Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EastK

It is still pretty amazing we allowed the south perimeter to get as bad as it it. I live in the northern part of the city but I feel really bad for anyone who has to use that "expressway" everyday. When I come back from the States I usually just cross around St Agathe and head to the 59 that way instead of going through the Nob then the perimeter just to avoid the lights and speedtraps.

The South Perimeter is a state of the art semi rural expressway... for 1959.

The only improvements made that I can think of in the last 50+ years since the South Perimeter was fully twinned and paved are the interchanges built at Roblin and Lagimodiere sometime around 1980, give or take a few years. That's it. Everything else has either stayed the same (at-grade intersections, 2 lanes only) or gotten worse (traffic lights).

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by esquire

The South Perimeter is a state of the art semi rural expressway... for 1959.

Have to agree. As a youngster I landscaped, 1st pre-construction job I was involved in, the late 90's..the Clover-Leafs at Roblin...a few others around the perimeter as well.

Apparently it's been so long on some of these infrastructure projects they're thinking of adding the Roblin Interchange work I did to a "heritage protected area designation"..

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

The South Perimeter is a state of the art semi rural expressway... for 1959.

The only improvements made that I can think of in the last 50+ years since the South Perimeter was fully twinned and paved are the interchanges built at Roblin and Lagimodiere sometime around 1980, give or take a few years. That's it. Everything else has either stayed the same (at-grade intersections, 2 lanes only) or gotten worse (traffic lights).

ROFLMAO! You may be off ten years on the 1959 comment though, go back ten more years, 1949 is more like it!

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by esquire

The only improvements made that I can think of in the last 50+ years since the South Perimeter was fully twinned and paved are the interchanges built at Roblin and Lagimodiere sometime around 1980, give or take a few years. That's it. Everything else has either stayed the same (at-grade intersections, 2 lanes only) or gotten worse (traffic lights).

The grade-separated interchange at Roblin Blvd. was there in '75 when Unicity Mall opened.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by esquire

The South Perimeter is a state of the art semi rural expressway... for 1959.

It is sad that this is accurate

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

It is sad that this is accurate

Makes you wonder what the hell our civic politicians and city planning dept. have been doing for the past 50 years!

Have these people not ventured outside the perimeter to see what's happening in the rest of the world?

[esquire]

^ The state of the Perimeter is squarely on the province... it's their road.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The state of the Perimeter is squarely on the province... it's their road.

I wonder why the province doesn't consider following Regina's lead and go with a P3 to fully upgrade the south perimeter. If I am correct it would require 5 new interchanges, and construction of new lanes to interstate standard median widths. I would strongly suggest to toss in the 15/101 intersection while they're at it. What would the cost be approx? $1 billion for the interchanges and another $1 billion for the highway construction?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Reignman

I wonder why the province doesn't consider following Regina's lead and go with a P3 to fully upgrade the south perimeter. If I am correct it would require 5 new interchanges, and construction of new lanes to interstate standard median widths. I would strongly suggest to toss in the 15/101 intersection while they're at it. What would the cost be approx? $1 billion for the interchanges and another $1 billion for the highway construction?

There's a lot of work that would need to be done to fully modernize the Perimeter.

Definitely interchanges at:

100/3
100/330
100/Route 90
100/St. Mary's Road
100/St. Anne's Road

Probably interchanges/grade separations eventually at:

100/2
100/Brady Road
100/CP tracks near Lagimodiere

Rebuilds of outdated interchanges with poor design and geometry:

100/Pembina
100/Wilkes Avenue

The lanes need to be rebuilt with wider widths and ideally, a barrier between the EB/WB lanes. The stretch from Lagimodiere to Portage is one of the busiest stretches of highway in Manitoba and should probably be 6 lanes.

That's all going to cost more than $2 billion, and that's just to bring it up to basic modern expressway standards.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

There's a lot of work that would need to be done to fully modernize the Perimeter.

Definitely interchanges at:

100/3
100/330
100/Route 90
100/St. Mary's Road
100/St. Anne's Road

Probably interchanges/grade separations eventually at:

100/2
100/Brady Road
100/CP tracks near Lagimodiere

Rebuilds of outdated interchanges with poor design and geometry:

100/Pembina
100/Wilkes Avenue

The lanes need to be rebuilt with wider widths and ideally, a barrier between the EB/WB lanes. The stretch from Lagimodiere to Portage is one of the busiest stretches of highway in Manitoba and should probably be 6 lanes.

That's all going to cost more than $2 billion, and that's just to bring it up to basic modern expressway standards.

Six lane roadways seem lost on civic and provincial planners in this province, yeah just leave six lane roadways up to cities like Fargo, Regina and Saskatoon!

[MG922]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Six lane roadways seem lost on civic and provincial planners in this province, yeah just leave six lane roadways up to cities like Fargo, Regina and Saskatoon!

There's already some preliminary planning being done for expanding the west perimeter to 6 lanes. From Portage south to either Kenaston or pembina, can't recall. It would require a new SB bridge over the assiniboine, and use the existing for NB traffic. But that is long term planning. Like multiple decade long term.

I would imagine that those plans would account for potential interchanges at 2, 3, 330, and kenaston

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MG922

There's already some preliminary planning being done for expanding the west perimeter to 6 lanes. From Portage south to either Kenaston or pembina, can't recall. It would require a new SB bridge over the assiniboine, and use the existing for NB traffic. But that is long term planning. Like multiple decade long term.

I would imagine that those plans would account for potential interchanges at 2, 3, 330, and kenaston

I'm pretty sure that the action at 101/59 involves expanding 59 north to 6 lanes up to at least Birds Hill Road, possibly even farther north (Garven Road?). That short segment will be, to my knowledge, Manitoba's very first stretch of bona fide 6 lane highway.

Perhaps its opening will coincide with Manitoba's very first diamond interchange which is planned for 100/3? What a time to be alive!

[EastK]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm pretty sure that the action at 101/59 involves expanding 59 north to 6 lanes up to at least Birds Hill Road, possibly even farther north (Garven Road?). That short segment will be, to my knowledge, Manitoba's very first stretch of bona fide 6 lane highway.

Perhaps its opening will coincide with Manitoba's very first diamond interchange which is planned for 100/3? What a time to be alive!

Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade most of the north perimeter to 6 lanes too? Traffic is already pretty heavy there although at least there are almost no lights.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EastK

Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade most of the north perimeter to 6 lanes too? Traffic is already pretty heavy there although at least there are almost no lights.

Yeah, I think the stretch from Lagimodiere to McPhillips and possibly even as far as Route 90 is busier than anything on the south Perimeter. It should be 6 lanes too.

[MG922]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, I think the stretch from Lagimodiere to McPhillips and possibly even as far as Route 90 is busier than anything on the south Perimeter. It should be 6 lanes too.

Oh, i agree it should all be 6 lanes. But a 4 lane road has quite a lot of capacity, IF there's no intersections. It's the lights that screw with traffic capacity, and the north Perimeter has barely any lights.

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm pretty sure that the action at 101/59 involves expanding 59 north to 6 lanes up to at least Birds Hill Road, possibly even farther north (Garven Road?). That short segment will be, to my knowledge, Manitoba's very first stretch of bona fide 6 lane highway.

I think you're right that it will be 6 lanes through there, but I doubt it would go all the way to Garven. That would require some significant work to the bridge over the floodway. Most likely back to 4 lanes after the bird's hill intersection.

[YWG-RO]

MIT had the opportunity to place a diamond interchange at 59N/202 and chose not to despite all the work being done at 59N/101. Perhaps another $30 M? It won't happen now until 2040, if ever.

Do you really think we'll see six new interchanges, rebuild of 2 others, and six lanes on 100?

I don't see either 100 or 101 as controlled access for another 25 years. IMO, 6 lanes is unnecessary. Ban all at grade crossings first, 4 lanes is adequate capacity with proper storage lanes.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

MIT had the opportunity to place a diamond interchange at 59N/202 and chose not to despite all the work being done at 59N/101. Perhaps another $30 M? It won't happen now until 2040, if ever.

Do you really think we'll see six new interchanges, rebuild of 2 others, and six lanes on 100?

Maybe not all of that, but were talking about trade corridors, rather than cabin corridors.

[jmt18325]

The road to the town I live in is being turned back to gravel. Yay.

[YWG-RO]

Of interest, 59N is the second busiest highway segment at 23,180 only surpassed by 101 between 8 and 9 at 24,980. Highway 101 between 7 and 59 has much higher traffic counts than 100 (over 25% higher).

Highway 1 / 12 (Steinbach turn off) has 20,000 movements and got a controlled interchange (cloverleaf) in the mid 80s. 59N / 202 has 30,000 movements, similar to 100 and Roblin Blvd interchange and 101 / 7. For comparison, 100 / 3 has 25,000 and 101 / 15 about 22,000. Both of these are signaled.

59N may be a cottage corridor to some, but it's busy and stats indicate that 59N / 202 deserved a grade separated diamond interchange.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by YWG-RO

Of interest, 59N is the second busiest highway segment at 23,180 only surpassed by 101 between 8 and 9 at 24,980. Highway 101 between 7 and 59 has much higher traffic counts than 100 (over 25% higher).

Highway 1 / 12 (Steinbach turn off) has 20,000 movements and got a controlled interchange (cloverleaf) in the mid 80s. 59N / 202 has 30,000 movements, similar to 100 and Roblin Blvd interchange and 101 / 7. For comparison, 100 / 3 has 25,000 and 101 / 15 about 22,000. Both of these are signaled.

59N may be a cottage corridor to some, but it's busy and stats indicate that 59N / 202 deserved a grade separated diamond interchange.

I don't disagree with you - I'm simply telling you the logic at the Province when it comes to interchange priority.