[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

There was a guy on CBC radio this morning advocating new construction in cities and higher density to help draw new people to the city as older buildings tend to cost more than high density newer ones.

As I've mentioned before, that's my one major issue with the NC. I'd much rather see the office tower used for residential space, the last thing downtown Halifax needs atm is even more commercial vacancy.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

As I've mentioned before, that's my one major issue with the NC. I'd much rather see the office tower used for residential space, the last thing downtown Halifax needs atm is even more commercial vacancy.

I don't agree...bringing in a few thousand financial service jobs seems much more beneificial to me.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I wonder if it is possible to calculate how many companies have not expanded to Halifax due to a lack of coherent Class A office space.

Sure the vacancy rate is high right now, but it might be for a number of small spaces instead of the type of space a larger company would look to lease.

I think downtown needs office + residential + retail to be healthy.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I wonder if it is possible to calculate how many companies have not expanded to Halifax due to a lack of coherent Class A office space.

Sure the vacancy rate is high right now, but it might be for a number of small spaces instead of the type of space a larger company would look to lease.

I think downtown needs office + residential + retail to be healthy.

Joe Ramia has said he has commitment from fincancial service companies to move into the financial service centre. He said if he wouldn't be building it if he didn't. I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of class A office space that has kept companies away.

I agree I think the downtown needs office + residential + retail to be healthy

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Joe Ramia has said he has commitment from fincancial service companies to move into the financial service centre. He said if he wouldn't be building it if he didn't. I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of class A office space that has kept companies away.

I agree I think the downtown needs office + residential + retail to be healthy

The lack of space is not an issue, the issue is these companies are not looking here like they were prior to 2007-2008 financial sector melt down. Will that change with time, maybe, but i would be very "surprised" that only one developer has these tenants all willing to sign up. With organizations of their stature they would require their respective brokers to at least complete a market anaylsis and look to make offers on multiple premises in order to achieve the best deal. This is industry norm.

If there was a storage, and if there was such "demand" a number of the approved developments, International Place, Waterside Centre, TD expansion, existing buildings like Purdys, 1801, Founders Square etc would be well have equally competitive offerings. Who can't say that International Place would create the same atmosphere as say Nova Centre with its connection to Scotia Square, Hotels, and existing and established commercial buildings?

I agree completey with the comments that the Nova Centre site should be residential instead of office. I've been a long supporter of this site being that as it will do more for the CBD then the actual convention centre ever will. The centre will only provide spikes in activity, where as people living and working within the CBD will be more steady, allowing companies to make sound business plans/investment. A retail sector dependant upon tourism and or event spin off will not create a decent mix of retail tenature as the business case will be to unpredictable to make a sound decision on the required investment. Like many nationals retailers this board talks about being ideal for the Spring Garden Road area, many of them won't invest there as the costs do not justify the investment as there is no enough required "residential" density to support their business case.

[Haliguy]

[QUOTE=sdm;5185081]The lack of space is not an issue, the issue is these companies are not looking here like they were prior to 2007-2008 financial sector melt down. Will that change with time, maybe, but i would be very "surprised" that only one developer has these tenants all willing to sign up. With organizations of their stature they would require their respective brokers to at least complete a market anaylsis and look to make offers on multiple premises in order to achieve the best deal. This is industry norm.

If there was a storage, and if there was such "demand" a number of the approved developments, International Place, Waterside Centre, TD expansion, existing buildings like Purdys, 1801, Founders Square etc would be well have equally competitive offerings. Who can't say that International Place would create the same atmosphere as say Nova Centre with its connection to Scotia Square, Hotels, and existing and established commercial buildings?

QUOTE]

and as Joe has said why would he build a financial centre if he doesn't have commitment for tenants.

[someone123]

In the past many developers have claimed to have interested office tenants who later didn't materialize. This was true of International Place, maybe Waterside Centre...

[sdm]

[QUOTE=Haliguy;5185114]

Originally Posted by sdm

The lack of space is not an issue, the issue is these companies are not looking here like they were prior to 2007-2008 financial sector melt down. Will that change with time, maybe, but i would be very "surprised" that only one developer has these tenants all willing to sign up. With organizations of their stature they would require their respective brokers to at least complete a market anaylsis and look to make offers on multiple premises in order to achieve the best deal. This is industry norm.

If there was a storage, and if there was such "demand" a number of the approved developments, International Place, Waterside Centre, TD expansion, existing buildings like Purdys, 1801, Founders Square etc would be well have equally competitive offerings. Who can't say that International Place would create the same atmosphere as say Nova Centre with its connection to Scotia Square, Hotels, and existing and established commercial buildings?

QUOTE]

and as Joe has said why would he build a financial centre if he doesn't have commitment for tenants.

Remember, during council he stated that if the demand for the office isn't there then he will switch the remaining amount to residential. So whats that mean?

[halifaxboyns]

This argument is about so many different 'what if' scenarios - no one really can say for certain what's going to happen. Mr. Ramia, in his presentation, was being prudent to his role. If he has committments (which I'm assuming are in the forms of memorandums of understanding (MOUs)) okay, but that's no guarentee. People can easily get out of those. The fact he acknowledged that he'd switch the commercial component to residential is reasonable, it's a good fall back.

I can't see any city being happy with a downtown vacancy rate in the double digits, unless it's Calgary because with the improving economy out here the feeling is that the rate won't stay in double digits for long. But that's not the same feeling in HRM. Look at Barrington Tower; it's going to empty out soon once NSP moves. That's a huge amount of office space, added to the existing vacancies.

Personally, unless I owned a lot of businesses that wanted to be in downtown, you wouldn't catch me building commercial right now. Granted, since I don't have a spare $500 mill in my back pocket that's not a worry!

Residential is probably the best way to go for now and then as the economic picture improves, it will start to change.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

This argument is about so many different 'what if' scenarios - no one really can say for certain what's going to happen. Mr. Ramia, in his presentation, was being prudent to his role. If he has committments (which I'm assuming are in the forms of memorandums of understanding (MOUs)) okay, but that's no guarentee. People can easily get out of those. The fact he acknowledged that he'd switch the commercial component to residential is reasonable, it's a good fall back.

I can't see any city being happy with a downtown vacancy rate in the double digits, unless it's Calgary because with the improving economy out here the feeling is that the rate won't stay in double digits for long. But that's not the same feeling in HRM. Look at Barrington Tower; it's going to empty out soon once NSP moves. That's a huge amount of office space, added to the existing vacancies.

Personally, unless I owned a lot of businesses that wanted to be in downtown, you wouldn't catch me building commercial right now. Granted, since I don't have a spare $500 mill in my back pocket that's not a worry!

Residential is probably the best way to go for now and then as the economic picture improves, it will start to change.

Very well said.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I know you think everything is impossible sdm, but you neglect to show me any evidence of how a fs company of moderate size wouldn't demand more office space than a piecemeal offering in halifax's current market (nobody wants a bunch of small decentralized offices in different buildings because one high quality building cannot meet the whole demand).

The size of some financial institutions that aren't even in halifax is on a large scale.

We have a wage advantage over anybody, I don't care about the CDN dollar because people get paid 2x as much in ontario for the same job.

Viva la Nova Scotia! Lets get some HQ space and some HQ clients and stop being debbie downers.

[Haliguy]

Companies can always back out...however if it does proceed as a fincancial centre you can be sure he has tenants.

If you look at other commercial developments he has built such as the office tower at the old Zellers location on Bayers Rd that tower was pretty much built for Admiral Insurance who he had brought here from the UK to setup shop here.

I really don't think he would be building a financial centre unless he had pretty strong commitments from companies who want to come here.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Companies can always back out...however if it does proceed as a fincancial centre you can be sure he has tenants.

If you look at other commercial developments he has built such as the office tower at the old Zellers location on Bayers Rd that tower was pretty much built for Admiral Insurance who he had brought here from the UK to setup shop here.

I really don't think he would be building a financial centre unless he had pretty strong commitments from companies who want to come here.

Your facts are incorrect with regards to Admiral insurance. NSBI brought them here, not the developer, and second the market place had opportunities to submit offers to admiral for their premises requirements, of which this developer won.

Just so everyone can understand, the companies that are looking to come here aren't head quarters, they are back of house services with no front line executive staff, which is fine but its not like Chase Bank is going to move its head quarters to Halifax.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I know you think everything is impossible sdm, but you neglect to show me any evidence of how a fs company of moderate size wouldn't demand more office space than a piecemeal offering in halifax's current market (nobody wants a bunch of small decentralized offices in different buildings because one high quality building cannot meet the whole demand).

The size of some financial institutions that aren't even in halifax is on a large scale.

We have a wage advantage over anybody, I don't care about the CDN dollar because people get paid 2x as much in ontario for the same job.

Viva la Nova Scotia! Lets get some HQ space and some HQ clients and stop being debbie downers.

You can put easily 35,000 - 50,000 square feet of contigious space together downtown in buildings like Purdys, 1801, Founders, etc.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by sdm

Your facts are incorrect with regards to Admiral insurance. NSBI brought them here, not the developer, and second the market place had opportunities to submit offers to admiral for their premises requirements, of which this developer won.

Just so everyone can understand, the companies that are looking to come here aren't head quarters, they are back of house services with no front line executive staff, which is fine but its not like Chase Bank is going to move its head quarters to Halifax.

Yes NSBI were involved with it thats for sure.

Its neither here or there...he has committed to building the financial centre as part of the convention centre deal and he wouldn't be building it if he didn't have commitment from companies to move in... it just wouldn't make any business sense for hm to do so.

[DigitalNinja]

I have inside word from a certain financial institution that they do want to move into the office space here and have committed to it if it gets built.

[Wishblade]

Theres an article in the coast (written by none other than Tim Bousquet) that is making people believe the government has already made up its mind to not fund the convention centre. And the comments show some are even taking his word as truth. Wont they be awfully shocked if this actually gets approved. And I hope it really hurts this guys credibility. Heres the article if anybody is interested...

http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/...d-in-the-water

I also love how he says the centre requires $60 million from the feds and then later crossed it out and put it at $46 million. Talk about skewing facts for your cause or what lol.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Theres an article in the coast (written by none other than Tim Bousquet) that is making people believe the government has already made up its mind to not fund the convention centre. And the comments show some are even taking his word as truth. Wont they be awfully shocked if this actually gets approved. And I hope it really hurts this guys credibility. Heres the article if anybody is interested...

http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/...d-in-the-water

I also love how he says the centre requires $60 million from the feds and then later crossed it out and put it at $46 million. Talk about skewing facts for your cause or what lol.

Yeah, its a large jump to say its dead in the water when its still undergoing approval, unlike those other projects that were already approved for their events.

[CorbeauNoir]

The Coast is a fantastic restaurant/entertainment/local buisness resource but if they could harvest the energy from my facepalming at their news and opinion segments nobody in this city would pay a power bill ever again.

[q12]

http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Ar...-March-4th2011

Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks says he's still confident the Harper government will provide the funding requested for that proposed downtown convention centre. Ottawa's being asked to contribute $46 million toward the construction cost of the Argyle Street facility. Estabrooks admits though he has no idea when the feds might make a decision on the matter. Defence Minister Peter MacKay's very public support for a Halifax sports stadium has led some to believe federal government pariticipation in the convention centre is far from a sure thing. The clock is ticking on the developer's self-imposed April deadline for an answer. Stay tuned.