budget speech, government announced that in service of the Big Move it would be expediting the conversion of select high-occupancy vehicle lanes into high-occupancy toll lanes. And last week they recommitted themselves to that May 2013 action item, along with the Oct 2013 “green bonds” proposal (details TBD). Will 2014 be another lost year?

[thistleclub]

Elsewhere, Will LRT change the way Ottawa works? (The Globe & Mail, Josh O'Kane, Apr 21 2014)

[Dr Awesomesauce]

There will almost assuredly be a new mayor on the throne later this year but I wonder if it will be too late to mend this relationship.

[thistleclub]

Via CBC Hamilton:

Keanin Loomis, president and CEO of Hamilton Chamber of Commerce, brought his business expertise to the table and advocated for downtown renewal....

He also weighed in on the precarious future of Hamilton's light-rail transit and said Hamiltonians need to be prepared if the LRT proposal falls through.

While a plan B is needed, Loomis said that downtown Hamilton doesn't need an LRT to realize its potential.

“Our streets have that latent potential to provide that vibrancy we need,” he said. “All we have to do is to bring the balance to our downtown, and that's where our greatest economic development opportunities are.”


Things were framed somewhat differently in September 2013.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

There will almost assuredly be a new mayor on the throne later this year but I wonder if it will be too late to mend this relationship.

So long as the provincial parties keep doing their dance, I think there's time. It helps that Bratina has grown very silent recently. If Murray does pay council a visit for a frank discussion, I think it will clear up quite a lot or lay some groundwork for more talking (at least until councillors start mucking about with messaging during the run-up to the election)

I think this Liberal commitment to transit investment is going to get a rough ride anyway, even if the remainder of the funding behind it is sensible (assuming there actually is a plan for that in the budget, as they said). I can't imagine it will move ahead that quickly, but it would be smart for the city to keep a dialogue open with the province even just at the staff level. Not going to hold my breath over that though, given the history of this file.

[thistleclub]

Rob MacIsaac makes a cameo in Andrew Dreschel's column in today's Spectator:

Fresh from blaming city council for dragging its feet on light trail transit, Ontario's transportation minister has now fingered former Metrolinx chair Rob MacIsaac as the guy who promised 100 per cent funding to Hamilton.

Murray claimed MacIsaac was behind the controversial commitment in a Saturday Twitter conversation with a Hamilton resident....

MacIsaac, now president and CEO of Hamilton Health Sciences, never said any such thing. Quite the opposite, in fact.

MacIsaac, who saw Murray's tweet, contents himself with a mild email response:

"The Spectator has me on record from an ed board meeting years ago saying that Hamilton should be setting aside some money for LRT. At the time, I saw it as a prudent action and, in retrospect, was probably goodadvice."

He's correct. As chair of Metrolinx from 2006 to the end of 2008, MacIsaac did tell the paper's editorial board in the fall of 2008 that the agency would only be funding "bare bones" rapid transit lines and that Hamilton should be putting money away for capital upgrades.

[thistleclub]

Ontario NDP leader Andrea Horwath tackles transit in an open letter to Premier Wynne. Of particular interest to locals, she writes:

I am committed to the Big Move. Projects like light rail lines in Brampton, Mississauga, Hamilton, and along the Finch and Sheppard corridors need committed funding. But we will need to prioritize.

[SteelTown]

Jason Thorne is the new General Manager of Planning, replaces Tim McCade. Jason was Metrolinx's Director of Transportation Policy and Planning.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^That seems like a smart move.

Re Murray/ MacIssac/ City Council

Does anybody actually pick up the phone and have a conversation these days? I find it fascinating that grown men and women are content to tweet and instant message rather than engage in real dialogue. This is an affliction that's sweeping the world unfortunately.

Pick up the phone! Drop by for a chat! Be an adult for God's sake!

[thistleclub]

Task force opens door to LRT funding from city sources
(Hamilton Spectator, Matthew van Dongen, Apr 23 2014)

Two councillors and a local business task force say they're willing to use city cash to build the $800-million LRT line if the province won't cover the entire tab.

An LRT task force created by members of the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce passed a motion Wednesday requesting 100 per cent provincial funding for a light-rail line from McMaster University to Eastgate Square.

But the motion goes on to say if a municipal contribution is required, the province should front-end the capital costs and allow the city to use "alternative funding strategies" for its portion.

Chamber head Keanin Loomis said the emergency meeting and resulting motion were needed to "show leadership" on LRT ahead of the early-May provincial budget....

The task force motion will be forwarded immediately to the provincial government, Loomis said.

Read it in full here.